Is 5w20 Dexos becoming obsolete?

Joined
Jan 5, 2023
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Exton PA
Below is a list of the full syn oils that I have used over the last few years in my various cars for oil changes. This thread conversation is not about oil changes, it's not about which oil is better, or which to use, not is it about how long of a change interval is used. This thread is an observation. I want to start a conversation and opinion, and maybe some facts if someone knows more than me about these oils, as they are advertised.
  • Castrol GTX (White jug)
  • Mobil 1
  • Castrol Edge (Black Jug)
  • Valvoline Advanced
All of these oils are GF-6 or GF-6a, but I recently noticed that the 5w20 viscosity is not Dexos approved. However, they are Dexos approved for 5w-30 and 0w-20. Makes me wonder why?
  • Is 5w-20 becoming an obsolete oil viscosity? (I don't think so)
  • Is there something inherently incompatible with 5w-20 viscosity oil and the Dexos spec? (I doubt it)
  • Did all three of these oil makers collude to not get approval, in order to save on GM licensing costs? (a conspiracy maybe??)
  • Some other reason? (your guess is as good as mine)
 
@KingGeorge, I can't answer any of your questions but I can tell you that attempting to limit the colonials of BITOG what they discuss or not is tantamount to herding cats.

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SOPUS is pushing all 5W-20 users towards 0W-20 in QSUD/PP flavors and even states “same protection as 5W-20” on the labels. AFAIK, GTX white bottle never got dexos certs. At one point in time, MaxLife blend was D1 certified but when D1G2 was a thing, no more. It looks like an oil must be formulated from GIII base oil to qualify for D1G2/3.

From what I understand, D1 specs build on GF-6 and API SM/SN/SP and D2/DR/DD builds on ACEA C3/C5. GM has a 3rd party do the certification tests. My assumption for the 0W-20 D1 push and the “phasing out” of 5W-20 now that Honda/Toyota/Mopar says 0W-20 can be used for service and only Ford seems to the standout is inventory consolidation. The add pack is the same. 0W-20 needs a touch more VII than 5W-20 which is negligible on the production line.
 
It’s been discussed before; I think the jist of the reason is that GM doesn’t spec 5w20 in anything, or has retroactively discontinued any mention of it in favor of 0w20s and therefore doesn’t really encourage 5w20s. That, combined with the fact that oil manufacturers have to pay for every quart with a dexos cert means they’re not going to license anything more than they have to. 0w20 is interchangeable with any 5w20, so GM gets licensed what they want and oil makers keep a little cash.

Maybe @Foxtrot08 or somebody else can better tell the story if I’m mistaken.
 
It’s been discussed before; I think the jist of the reason is that GM doesn’t spec 5w20 in anything, or has retroactively discontinued any mention of it in favor of 0w20s and therefore doesn’t really encourage 5w20s. That, combined with the fact that oil manufacturers have to pay for every quart with a dexos cert means they’re not going to license anything more than they have to. 0w20 is interchangeable with any 5w20, so GM gets licensed what they want and oil makers keep a little cash.

Maybe @Foxtrot08 or somebody else can better tell the story if I’m mistaken.
Subie, I think that you are spot on. All of the modern Ecotec engines that I am are aware of specd for 5w30.
 
Subie, I think that you are spot on. All of the modern Ecotec engines that I am are aware of specd for 5w30.
I mean, if there’s nothing special about the dexos add pack, it’s certainly possible that an oil manufacturer “could” have essentially identical 0w20 and 5w20 oils, but the 5w20 license would simply be whizzing away profit since no GM calls solely for a 5w20 these days. It’s also certainly possible that the 5w20 add pack would be completely different since it’s not a licensed product. Only insiders know for sure. If you want a dexos 20wt, though, 0w20s your only choice. 👍🏻
 
It’s been discussed before; I think the jist of the reason is that GM doesn’t spec 5w20 in anything, or has retroactively discontinued any mention of it in favor of 0w20s and therefore doesn’t really encourage 5w20s. That, combined with the fact that oil manufacturers have to pay for every quart with a dexos cert means they’re not going to license anything more than they have to. 0w20 is interchangeable with any 5w20, so GM gets licensed what they want and oil makers keep a little cash.

Maybe @Foxtrot08 or somebody else can better tell the story if I’m mistaken.

Yup, basically this.

"What is the primary market for this oil?"

If it's a non-GM vehicle, there's no reason to pay for the dexos certification per-gallon.

As for GM, 0w20 / 5w20 - Dexos 5w20 fell out of flavor at the G1 / G2 split. GM Openly says to use 0w20 and I've had that argument of 5w20/0w20 on this forum before... I care not to repeat at the present moment.

Chances are are the products listed are used in an OEM situation that is price competitive, where there is no reason to pay the Dexos licensing fee. Or their primary market is non-dexos vehicles in the aftermarket fill situation. Example of this is P66 Shield Armor vs the P66 Shield Valor. Armor is not D1G3, Valor is. Armor is primarily sold as an OEM fill product, for non-GM vehicles.

There are 5w20 'licensed' D1G3 oils, but... Why?
... I don't want the answer to why, please.
 
... There are 5w20 'licensed' D1G3 oils, but... Why? ...
I'd suspect because the blender knows some non-GM owners would be more likely to buy it if they know it meets the tighter Dexos specs. They've probably debated internally whether that marketing advantage outweighs the licensing cost or not.

