Iridium vs Ruthenium spark plugs
- Thread starter Popsy
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Originally Posted by badtlc
I wouldn't waste the time. The iridiums will already last well over 100k MILES. At some point you are just asking for not being able to remove the plugs if you leave them in too long.
NGK uses a zinc plating on all their spark plugs. You will have no problem removing them no matter how long they are left in there
I wouldn't waste the time. The iridiums will already last well over 100k MILES. At some point you are just asking for not being able to remove the plugs if you leave them in too long.
NGK uses a zinc plating on all their spark plugs. You will have no problem removing them no matter how long they are left in there
Replaced mine yesterday. Only about 70K km on them, but I'm glad I did - lots of wear on the ground electrode on the old plugs, to the point where the gap was about 50% larger than spec. Will keep an eye on these new ones. As someone else has said, they look fragile. Time will tell.
Originally Posted by Number_35
Replaced mine yesterday. Only about 70K km on them, but I'm glad I did - lots of wear on the ground electrode on the old plugs, to the point where the gap was about 50% larger than spec. Will keep an eye on these new ones. As someone else has said, they look fragile. Time will tell.
For only 70,000 km or about 44,000 miles they seem well worn for iridium plugs. What vehicle did they come out of? Was it a Turbo DI engine?
Whimsey
Replaced mine yesterday. Only about 70K km on them, but I'm glad I did - lots of wear on the ground electrode on the old plugs, to the point where the gap was about 50% larger than spec. Will keep an eye on these new ones. As someone else has said, they look fragile. Time will tell.
For only 70,000 km or about 44,000 miles they seem well worn for iridium plugs. What vehicle did they come out of? Was it a Turbo DI engine?
Whimsey
Wow. I recently replaced the NGK iridium plugs on our Nissan Juke with a Turbo DI motor at 80k miles and they were near new. Maybe .001 larger, probably just measurement variance. The juke motor uses some 1 off NGK plugs for some reason. About $18 each but they work so I just got Nissan OEM / NGK replacements.
Originally Posted by Whimsey
Originally Posted by Number_35
Replaced mine yesterday. Only about 70K km on them, but I'm glad I did - lots of wear on the ground electrode on the old plugs, to the point where the gap was about 50% larger than spec. Will keep an eye on these new ones. As someone else has said, they look fragile. Time will tell.
For only 70,000 km or about 44,000 miles they seem well worn for iridium plugs. What vehicle did they come out of? Was it a Turbo DI engine?
Whimsey
WHY I want to replace my factory Motorcrafts in a 1.6 EB with only ~20K miles on them.
Easy enough to do on this platform, so worth 'the bother'.
Originally Posted by Number_35
Replaced mine yesterday. Only about 70K km on them, but I'm glad I did - lots of wear on the ground electrode on the old plugs, to the point where the gap was about 50% larger than spec. Will keep an eye on these new ones. As someone else has said, they look fragile. Time will tell.
For only 70,000 km or about 44,000 miles they seem well worn for iridium plugs. What vehicle did they come out of? Was it a Turbo DI engine?
Whimsey
WHY I want to replace my factory Motorcrafts in a 1.6 EB with only ~20K miles on them.
Easy enough to do on this platform, so worth 'the bother'.
Originally Posted by Whimsey
Originally Posted by Number_35
Replaced mine yesterday. Only about 70K km on them, but I'm glad I did - lots of wear on the ground electrode on the old plugs, to the point where the gap was about 50% larger than spec. Will keep an eye on these new ones. As someone else has said, they look fragile. Time will tell.
For only 70,000 km or about 44,000 miles they seem well worn for iridium plugs. What vehicle did they come out of? Was it a Turbo DI engine?
Whimsey
They're out of our '09 Mazda 5 - 2.3 litre normally-aspirated Duratech DOHC engine with 162K km (100K miles) on it. I was surprised at the wear! I think the factory originals looked a lot better when I changed them out at about 90K km (55K miles). There was no apparent wear on the factory NGK Iridiums in our '09 Kia Sedona at around 120K km (75K miles).
On the upside, it only took about 20 minutes to change all four plugs, so I'll likely do it again in 2 - 3 years. If new plugs save even 1 or 2% on fuel, and save wear and tear on the coils, it's well worth it.
