Informal viscosity experiment

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I bought a bottle of VWB 10w-30, a bottle of VWB 5w-30, and a bottle of Delo 15w-40. I put them in the refrigerator and got them down to about 42 deg. F. When shaking the two grades of VWB, they were still relatively "watery". They both poured easily, with the 5w-30 being just thinner enough to notice. Not much difference. The 15w-40, though, was much thicker, feeling very different on the "shake test", and pouring noticeably slower.

Then I put them all in the freezer and got them down to about 0 deg. F. All were thicker, of course, but the VWB grades still poured pretty well and passed the "shake test" as far as I was concerned. Still not a whole lot of difference between the VWB grades, but enough to notice. The Delo 15w-40, on the other hand, was thicker than molasses and didn't shake too well. Poured very slowly.

The purposes were to see if 10w-30 would be a good year-round grade for southern California, and also to see the difference in an HD 15w-40.

My conclusion is that in southern Cal., either 5w-30 or 10w-30 would be fine. I have an idea that in an engine that burns a little oil, the 10w-30 might be better. If temps get very far below freezing, the 5w-30 would pump a little faster. Secondly, in VWB, there's not a great deal of difference in moderately low temp. performance between the 5w-30 and 10w-30. The 10w-30, however, has a much lower NOACK number.

My other conclusion is that if I use HDEO, I'd rather use 10w-30 under almost any conditions than 15w-40. The exception would be constant Death Valley type heat. For summer use in LA or San Diego areas, I figure the 15w-40 would probably be OK, but not my first choice unless I were doing a lot of towing or something like that.

Disclaimer: All of my vehicles have pretty high mileage and are out of warranty. If any were in warranty, I'd use whatever viscosity grade the warranty calls for. My vehicles all call for 5w-30.
 
Originally Posted By: Stelth
My conclusion is that in southern Cal., either 5w-30 or 10w-30 would be fine. I have an idea that in an engine that burns a little oil, the 10w-30 might be better.


Why do you have this idea about 10w-30? At engine operating temperature, 5W-30 and 10W-30 have the same general viscosity. At operating temperature (212*F) Mobil 1 5W-30 had a viscosity of 11 and Mobil 1 10W-30 has a viscosity of 10.1. Both of these are within the range of 30 weight oils, but, in fact, the 10W-30 in this case is slightly thinner than the 5W-30 at operating temperature.
 
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I've been thinking for awhile that I might start running 15w40 in my Ford Taurus during the summer. Right now it is over 100 degrees every day.

However, 5 quarts of 15w40 and 5 quarts of 10w30 Maxlife are so close in price, and the 2002 Ford Taurus with the SOHC and 172,000 miles really likes the Maxlife, that I am thinking now that I will stick to what I know works.

However it is good to know that 15w40 during the wintertime, even in Texas with our 20 degree lows, would be something to think twice about.
 
My Subaru fleshes out the difference between dino 15w-40 (Rotella T3) and semi-syn Rotella T5 10w-30 during the winter. I leave 15w-40 in the sump until the morning temps are steadily below 50F. One morning last fall the temp dipped down to 30F and the car was VERY slow to start and once it did start it didn't stay at 1500 RPM until it was warmed up as it usually does - it stuck around 1100 RPM.

I changed the oil to 10w-30 Rotella T5 that evening - the car didn't show that same cold start behavior all the way down to 10F.
 
take a look at this. I did it a couple years ago after doint my own informal viscosity test. I actually set up a little test in the lab at work where i measured the time it took for each oil to flow thru a specific hole at different temps. I took was suprised how thick the 15w40 was at freezer temps.

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B6pXF6f...list&num=50
 
Originally Posted By: SuperDave456
I've been thinking for awhile that I might start running 15w40 in my Ford Taurus during the summer. Right now it is over 100 degrees every day.


Ambient temperature is immaterial. The engine doesn't know if it's 100 or 50. The engine has a 195* thermostat because it likes to run when the engine temperature is between 200 - 220 *F. The operating temperature is controlled by the cooling system not the ambient temp.
 
Originally Posted By: Steve S
15w-40 works down to freezing according to my wifes Ford Powerstroke and John Deere tractor manual.


Steve S, I totally dig where you're coming from. But I don't have a Powerstroke (more's the pity) or a John Deere. I've just got ordinary gasoline engines. None of them actually recommend 15w-40 under any circumstances, but, for the most part, they're old, and sometimes heavier oil is recommended for older engines. If I did have a Powerstroke, and the temps outside were around freezing outside, I'd sure let it warm up a little before I put any load on it.

Quote:
Ambient temperature is immaterial. The engine doesn't know if it's 100 or 50. The engine has a 195* thermostat because it likes to run when the engine temperature is between 200 - 220 *F. The operating temperature is controlled by the cooling system not the ambient temp.