I have D1G2 QSFS 5W-20.
 
Dexos1/2 is THE BEST STANDARD to measure up! Very challenging certification! You pay to play, or your oil does not "meet" the spec.,

DexOS to motor oil as Top Tier is to Gasohol.
 
I'd suspect because the blender knows some non-GM owners would be more likely to buy it if they know it meets the tighter Dexos specs. They've probably debated internally whether that marketing advantage outweighs the licensing cost or not.

I have D1G2 QSFS 5W-20.


That is incredibly rare and probably not worth the over all marketing effort and cost, in terms of ROI.

We (a company I am an owner of) have about 20% of all D1G3 5w20 licenses out there... But I don't think we've produced D1G3 5w20 yet. And I know we don't stock/carry any of it. So just from my market sample, the ROI of producing it can't be super worth while.
 
Well-Castrol GTX white bottle is a blend, not a full synthetic (the green bottle is full, as is the Castrol Edge). I think 5W20 is mostly a Ford/Chrysler viscosity, along with Asian makes, GM really doesn’t use it a lot, GM skipped from 5W30 straight to 0W20, so Dexos certification for 5W20 doesn’t seem worth it.
 
As stated GM hasn't used 5w20 in quite some time so there really isn't a reason to have a Dexos rating for it anymore, I do believe some manufacturers were still getting it certified but the list is a very short one and most have shifted away from getting theirs certified for the stated reasons.
 
I believe 2013 and newer Malibu's with the 2.5l spec 5w20 dexos and it's the only gm engine I've personally seen spec 5w20 dexos... Our shop usually uses 0w20 being it's the only engine
 
I believe 2013 and newer Malibu's with the 2.5l spec 5w20 dexos and it's the only gm engine I've personally seen spec 5w20 dexos... Our shop usually uses 0w20 being it's the only engine
The owner's manual must strongly promote the exact grade (including winter rating) that was used to certify the vehicle for fuel economy. Therefore if 5W-20 was used for CAFE testing then that is what the manufacturer must strongly advocate. But in the end it's only a recommendation no matter how aggressively it is promoted.
 
@Passport1 @SubieRubyRoo @Wrenchturner44 @Foxtrot08 @Merek @TeeCee @kschachn
Thanks for the feedback on this topic. I think it's all starting to make sense (to me anyway) I now think that it is mostly GM's doing after doing some additional research, and have built a new opinion of my own.
  • The difference applies only to the 0w-20 and 5w-20 viscocities. (5w-30 Dexos is different)
  • I found TSB 13-00-90-002A from 2015 that covers the "replacement" of Dexos 5w-20 with Dexos 0w-20. Effectively this TSB "converts" all GM engines made since 2013 to use Dexos 0w-20, instead of the Dexos 5w-20 as originally specified.
  • For GM and their dealers, this is a nice change. They don't have to stock three oils, now they only have to stock two.
  • I looked at my own car, a 2018 GMC with the 2.5L Ecotec engine. For this car, this engine was used in model years 2017 thru 2021. On my 2018, the oil fill cap shows Dexos 5w-20. The owners manual for 2018 state that it uses Dexos 5w-20, and Dexos 0w-20 is an alternative. I found a copy of the owners manual for 2019, and it states that only Dexos 0w-20 should be used. Huh? Nothing changed between the 2018 and 2019, EXCEPT the printing of the manual! Ok, this is strange, and probably just a side effect of a large corporation like GM - The TSB took affect in Feb 2015. This engine has been around since 2013, but was first used in the 2017 model year. There was plenty of time to update the fill cap stamping and the owners manual long before the first of these cars rolled off the assembly line. But the change did not really happen until the 2019 model year. We will never know, but I would not be surprised if the first new car off the line back in 2016 was filled with 0w-20.
  • Obviously, the oil producers were aware that 5w-20 is no longer needed to be Dexos certified, and it just took a few years for production, marketing and labeling to drop the Dexos spec on the 5w-20 variants.
  • Obviously, there is no longer any value to the oil producers for the additional cost to Dexos certify the 5w-20 variants.
  • So small changes like these over a long period of time often go unnoticed. (And appear odd and thoroughly questioned by someone like me who notices.)
Ok - so this now leads to my new thoughts and opinions
  • All of these full syn oils are ILSAC-GF6 or GF6a, which we know is not the same as Dexos, but is more or less a slight subset of Dexos. Using the correct viscosity for the car, they are all good oils for any car that requires a good quality full syn oil.
  • I think that these oils of different viscosities by the same producer must be very similar in formulation and additives - So, I would not be surprised if the non-Dexos 5w-20 oil would pass the Dexos certification if it was only tested.
  • Any of these name brand, full syn, 5w-20 and 0w-20 oils are 100% interchangeable (my opinion only) Price is king. I will use whatever is available and cheapest of the bunch. My one caveat to this is that I habitually change the oil in all my family's cars every 4000 miles, and I don't live or travel to anyplace where it ever gets any where near the sub-zero, sub-freezing temp limits of these oils - so I'm running well within and before the extreme limits of these oils, thus making any functional difference between these two viscosity grades negligible.
Just want to share my thinking, and I appreciate the comments and feedback. I know my last opinion may ruffle some feathers, and that the topic of change interval and the differences between 5w-20 vs 0w-20 has been debated in other threads, so no need to debate this here.
 
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