Insulin Resistance - ready to learn something?

[Pablo]

Diet and exercise are not "cure-all's" and will not fix or even improve many serious or significant diseases. For example, Parkinson's will likely destroy the body, regardless of how healthy one behaves. I have multiple autoimmune diseases (MCTD and Hashimoto's) along with Secondary Adrenal Insufficiency.

I'm currently on the Carnivore diet for weight loss (meat only). I'm not really heavy at about 205, goal about 190. Carnivore has not helped my autoimmune conditions one bit, despite some very lofty YouTube claims. Nor have I been able to reach 190, that will take some serious fasting. A1C has been hovering around 5.6 to 5.7 as I take up to 20Mg Prednisone and 40Mg Hydrocortisone per day, and of course, being older.

Despite Youtube claims that Carnivore would get A1C down to 5.0 or something, I not seeing that.

No one here is claiming such things, that's for sure. This thread is about IR. An A1C of 5.6 is the least of your worries.

My only advice is to listen to your doctor, eat only wholesome non-processed foods and do stay as active as you can.

As for Youtube claims, it's like life, you need to do your own rigorous verification. And getting your A1c to 5 is possible, maybe, but why? BG of 100-110 -120 is more than OK ESPECIALLY considering you are taking 'isone drugs and you are older. PLUS that logic is a bit backwards anyway, one needs to get BG low first and then explore the body being in ketosis. Does that make sense?

Bless you brother and get better man!

 

[Pablo]

Here's an example.

I was randomly watching some odd youtube vids. One guy, seems honest but not at doc, says he took some herbal pills and it threw his BG to the floor. 60 or something. I'm like what.............so I look it up:

https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safe...ts-dr-ergins-sugarmd-advanced-glucose-support

Dang!

 

[JimPghPA]

There's a really good book you need to get a hold of. It's called the prediabetes diet plan how to reverse prediabetes and prevent diabetes through healthy eating and exercise by Hillary Wright.

Read that book and learn what's going on with your body and then follow the suggestions in the book about how to eat.

 

[Malo83]

Doc has me on 35 units of Lantus Solostar every morning and 1 500 mg Metformin tablet in the evening and he's happy with the numbers, I just watch what I eat and drink a lot of water and tea, I don't read the labels just eat in moderation and every once in a while cheat with some choc fudge ice cream, love bread and only eat sourdough for toast and eggs in the morning, 2 meals a day and eat what momma cooks for dinner, Doc says keep doing what your doing.

 

[vavavroom]

Today's high for blood glucose was not from eating treats, or waking, loafing, etc.

After two hours of extremely challenging pickleball tourney. Definitely need adrenaline and quick bursts, and light feet and arm. Mind focus on ball speed, trajectory and direction.

All the way up to 161 after! (was 135 when I left home).

Now the good news, 30 minutes later 133, then I showered and ate. 2 hours after eating 124.

I think the point here, is - that is somewhat natural. Recovery time quick and not much spike after eating.

Exertion can cause blood glucose levels to rise even if the glycogen stored in your muscles is already sufficient. Your body expects to require more fuel and the liver puts out extra glucose. A rise in adrenaline, whether from excitement or other stress also may cause a rise in blood sugar levels as the body readies itself for fight or flight mode. If you have metabolic syndrome your body cannot not release a sufficient amount of insulin. You need the insulin to enable muscle cells to uptake the glucose and to use it as fuel or the blood sugar levels will keep rising. You don't have enough insulin because you either don't make enough or because you are insulin resistant, or both. It really depends on the individual how their blood glucose levels change with exertion. How full your glycogen stores are has also an influence.

The glucose in the blood enters muscle cells with the help of sufficient amounts of insulin and through glycogenesis the glucose is turned into glycogen which is fuel for the muscle cells.

