Reading in a recent STLE Book that only 12% of the energy of the fuel goes into propelling the vehicle. You don't have to be a "Tree Hugger" to appreciate how bad and un sustainable this is.
Inefficiency of Automotive Transportation
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BrendanC
$100 site donor 2024
Honestly there is probably nothing better for the earth than just living like some tribes do. Just walk everywhere and make do with natural things. I do like vehicles though and the convenience they offer has some merit to help offset the poor energy usage.
Generalizations like that are impossible for me, or anyone else, to quantify.
That's true. But owning a vehicle is one of the least efficient ways to spend ones' money. An expensive assets that sits unused the majority of it's life, costs money (insurance, taxes, etc.) whether you use it or not and depreciates-generally.
That's easy to quantify.
What's the alternative?
Don't get me wrong, I understand the cost of cars and living in general. I am a fiscal conservative. I drove used 4 banger Toyletta pickups and used cars until I was fiscally in a good place. I help family and friends by performing maintenance.
I've also learned the hard way through mistakes. I've owned 4 Corvettes, both new and classic. Love 'em but they are hardly good fiscal choices. I should have bought TSLA instead of the 2018 Model 3.
I have 2 brain cells left and they argue...
Ironically Jeff,
The Bay Area is one the few places where there are alternatives. Years ago-I had friends that lived in Walnut Creek. Hopped on BART- into "The City". It was great.
True-but they literally can't give away horses these days....
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That's not "recent" information.
Back in the late 1900's I learnt that in my grade 10 high-school motor mech class
Interestingly, diesels had a significantly higher efficiency rate (closer to 20 or 30%).
One could make the same statement towards life itself.
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Not sure I understand the point of this thread exactly?
Toyota's dynamic force engines have thermal efficiency as high as 41%. You would likely need to go back to the 70's to get down to 11% truly. https://www.vehicleservicepros.com/...rticle/55037008/toyotas-dynamic-force-engines
So return to cave dwelling?
Toyota's dynamic force engines have thermal efficiency as high as 41%. You would likely need to go back to the 70's to get down to 11% truly. https://www.vehicleservicepros.com/...rticle/55037008/toyotas-dynamic-force-engines
So return to cave dwelling?
MolaKule
Staff member
i don't know which STLE book you read since you didn't identify it but you have to be careful with both the STLE and SAE publications these days since they are pushing the latest rabbit- down-the-hole technologies based on the latest fairy tale ideologies.
And yes, I am a member of the STLE and other technology groups.
Sadly public transportation in the US is extremely poor in a majority of the country.
Sure, but while I'm sure my Corolla's 1.8L is say 35% efficient, it's running at 0% when I'm stuck in traffic and not moving. Sure, my wife's hybrid could stay at 41% regardless of traffic--but my non-hybrid, when it's not moving, is at 0%.
And that is conversion of chemical energy into rotational energy at the flywheel. Now add in driveline loss.
Didn't read the article but is it tilting at well to wheels efficiency for the average case (which includes crawling in stop & go) or ideal case (cruising at 60mph but still refinery losses, trucking losses, etc)?
Maybe that is what there referring to. Even so - so what?
Return to cave dwelling?
Everyone must drive an EV? They use energy while sitting if you have the AC on. Not to mention a number of other issues they create - like infrastructure that must be built. EV's at speed aren't that much more efficient than ICE vehicles really - when measuring energy not cost.
Bigger roads? Work from Home?
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If you add in all of the inefficiencies of what it takes to get the fuel to your vehicle, it's even way worse. It always amazes me how cheap gasoline is when you consider all it must go through before it gets to the gas pump, and a large portion of that price is taxes.
There are pretty big inefficiencies to electric power as well, between how ever it is made and the losses that happen as it goes through all of the transformers and wires along the way.
As long as it's cheap enough and still useful, inefficiency doesn't really matter that much.
There are pretty big inefficiencies to electric power as well, between how ever it is made and the losses that happen as it goes through all of the transformers and wires along the way.
As long as it's cheap enough and still useful, inefficiency doesn't really matter that much.