Originally Posted by Number_35
Replaced mine yesterday. Only about 70K km on them, but I'm glad I did - lots of wear on the ground electrode on the old plugs, to the point where the gap was about 50% larger than spec. Will keep an eye on these new ones. As someone else has said, they look fragile. Time will tell.
For only 70,000 km or about 44,000 miles they seem well worn for iridium plugs. What vehicle did they come out of? Was it a Turbo DI engine?
Whimsey
They're out of our '09 Mazda 5 - 2.3 litre normally-aspirated Duratech DOHC engine with 162K km (100K miles) on it. I was surprised at the wear! I think the factory originals looked a lot better when I changed them out at about 90K km (55K miles). There was no apparent wear on the factory NGK Iridiums in our '09 Kia Sedona at around 120K km (75K miles).
On the upside, it only took about 20 minutes to change all four plugs, so I'll likely do it again in 2 - 3 years. If new plugs save even 1 or 2% on fuel, and save wear and tear on the coils, it's well worth it.
Originally Posted by dailydriver
Originally Posted by Whimsey
Originally Posted by Number_35
Replaced mine yesterday. Only about 70K km on them, but I'm glad I did - lots of wear on the ground electrode on the old plugs, to the point where the gap was about 50% larger than spec. Will keep an eye on these new ones. As someone else has said, they look fragile. Time will tell.
For only 70,000 km or about 44,000 miles they seem well worn for iridium plugs. What vehicle did they come out of? Was it a Turbo DI engine?
Whimsey
WHY I want to replace my factory Motorcrafts in a 1.6 EB with only ~20K miles on them.
Easy enough to do on this platform, so worth 'the bother'.
I think your 1.6 EB uses the same plug as our 2.3 EB, the Motorcraft SP-537 (CYFS-12Y-2), iridium. They do look eas(ier)
to replace. I bought a set from Rock Auto when getting other stuff, I think the Motorcraft plugs costed about $4.50 each, a bargain. We have just over 40,000 miles on the Explorer now and it runs great and the engine is smooth, but typical Ecoboost noisy outside of the vehicle and quiet inside. I'll definitely change them by late summer if there is no problem sooner. By then we should have around 46-47,000 miles on the factory plugs. I bought a one piece 10" long swivel magnetic spark plug socket from Auto Zone for ~$13. This should make changing the spark plugs in our 3 Ford OHC engines a snap.
Whimsey
Originally Posted by Whimsey
Originally Posted by Number_35
Replaced mine yesterday. Only about 70K km on them, but I'm glad I did - lots of wear on the ground electrode on the old plugs, to the point where the gap was about 50% larger than spec. Will keep an eye on these new ones. As someone else has said, they look fragile. Time will tell.
For only 70,000 km or about 44,000 miles they seem well worn for iridium plugs. What vehicle did they come out of? Was it a Turbo DI engine?
Whimsey
WHY I want to replace my factory Motorcrafts in a 1.6 EB with only ~20K miles on them.
Easy enough to do on this platform, so worth 'the bother'.
I think your 1.6 EB uses the same plug as our 2.3 EB, the Motorcraft SP-537 (CYFS-12Y-2), iridium. They do look eas(ier)
Whimsey
A friend was asking me about Ruthenium plugs yesterday, and I didn't know what to tell him. I use cheap $3 NGK V-power copper core #2238 plugs changed every 30k miles. They're easy to change, and less than $25 for 8.
Originally Posted by Number_35
They're out of our '09 Mazda 5 - 2.3 litre normally-aspirated Duratech DOHC engine with 162K km (100K miles) on it. I was surprised at the wear! I think the factory originals looked a lot better when I changed them out at about 90K km (55K miles). There was no apparent wear on the factory NGK Iridiums in our '09 Kia Sedona at around 120K km (75K miles).
On the upside, it only took about 20 minutes to change all four plugs, so I'll likely do it again in 2 - 3 years. If new plugs save even 1 or 2% on fuel, and save wear and tear on the coils, it's well worth it.
Are you putting something on the threads? They seem too dirty and NGK plugs should be installed with dry threads.
They're out of our '09 Mazda 5 - 2.3 litre normally-aspirated Duratech DOHC engine with 162K km (100K miles) on it. I was surprised at the wear! I think the factory originals looked a lot better when I changed them out at about 90K km (55K miles). There was no apparent wear on the factory NGK Iridiums in our '09 Kia Sedona at around 120K km (75K miles).