 

[Pablo]

Exertion can cause blood glucose levels to rise even if the glycogen stored in your muscles is already sufficient. Your body expects to require more fuel and the liver puts out extra glucose. A rise in adrenaline, whether from excitement or other stress also may cause a rise in blood sugar levels as the body readies itself for fight or flight mode. If you have metabolic syndrome your body cannot not release a sufficient amount of insulin. You need the insulin to enable muscle cells to uptake the glucose and to use it as fuel or the blood sugar levels will keep rising. You don't have enough insulin because you either don't make enough or because you are insulin resistant, or both. It really depends on the individual how their blood glucose levels change with exertion. How full your glycogen stores are has also an influence.

The glucose in the blood enters muscle cells with the help of sufficient amounts of insulin and through glycogenesis the glucose is turned into glycogen which is fuel for the muscle cells.

So, say it comes right back down in 30-60 minutes after the exertion - this would say enough insulin, no? Interesting!

 

[wwillson]

Great recommendations here. I also recommend "the obesity code" and "the diabetes code" by Dr. Jason Fung.

Excellent books. Excellent information. Time reading that is time well spent.

Thanks to your recommendation, I just finished "The Diabetes Code". It's a great book written by an endocrinologist that specializes in diabetes. There is so much information that it can be a bit overwhelming, but he also is good at summing things up into plain language that us non-medical professional can understand. If there ever was a book that explained why we have an global epidemic of diabetes and what it will do to you, and how to fix or prevent diabetes, this is the book.

 

[Toy4x4]

The carnivore diet seems to be helping out a lot of people. When I first heard about it a few years ago, I thought some YT influencer was trying to gain clicks and likes, rolled my eyes and forgot about it. As I had "the widowmaker" heart attack in late August, my food world got turned upside down. Considering all ha factors, this wasn't just out of left field, it was left field from a different ballpark. Zero symptoms, no warning. "Gotta keep sodium 2000mg or less" (per the NP that saw me first and dietician afterwards) so label reading became a must. At the three month mark, I had another echo and my EF was now 47%. I was asking about a salt substitute and he basically said I could go up to 4000mg daily, which I was more than likely doing easily pre-ha. ??? He said it would probably help my current blood pressure, anyway! Got me thinking about "who's running the diet show" with the USRDA and amounts. I was talking with a coworker who has high blood pressure issues and the numbers he was told don't match up with mine! He was very surprised at the 4000mg sodium daily intake.

So, in doing all this searching for foods and recipes for a low sodium diet, more and more YT doctor videos kept popping up on the carnivore diet. Drs. Berg, Eckberg, and Berry, who @Pablo mentioned being the most notable. Seeing as this topic is sided towards insulin and diabetes, it's worth a look into what this carnivore diet has to offer. Considering my age, 55, and what I was taught growing up through school and until recently, the carnivore diet flies in the face of everything I've been told. But it seems to be working very well for quite a few people and gaining ground. An article and very interesting results on Table #4: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8684475/.

 

[vavavroom]

So, say it comes right back down in 30-60 minutes after the exertion - this would say enough insulin, no? Interesting!

BG levels dropping during/shortly after exercising indicates there is enough insulin for the muscle cells to uptake glucose, to convert it into glycogen which is used as fuel. Most of the glucose uptake of muscle, over 80%, is mediated by insulin. If you get fatigued and your muscles give out while exercising without working out to failure it's an indication your muscle cells have depleted their glycogen stores and have not been able to replenish the stores by converting blood glucose to glycogen. The brain has insulin receptors but has other glucose transporters and does not rely on glycogen but can run on glucose and ketones. Low blood sugar levels may however cause someone to feel dizzy, to pass out, and even to slip into a coma and to potentially die.

With insufficient insulin, usually combined with insulin resistance, BG numbers can rise into the hundreds over time because the muscle cells can no longer uptake glucose. The muscle cells require fuel and will get fuel by metabolizing protein from muscle cells and body fat. The body will also try to rid itself of excess blood glucose by outputting more fluid. That's why untreated/unmanaged diabetics get thirsty and urinate a lot. The person will experience rapid weight loss and may fail to realize the seriousness of their condition. With the massive breakdown of body fat ketone levels will increase to dangerous levels and the blood will become acidic, the person develops ketoacidosis which is a life-threatening condition.

