Investigating Low Speed Pre-Ignition

[OneEyeJack]

It does not matter what the EPA does. There is no oversight and no recourse to their decisions.

In Southern California after a large fast moving wild fire homeowners were fined when the EPA discovered that they cleared brush around their homes on their own property without EPA supervision and permits. These areas were cleared based on the advice, planning and supervision by local fire departments based on experience from previous fires. The firebreaks worked exactly as planned and protected the areas from soil erosion when the rain came. These homes in the cleared areas were the only homes that did not burn and still the homeowners were fined. The fire departments stated that the EPA plans after the fire did not take into account the local terrain, wind direction, available fire roads, needed evacuation routes, local water sources, access for arriving fire fighters and protection against soil erosion both before and after a fire. And still, the EPA is in charge.

Homeowners that lost their homes were fined for having the debris cleaned up without a permit. The hurry is that in many situations like this you must start the reconstruction within 12 calendar months or your homeowner's policy is voided. Others that complied often ended up having to go to court to plead their case and maintain their homeowner's policy in place because of the EPA response time for those permits combined with the time to get permits from local government to build replacement homes. Many homeowners that lost their homes gave up and just moved away because they could not make it through the bureaucracy. What the fire took away the government kept.

 

[tinmanSC]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
According to EPA, which one of the below vehicles is a gross polluter and was forced out of production, and which one is a certified Low Emissions Vehicle (LEV)

Hint: The one that gets 55MPG is a gross polluter. The one that gets 9 is not.

False. For several reasons.

First, what is that a 1990 Honda Civic? It's 28 mpg, not 55. And the EPA made them stop production? The Civic is still made! Citation needed. New EPA regulations and the need to add something to your car, something that everyone else has to add as well, does not equal forced out of production.

Further, the Excursion stopped production 10 years ago. Ford cited emissions regulations as a challenge to the vehicle (However, to be fair this was not the main reason for end of production). Even further, your reference to LEV is useless in this comparison. LEV has more to do with NOx emissions which cause smog (a non-trivial problem in some areas), not absolute gas mileage. Made 15 years later, the giant SUV probably does emit less NOx per mile driven than the Honda.
Sigh, continuing... the EPA does not set Gross Polluter guidelines, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe only California did that. And it was in regard to NOx emissions not MPG. Smog is a problem in california cities, so I guess their changes make sense (I don't actually know, I don't live there).

As to OneEyedJack's comment about the EPA, you have mischaracterized the entire ordeal. Homeowners cleared their brush by killing all the plants, or plowing over them with dirt, sometimes out to hundreds of feet from their home. The issue wasn't THIS current fire, it was the next one. When you effectively clearcut land, weeds and small shrubs grow back first, it can take years, sometimes decades, for more fire hearty growth to appear. This actually puts the homes in more danger than before because everyone's house now has a tinder box surrounding it. This is why insurance companies don't like it and will sometimes void your homeowners policy if you do it. It's a bad idea.

Further, have you guys ever been to cities around the world where there is no EPA and industry has taken over without regard to the environment? Go to Sao Paulo, or... really any major city in South America and most cities in India or China. THEY STINK! Like... literally... they stink. The water is often so polluted swimming is banned, and drinking from rivers can land you in the hospital (yes, this actually happens. We think it's crazy here in the US, but in other parts of the world it's just part of life). Search for "most polluted cities." You'll see what I mean. That's Chicago, or LA or New York without the EPA. I'm not saying they are blameless or don't make mistakes, I'm just saying I think we are safer with them than without them. I do agree, however, that one should have a mechanism to appeal the EPA's choices. Why do we always end up in an EPA bashing thread in topics like DI?

 

[SwampSurvivor]

The Honda Civic is still made, but the HX model with it's specific ultra lean burn mode is not. Because it, apparently, was a gross polluter.

 

[tinmanSC]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
The Honda Civic is still made, but the HX model with it's specific ultra lean burn mode is not. Because it, apparently, was a gross polluter.

Probably has to do with NOx. Not enough hydrocarbons left over to heat the cats to operational temp maybe? Just a guess. There are only a few (reasonable) ways to catalyse the compounds to meet emissions, heat and correct ratio of gasses are major factors in almost all of them.

Edit: yeah, cats not working correctly in NOx emissions. DI engines actually do ultra-lean burning, but only for a certain period of time then they have to go back to regular for a bit. Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean-burn In fact this article talks about the Civic HX.

 

[OneEyeJack]

Originally Posted By: tinmanSC

As to OneEyedJack's comment about the EPA, you have mischaracterized the entire ordeal. Homeowners cleared their brush by killing all the plants, or plowing over them with dirt, sometimes out to hundreds of feet from their home. The issue wasn't THIS current fire, it was the next one. When you effectively clearcut land, weeds and small shrubs grow back first, it can take years, sometimes decades, for more fire hearty growth to appear. This actually puts the homes in more danger than before because everyone's house now has a tinder box surrounding it. This is why insurance companies don't like it and will sometimes void your homeowners policy if you do it. It's a bad idea.



You are wrong. You obviously don't live in one of these areas and have no experience with one of these wild fires. The fire department plan cleared less land than the current EPA plans and includes landscape planning. The fire department plan protects the area from current and future erosion. The EPA plan did not. Insurance companies gave discounts for complying with the fire department plans that homeowners submitted just like mine did. Several insurance companies participated in the planning along with Cal Fire (Department of Forestry).