The ambient temp matters at startup. Once the engine reaches operating temp, not so much, but don't you think it's possible that at 120+ deg. F, the ambient temp matters a little?
 
Not at all. I anything, 120*F will just make xxW-30 flow that much better at startup. If your engine runs great on xxW-30 at 50*F it will run just as good on xxW-30 at 120*F. The only time you would want to consider an xxW-40 oil is if you were running it at almost full throttle for extended periods.

Powerstroke diesel engines spec 15W-40 because it is expected that they are going to be working HARD much of the time. By HARD, I mean towing 10,000 pounds at 65 MPH with 20 psi boost and combustion chamber temps above 1000* F. You'll never come close to this in a passenger car.
 
I've done lots of freezer test. Taking oils down to about -12degF overnite in my freezer in the garage. M1 HM 10w40 got scary thick. 5w20's do great. MMO is a bit thicker than milk after a nite in the freezer (ie, very thin).

Fun stuff those freezer tests!
 
15W-40 and 20W-50 is OK above freezing, in fact even a little colder.

You won't see much difference between 5W-30 and 10W-30 in terms of oil consumption but you will see with 15W-40 (less consumption).

The main difference between 5W-30 and 10W-30 (apart from very cold starting) is that, while they have the same fresh-oil hot viscosity, 5W-30 will eventually permanently shear to uppers of 5W-20 weight but 10W-30 should stay within the SAE-specified viscosity range (more than about 9 cSt @ 100 C). Synthetic 5W-30s will shear less but they usually shear to below 9 cSt @ 100 C as well.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan

The main difference between 5W-30 and 10W-30 (apart from very cold starting) is that, while they have the same fresh-oil hot viscosity, 5W-30 will eventually permanently shear to uppers of 5W-20 weight but 10W-30 should stay within the SAE-specified viscosity range (more than about 9 cSt @ 100 C). Synthetic 5W-30s will shear less but they usually shear to below 9 cSt @ 100 C as well.


Can you provide data, or is this just opinion?
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
The main difference between 5W-30 and 10W-30 (apart from very cold starting) is that, while they have the same fresh-oil hot viscosity, 5W-30 will eventually permanently shear to uppers of 5W-20 weight but 10W-30 should stay within the SAE-specified viscosity range (more than about 9 cSt @ 100 C). Synthetic 5W-30s will shear less but they usually shear to below 9 cSt @ 100 C as well.


I call B-S on this. I just reviewed 10 UOAs on 5W-30 and 10 UOAs on 10W-30. 30% of the 5W-30 oils sheared to 20 weight. OTOH, 50% of the 10W-30 oils sheared to 20 weight. I didn't pre-select the UOAs. I just looked at the first 10 5W-30 and the first 10 10W-30.

I think shearing is more engine related than oil grade related.
 
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Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
The main difference between 5W-30 and 10W-30 (apart from very cold starting) is that, while they have the same fresh-oil hot viscosity, 5W-30 will eventually permanently shear to uppers of 5W-20 weight but 10W-30 should stay within the SAE-specified viscosity range (more than about 9 cSt @ 100 C). Synthetic 5W-30s will shear less but they usually shear to below 9 cSt @ 100 C as well.
I think shearing is more engine related than oil grade related.

Permanent shearing happens mostly because of low quality and/or high concentration of VIIs. 10W-30 has far less VIIs than 5W-30 in general. Of course, there are other contributing factors as the one you mentioned as well.

Unfortunately looking at 10 UOAs over the Internet is not a scientific study.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
The main difference between 5W-30 and 10W-30 (apart from very cold starting) is that, while they have the same fresh-oil hot viscosity, 5W-30 will eventually permanently shear to uppers of 5W-20 weight but 10W-30 should stay within the SAE-specified viscosity range (more than about 9 cSt @ 100 C). Synthetic 5W-30s will shear less but they usually shear to below 9 cSt @ 100 C as well.
I think shearing is more engine related than oil grade related.

Permanent shearing happens mostly because of low quality and/or high concentration of VIIs. 10W-30 has far less VIIs than 5W-30 in general. Of course, there are other contributing factors as the one you mentioned as well.

Unfortunately looking at 10 UOAs over the Internet is not a scientific study.


Then post a link to a scientific study that substantiates your assertions. I have a 6.0 PSD that has sheared every 40 weight oil I have put in it.
 
Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
I have a 6.0 PSD that has sheared every 40 weight oil I have put in it.

Try Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40. It's quite shear-resistant.
 
Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
I have a 6.0 PSD that has sheared every 40 weight oil I have put in it.

Schaeffer 9000 is well known in the six leaker circles to resist the HPOP/HEUI shearing nicely.

Here's one UOA: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1078474
Still 13.5 cSt after 5k miles, well into the 40 viscosity range. Plenty of other UOAs out there that show similar numbers.
 
I consider this a valid test. Thank you.

Makes me wonder how I got by with 20-50 in my vehicles for years in Chicago winters! Not smart!
 
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