Ketoacidosis and ketosis must not be confused. The first is a dangerous condition, the second one is a metabolic state in which a person feeds their body a very low-carb diet which forces the liver to turn fatty acids into ketones that fuel the cells, including those of the brain. In a diabetic, doing keto does not necessarily prevent high blood sugar levels, and professional supervision is required.

 

[SHOZ]

Must also differentiate between Type 1 and 2 diabetes. Type 1 isn't insulin resistance though. But Type 2 is caused by excess carb intake. And the success of the lower carb, high fat and fiber diet depends on the depth of the disease and the honesty of the individual to themselves as far as what they eat.

Had a younger brother with Type 1 since age 6. The females in my mother side of the family tend to be obese yet long lived. As are my two sisters, one on BP meds and the other on insulin. But my mothers generation did not eat the processed high carb foods. In fact they were raised in the dairy industry and consumed copious mounts of lard and butter. The change to vegetable oils and food pyramid adherents came with my generation.

 

[vavavroom]

Must also differentiate between Type 1 and 2 diabetes. Type 1 isn't insulin resistance though. But Type 2 is caused by excess carb intake. And the success of the lower carb, high fat and fiber diet depends on the depth of the disease and the honesty of the individual to themselves as far as what they eat.

Had a younger brother with Type 1 since age 6. The females in my mother side of the family tend to be obese yet long lived. As are my two sisters, one on BP meds and the other on insulin. But my mothers generation did not eat the processed high carb foods. In fact they were raised in the dairy industry and consumed copious mounts of lard and butter. The change to vegetable oils and food pyramid adherents came with my generation.

View attachment 193826

Type 1 and Type 2 with blurred lines, actually. Type 1 is considered an autoimmune disease and can appear anytime but most commonly appears in children that are a few years old. Type 1 diabetics no longer make any insulin so they require insulin injections.

Type 2 diabetes can also occur at any age. It is largely but not exclusively a lifestyle disease with an auto-immune component. Type 2 is caused by insulin resistance and is most likely due to poor lifestyle choices. Too much carb intake is only one factor. Obesity is a major contributor to insulin resistance. There are also diabetics who are not insulin-resistant but who just don't make enough insulin.

As far as nutrition is concerned, keto is still the thing many follow and yet it is often misunderstood. That's obvious when you look at the "keto foods" that are advertised.

Spending a few hours a day in a metabolic state called ketosis is a great way to lose weight. All you have to do is eat a very low-carb diet, and eat enough protein and fat while also being in a caloric deficit. Without being in a caloric deficit you will not lose weight even on a "keto diet." To burn body fat you have to make your body burn fat. Either exercise to increase caloric requirements or take in less calories, or best do both. On the keto diet, for weight maintenance, you can eat more fat than on other diets because you cut out most of the carbs but you still need to reduce the caloric intake, and since you don't want to cut protein intake and you already only eat a minimum amount of carbs you need to cut fat intake to achieve weight loss.

I gain and lose 10 to 15 pounds deliberately every year. Well, this year I didn't but usually I get fatter over the winter and I shed the weight in February or March. I don't have to tell you how I gain weight. I lose the extra pounds very quickly by decreasing my carb intake to the minimum while remaining in an 800 kcal deficit. During that time I spend 6 to 8 hours a day in ketosis, meaning my body is burning body fat for fuel because there isn't enough glucose and glycogen stores a running low. I know when I'm in ketosis because I get keto breath. Smells like brake cleaner.

 

[SHOZ]

Type 1 and Type 2 with blurred lines, actually. Type 1 is considered an autoimmune disease and can appear anytime but most commonly appears in children that are a few years old. Type 1 diabetics no longer make any insulin so they require insulin injections.