On the upside, it only took about 20 minutes to change all four plugs, so I'll likely do it again in 2 - 3 years. If new plugs save even 1 or 2% on fuel, and save wear and tear on the coils, it's well worth it.
Are you putting something on the threads? They seem too dirty and NGK plugs should be installed with dry threads.
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
Originally Posted by badtlc
I wouldn't waste the time. The iridiums will already last well over 100k MILES. At some point you are just asking for not being able to remove the plugs if you leave them in too long.
NGK uses a zinc plating on all their spark plugs. You will have no problem removing them no matter how long they are left in there
If you believe that I have a long bridge you may be interested in buying. It may take longer but under the right conditions they will seize in the head like any other.
I had them stuck in a 2.2 EJ engine, I didn't think I would get them out without loosing the heads.
Originally Posted by badtlc
I wouldn't waste the time. The iridiums will already last well over 100k MILES. At some point you are just asking for not being able to remove the plugs if you leave them in too long.
NGK uses a zinc plating on all their spark plugs. You will have no problem removing them no matter how long they are left in there
If you believe that I have a long bridge you may be interested in buying. It may take longer but under the right conditions they will seize in the head like any other.
I had them stuck in a 2.2 EJ engine, I didn't think I would get them out without loosing the heads.
These are the original double iridium plugs at 160,000 from my 06 2.2 litre ecotec. They came out easy and the new Delco replacement plugs come with an anti seize coating on the threads so in they went. You can see every second plug is worn in reverse. This is a waste spark ignition system. Two of them have erosion on the centre electrode and two have the side electrode eroded. Double iridium plugs have iridium tips on both electrodes for this reason.The spark tends to carry some of the base metal with it as it jumps. The gap had widened to twice the factory spec as they continued to work fine. Plugs seem to last forever these days. In my opinion many people seem to over maintain their vehicles. Advertising works.
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2019/05/full-66107-32312-sdc11655.jpg "[Linked Image]")
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Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
Originally Posted by badtlc
I wouldn't waste the time. The iridiums will already last well over 100k MILES. At some point you are just asking for not being able to remove the plugs if you leave them in too long.
NGK uses a zinc plating on all their spark plugs. You will have no problem removing them no matter how long they are left in there
If you believe that I have a long bridge you may be interested in buying. It may take longer but under the right conditions they will seize in the head like any other.
I had them stuck in a 2.2 EJ engine, I didn't think I would get them out without loosing the heads.
Yes, I always put a dab of anti-seize compound on spark plug threads, even NGKs. I don't see any downside. I have encountered a few seized plugs, and don't want it to happen with any plugs I've installed.
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
Originally Posted by badtlc
I wouldn't waste the time. The iridiums will already last well over 100k MILES. At some point you are just asking for not being able to remove the plugs if you leave them in too long.
NGK uses a zinc plating on all their spark plugs. You will have no problem removing them no matter how long they are left in there
If you believe that I have a long bridge you may be interested in buying. It may take longer but under the right conditions they will seize in the head like any other.
I had them stuck in a 2.2 EJ engine, I didn't think I would get them out without loosing the heads.
Yes, I always put a dab of anti-seize compound on spark plug threads, even NGKs. I don't see any downside. I have encountered a few seized plugs, and don't want it to happen with any plugs I've installed.
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
[NGK uses a zinc plating on all their spark plugs. You will have no problem removing them no matter how long they are left in there
Just yesterday morning I spent about 5 minutes SLOWLY working a NGK plug back and forth about 1/4 turn to get it out. I first identified it as being "stuck" about 3 months ago and just came back to work on it now. It had been in service about 2.5 years and less than 15k miles.
Don't count me as one to believe there will be no trouble removing a NGK plug.
[NGK uses a zinc plating on all their spark plugs. You will have no problem removing them no matter how long they are left in there
Just yesterday morning I spent about 5 minutes SLOWLY working a NGK plug back and forth about 1/4 turn to get it out. I first identified it as being "stuck" about 3 months ago and just came back to work on it now. It had been in service about 2.5 years and less than 15k miles.
Don't count me as one to believe there will be no trouble removing a NGK plug.
Originally Posted by Popsy
So, spark plug replacement time for the Mazda (2.3 engine).