Type 2 diabetes can also occur at any age. It is largely but not exclusively a lifestyle disease with an auto-immune component. Type 2 is caused by insulin resistance and is most likely due to poor lifestyle choices. Too much carb intake is only one factor. Obesity is a major contributor to insulin resistance. There are also diabetics who are not insulin-resistant but who just don't make enough insulin.

As far as nutrition is concerned, keto is still the thing many follow and yet it is often misunderstood. That's obvious when you look at the "keto foods" that are advertised.

Spending a few hours a day in a metabolic state called ketosis is a great way to lose weight. All you have to do is eat a very low-carb diet, and eat enough protein and fat while also being in a caloric deficit. Without being in a caloric deficit you will not lose weight even on a "keto diet." To burn body fat you have to make your body burn fat. Either exercise to increase caloric requirements or take in less calories, or best do both. On the keto diet, for weight maintenance, you can eat more fat than on other diets because you cut out most of the carbs but you still need to reduce the caloric intake, and since you don't want to cut protein intake and you already only eat a minimum amount of carbs you need to cut fat intake to achieve weight loss.

I gain and lose 10 to 15 pounds deliberately every year. Well, this year I didn't but usually I get fatter over the winter and I shed the weight in February or March. I don't have to tell you how I gain weight. I lose the extra pounds very quickly by decreasing my carb intake to the minimum while remaining in an 800 kcal deficit. During that time I spend 6 to 8 hours a day in ketosis, meaning my body is burning body fat for fuel because there isn't enough glucose and glycogen stores a running low. I know when I'm in ketosis because I get keto breath. Smells like brake cleaner.

Been there and done that. But you do not need to stay in ketosis and deprive yourself of carbs. My carb intake is 150 gram a day more or less. or about half the 'recommended'. And I don't shy from sugar though I don't seek it. My sweetness level has been considerable reduced. That is my long term sustainable dieting anyway. Had more to do with the mentality of what and why I eat.

 

[vavavroom]

Been there and done that. But you do not need to stay in ketosis and deprive yourself of carbs.

If I want to lose 10 lbs in a few weeks it's the most efficient and easy-to-do method for me.

My carb intake is 150 gram a day more or less. or about half the 'recommended'.

My normal carb intake is between 50 and 80 g a day and that's with a 2800 to 3,000 kcal intake. If I wanted to constantly activate mTor and lipogenesis I would eat more carbs, protein, and fat, I would eat more than two meals a day, and I would do very heavy workouts. This would also be detrimental to my long-term health goals. I do best on 2MAD by eating most food between noon and early evening. The body is designed to burn body fat for standard operating energy. Carbs are meant to be used mostly for short-term instant energy, evolutionary speaking for fight to flight, or in modern man's case, for exercise and hard physical work. If someone eats carbs all day long the body will make insulin all day. Any excess calories will be converted into and deposited as body fat. Insulin has a growth-factor-like effect, IGF-1. Constant growth stimulation affects lipids, the proliferation of abnormal cells, and speeds up cell aging. The body should not make insulin in large quantities 24/7. Most people sleep 8 hours a night, hopefully. If they were to just not eat for 4 hours before going to sleep and for 2 hours after getting up, a total break of 14 hours from the detrimental effects of insulin, they could dramatically improve their metabolism and likely avoid becoming insulin-resistant.

And I don't shy from sugar though I don't seek it. My sweetness level has been considerable reduced. That is my long term sustainable dieting anyway. Had more to do with the mentality of what and why I eat.

I do consume carbs in moderation but if I know I will work out I may eat another 40 grams of carbs and somewhat more protein before or after. I do not really believe in metabolic windows.

 

[vavavroom]

In the end I just want to know if he wants to sell you a product.

In a way the videos themselves are the product because they serve selfpromotion and because they bring in advertisers and maybe sponsors.

 

[puellarum]

Thanks to your recommendation, I just finished "The Diabetes Code". It's a great book written by an endocrinologist that specializes in diabetes. There is so much information that it can be a bit overwhelming, but he also is good at summing things up into plain language that us non-medical professional can understand. If there ever was a book that explained why we have an global epidemic of diabetes and what it will do to you, and how to fix or prevent diabetes, this is the book.