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2019/04/full-69489-32036-b9283031_9de3_4e22_b900_54772a16129c.jpeg "[Linked Image]")
On the right, standard iridium that are OE on the car.
Price is identical, actually the Ruthenium are a few cents cheaper, but that's negligible.
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2019/04/full-69489-32037-44244c81_8f61_4c1d_8843_28ef46dd6597.jpeg "[Linked Image]")
Gap is the same, form factor too. I always thought the Laser iridium meant double iridium electrodes, but now that I look closely I can only see one ?
Not sure about the replacement interval, but it's a very long thing like 100k Km.
Ruthenium seem to have two visible pointy electrodes of whatever fancy metal they are advertised.
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2019/04/full-69489-32038-facaff76_ae90_49d2_b768_eeea0663c83d.jpeg "[Linked Image]")
There is little I can find about Ruthenium spark plugs, except it's the new sliced bread, better, last longer, etc etc.
If the Laser iridium have indeed only one iridium (or platinium + iridium) pointy electrode, I can see the Ruthenium lasting longer.
So, what's your take ? Can you educate me on spark plugs ? On most 4 cylinder they are real easy to replace so I always them as a maintenance item, replace every few years and don't think twice about it.
All of the NGK Laser series have a platinum wear disc on the ground electrode.
I considered the Ruthenium for my car, but they don't come in the correct gap. NGK says I Need to regap them myself. If NGK made the Laser Platinum version of the BKR7E-IX (which has no platinum wear disc), I would buy them. So, I got some Denso Iridium Tough from UK.
So, spark plug replacement time for the Mazda (2.3 engine).
On the right, standard iridium that are OE on the car.
Price is identical, actually the Ruthenium are a few cents cheaper, but that's negligible.
Gap is the same, form factor too. I always thought the Laser iridium meant double iridium electrodes, but now that I look closely I can only see one ?
Not sure about the replacement interval, but it's a very long thing like 100k Km.
Ruthenium seem to have two visible pointy electrodes of whatever fancy metal they are advertised.
There is little I can find about Ruthenium spark plugs, except it's the new sliced bread, better, last longer, etc etc.
If the Laser iridium have indeed only one iridium (or platinium + iridium) pointy electrode, I can see the Ruthenium lasting longer.
So, what's your take ? Can you educate me on spark plugs ? On most 4 cylinder they are real easy to replace so I always them as a maintenance item, replace every few years and don't think twice about it.
All of the NGK Laser series have a platinum wear disc on the ground electrode.
I considered the Ruthenium for my car, but they don't come in the correct gap. NGK says I Need to regap them myself. If NGK made the Laser Platinum version of the BKR7E-IX (which has no platinum wear disc), I would buy them. So, I got some Denso Iridium Tough from UK.
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Originally Posted by Cressida
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
[NGK uses a zinc plating on all their spark plugs. You will have no problem removing them no matter how long they are left in there
Just yesterday morning I spent about 5 minutes SLOWLY working a NGK plug back and forth about 1/4 turn to get it out. I first identified it as being "stuck" about 3 months ago and just came back to work on it now. It had been in service about 2.5 years and less than 15k miles.
Don't count me as one to believe there will be no trouble removing a NGK plug.
I should have mentioned it in my previous post, but one of the plugs I just changed was similar. I worked it back and forth about an eighth of a turn at a time until it came out. Took perhaps three minutes. (Lots of threads! This is NOT a Ford 5.4.) The other three came out fine. I hate to think what it might have been like without the anti-seize.
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
[NGK uses a zinc plating on all their spark plugs. You will have no problem removing them no matter how long they are left in there
Just yesterday morning I spent about 5 minutes SLOWLY working a NGK plug back and forth about 1/4 turn to get it out. I first identified it as being "stuck" about 3 months ago and just came back to work on it now. It had been in service about 2.5 years and less than 15k miles.
Don't count me as one to believe there will be no trouble removing a NGK plug.
I should have mentioned it in my previous post, but one of the plugs I just changed was similar. I worked it back and forth about an eighth of a turn at a time until it came out. Took perhaps three minutes. (Lots of threads! This is NOT a Ford 5.4.) The other three came out fine. I hate to think what it might have been like without the anti-seize.
Hmm. I find it weird that NGK does not follow their own advertising. They say DFE is preferred for naturally aspirated engines, and PSPE is preferred for turbos.
So I go on the NGK website and use the part finder for my engines (07 Subaru Impreza EJ253) and find the part number for the Ruthenium HX plugs. I order them from Adance Auto with a 25% off coupon. Two days later I open the box when it arrives and find that the plug NGK specs for my N/A engine is.... the PSPE electrode they say is for turbos. WTC? So I verify the part number... yep, it's the correct one.
So I guess I'll stick them in even though NGK claims dual fine electrode is preferred- maybe the Subaru waste spark does better with the big ruthenium chip vs the fine electrode?
So I go on the NGK website and use the part finder for my engines (07 Subaru Impreza EJ253) and find the part number for the Ruthenium HX plugs. I order them from Adance Auto with a 25% off coupon. Two days later I open the box when it arrives and find that the plug NGK specs for my N/A engine is.... the PSPE electrode they say is for turbos. WTC? So I verify the part number... yep, it's the correct one.
So I guess I'll stick them in even though NGK claims dual fine electrode is preferred- maybe the Subaru waste spark does better with the big ruthenium chip vs the fine electrode?
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Hmm. I find it weird that NGK does not follow their own advertising. They say DFE is preferred for naturally aspirated engines, and PSPE is preferred for turbos.
So I go on the NGK website and use the part finder for my engines (07 Subaru Impreza EJ253) and find the part number for the Ruthenium HX plugs. I order them from Adance Auto with a 25% off coupon. Two days later I open the box when it arrives and find that the plug NGK specs for my N/A engine is.... the PSPE electrode they say is for turbos. WTC? So I verify the part number... yep, it's the correct one.
So I guess I'll stick them in even though NGK claims dual fine electrode is preferred- maybe the Subaru waste spark does better with the big ruthenium chip vs the fine electrode?
They know you'll have to pull the head anyway to do the head gaskets
Hmm. I find it weird that NGK does not follow their own advertising. They say DFE is preferred for naturally aspirated engines, and PSPE is preferred for turbos.
So I go on the NGK website and use the part finder for my engines (07 Subaru Impreza EJ253) and find the part number for the Ruthenium HX plugs. I order them from Adance Auto with a 25% off coupon. Two days later I open the box when it arrives and find that the plug NGK specs for my N/A engine is.... the PSPE electrode they say is for turbos. WTC? So I verify the part number... yep, it's the correct one.
So I guess I'll stick them in even though NGK claims dual fine electrode is preferred- maybe the Subaru waste spark does better with the big ruthenium chip vs the fine electrode?
They know you'll have to pull the head anyway to do the head gaskets
My Gen Coupe 2L turbo came with Denso twin tip iridiums from the factory. I change them at 70k or so. And Denso has a twin tip line for almost all cars now. Run them in my Accent. They are know to eat coils but I am on the OEs at 165k miles.
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
They know you'll have to pull the head anyway to do the head gaskets
See that's the internet blowing things out of proportion as to how bad an issue really was... I've owned 6 Subarus (two currently) with somewhere around 500k total mileage under my use, and never had any issues with the HGs. One of them (Tribeca) was a 3.6 so not affected, but the other 5 were all the supposedly prone years: 2001, 2004, 2005, 2007, 2009. I have no qualms buying another EJ25 since between the SCC and the revised MLS gaskets put into circulation since somewhere in the 2007-2008 range have shown a majority of maintained engines have little issue. Sure, there was a campaign to fix the HGs which probably was needed due to a faulty initial design, but plenty have lived long happy lives.
The problems really seem to crop up on cars that have neglected cooling systems (spent coolant) and/or don't use SCC when the coolant is changed.
They know you'll have to pull the head anyway to do the head gaskets
See that's the internet blowing things out of proportion as to how bad an issue really was... I've owned 6 Subarus (two currently) with somewhere around 500k total mileage under my use, and never had any issues with the HGs. One of them (Tribeca) was a 3.6 so not affected, but the other 5 were all the supposedly prone years: 2001, 2004, 2005, 2007, 2009. I have no qualms buying another EJ25 since between the SCC and the revised MLS gaskets put into circulation since somewhere in the 2007-2008 range have shown a majority of maintained engines have little issue. Sure, there was a campaign to fix the HGs which probably was needed due to a faulty initial design, but plenty have lived long happy lives.
The problems really seem to crop up on cars that have neglected cooling systems (spent coolant) and/or don't use SCC when the coolant is changed.
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