I'm glad you like it. It was massively eye opening for me. What's surprising and sad is how many medical professionals really are not trained on nutrition. The American diabetes association, of all groups, has been extremely resistant to low carb and ketogenic diets. It's completely ridiculous and illogical. Only very recently did that organization concede that a low-carb diet is "an option" for those with insulin resistance and or diabetes.

 

[wwillson]

I'm glad you like it. It was massively eye opening for me. What's surprising and sad is how many medical professionals really are not trained on nutrition.

The recommendation for diabetics to eat whole grain breads is mind numbing to me. Why would you eat wheat that your body turns very quickly into sugar and spikes insulin. I just don't get it.

 

[Pablo]

Same groups say red meat cause diabetes.

Basing any type of study on past food consumption questions are useless imho

 

[Cujet]

No one here is claiming such things, that's for sure. This thread is about IR. An A1C of 5.6 is the least of your worries.

My only advice is to listen to your doctor, eat only wholesome non-processed foods and do stay as active as you can.

As for Youtube claims, it's like life, you need to do your own rigorous verification. And getting your A1c to 5 is possible, maybe, but why? BG of 100-110 -120 is more than OK ESPECIALLY considering you are taking 'isone drugs and you are older. PLUS that logic is a bit backwards anyway, one needs to get BG low first and then explore the body being in ketosis. Does that make sense?

Bless you brother and get better man!

Pablo, thanks!

The IR thing is an interesting subject, as there are plenty of people that claim it can be cured, I disagree and say it can be improved somewhat and managed. I have IR and have had it for decades. A Carnivore diet can reduce the need for insulin and ease the symptoms and stress on the pancreas. However, there are studies that clearly show a person who became T2d can sometimes eliminate drugs and manage by diet/exercise. HOWEVER even years down the road, consumption of sugars/carbs will spike blood glucose into the red.

So the IR has not been cured in these cases. Only managed to the point where they can live a healthy life.

 

[Pablo]

Pablo, thanks!

The IR thing is an interesting subject, as there are plenty of people that claim it can be cured, I disagree and say it can be improved somewhat and managed. I have IR and have had it for decades. A Carnivore diet can reduce the need for insulin and ease the symptoms and stress on the pancreas. However, there are studies that clearly show a person who became T2d can sometimes eliminate drugs and manage by diet/exercise. HOWEVER even years down the road, consumption of sugars/carbs will spike blood glucose into the red.

So the IR has not been cured in these cases. Only managed to the point where they can live a healthy life.

Yes. You make a solid point.

I contend, or maybe look at things a bit differently.

First of all, yes - especially young people can get away with eating a lot of junk. They start and live a chunk of their lives super insulin reactive. Other people not so much. And people such as myself who generally eat/ate healthy but say have a real lust for bread and pasta, drifted over time into IR to one degree or another - now I have little idea how and what my body was doing in this department until around 65 years old (this is not 100% true though because I knew keto helped me lose weight long before internet "keto").

Anyway, keeping in mind the key is the major driver is diet. Even the most perfect follower at say 70 years old, with BG 70-80 and maybe BG 100-110 after a large meal, will spike 150-200 if he eats a jelly donut or three. This does NOT mean he is IR. It's normal, it really is. Is it good? Well one donut won't kill him, but say he does it again, and again. Blood spiking again and again. Stops eating his meat and salad. Bread pasta and donuts, seed oils and packaged meals, cheap Chinese food and few veggies and snacks on crackers!

Does he have a diet problem or a metabolic problem?

It's not a cure. It's a life style and food choice problem that causes the disease.

 

[SHOZ]

The recommendation for diabetics to eat whole grain breads is mind numbing to me. Why would you eat wheat that your body turns very quickly into sugar and spikes insulin. I just don't get it.

Depends on the fiber content as they are an offset to carbs.

Sugar is only 5 grams of carbs per teaspoon too.