Industry moving away from conventional?

[termigator]

I could be wrong, but it seems like all the newer cars nowadays require synthetic oil. All the newer Honda and Toyota vehicles seem to run on 0w20 and my brother-in-law's Jetta requires 5w40. I have yet to see any conventional oil in that viscosity range. Maybe it's just the imports?
I haven't owned a domestic vehicle since the 80's, so I don't know too much about what they run. I've heard a lot about GM's vehicles requiring "Dexos" certification (don't really know what that means) on this forum, but even all of those have been synthetics(until the recent post of a Dexos certified Pennzoil synthetic blend?).

 

[randomhero439]

Most 0w-20 is synthetic
5w-40 and 0w-40 is synthetic

All of the VW502, BMW LL-01, MB229.5 specs are synthetic. Been that way for awhile. American/Japanese cars are playing catchup now!

 

[cptbarkey]

add subaru to that list, you void the warranty if you do not use synthetic for the FB series engines.

 

[Stanley Rockafeller]

I think this is quickly becoming the case, esp. with so many cars running turbo's now. Not to mention the OCI's being extended well into +10,000 mile range

 

[JohnnyZ52]

Dealerships are now offering free oil changes as a regular service, so perhaps this plays a part? Having to do less often, I mean.

I think instructing consumers to use synthetics also helps the longterm reputation of companies. They can't blame the company if a car has issues from oil changes not being performed on a regular basis. Even though users on BITOG are religious about the quality and regularity of changing their oils, many people are still lazy, forgetful, or don't realize why they need to do so (which is why most people I know never change power steering fluid and rarely change transmission fluids, if ever).

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Turbos, DI, long OCIs ... all are good cases for synthetics.

For example, my Focus recommends 7500 on oil that meets ford specs. That's a multitude of 5w-20s ... including many dino oils. So, if you're a person that forgets, running 10k on some dinos, 12k ... is going to really be hard on the oil.

You can probably get away (no, definitely) with 10k OCIs with a good synthetic on my car and not worry about it.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: termigator
I could be wrong, but it seems like all the newer cars nowadays require synthetic oil. All the newer Honda and Toyota vehicles seem to run on 0w20 and my brother-in-law's Jetta requires 5w40. I have yet to see any conventional oil in that viscosity range. Maybe it's just the imports?
I haven't owned a domestic vehicle since the 80's, so I don't know too much about what they run. I've heard a lot about GM's vehicles requiring "Dexos" certification (don't really know what that means) on this forum, but even all of those have been synthetics(until the recent post of a Dexos certified Pennzoil synthetic blend?).


The EU and Japanese made cars seem to be moving more towards using full synthetics, but Ford and GM are stuck mostly on the syn blend 5/20 or 30's (Part dinos as I call them). Only a few mostly German made cars require full G4 synthoils as the HC synthetics are almost as good, in fact you can't really tell the difference in UOA terms.

 

[skyship]

On most new cars if the low oil level, check engine, oil service due or low oil pressure warning light activates the ECU will record fault code, date and time so when the dealer plugs in their code reader and computer it can prove you ignored a warning light, so they can then reject a claim for any damages under warranty.
You will find the dealers are not fussy about which oils they use for newer cars as they are more tollerant than older ones in most cases, but they pay real attention to any claims under warranty caused by wrong oil, additives or ignored warning lights.
The low oil level and oil service lights are getting confused by owners with the low oil pressure or check engine lights on a regular very expensive basis for those that ignored a serious light or two.

 

[Hyde244]

Yup.

At present majority of auto manufacturers recommend synthetic blends, if not full synthetics, for all new cars. (e.g. Ford's Motorcraft Syn Blend or GM's Dexos 1 certification for Syn Blends and Syns)

Boils down to better engine technology (direct injection, turbos, etc.) - for which synthetics are perfectly suited. Synthetics also allow for longer OCIs, which means more convenience for the average driver.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: Hyde244
Yup.

At present majority of auto manufacturers recommend synthetic blends, if not full synthetics, for all new cars. (e.g. Ford's Motorcraft Syn Blend or GM's Dexos 1 certification for Syn Blends and Syns)

Boils down to better engine technology (direct injection, turbos, etc.) - for which synthetics are perfectly suited. Synthetics also allow for longer OCIs, which means more convenience for the average driver.


While it took me a while to get in the mindset - I do like longer OCIs.

For the amount of driving I do, I'd be doing and oil change every 2 months! Now I'm down to about 4 per year between both vehicles!

 

[Artem]

Synthetic oil (even semi synthetic) simply gives more room for error, especially with today's longer OCIs, and SEVERE service that most drivers see with today's busy roadways and bumper to bumper traffic.

 

[ottotheclown]

Just that engine I think.
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
add subaru to that list, you void the warranty if you do not use synthetic for the FB series engines.

 

[ottotheclown]

Also those 0-20 Honda to my knowledge sell 0-20 in a blend made by Conoco. I think the demand for dino to go that 0-20 route is not there yet. I see no reason for dino to be 0-20 at all now nobody is demanding it.
Originally Posted By: termigator
I could be wrong, but it seems like all the newer cars nowadays require synthetic oil. All the newer Honda and Toyota vehicles seem to run on 0w20 and my brother-in-law's Jetta requires 5w40. I have yet to see any conventional oil in that viscosity range. Maybe it's just the imports?
I haven't owned a domestic vehicle since the 80's, so I don't know too much about what they run. I've heard a lot about GM's vehicles requiring "Dexos" certification (don't really know what that means) on this forum, but even all of those have been synthetics(until the recent post of a Dexos certified Pennzoil synthetic blend?).

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
Also those 0-20 Honda to my knowledge sell 0-20 in a blend made by Conoco. I think the demand for dino to go that 0-20 route is not there yet. I see no reason for dino to be 0-20 at all now nobody is demanding it.
Originally Posted By: termigator
I could be wrong, but it seems like all the newer cars nowadays require synthetic oil. All the newer Honda and Toyota vehicles seem to run on 0w20 and my brother-in-law's Jetta requires 5w40. I have yet to see any conventional oil in that viscosity range. Maybe it's just the imports?
I haven't owned a domestic vehicle since the 80's, so I don't know too much about what they run. I've heard a lot about GM's vehicles requiring "Dexos" certification (don't really know what that means) on this forum, but even all of those have been synthetics(until the recent post of a Dexos certified Pennzoil synthetic blend?).


I think we'll see 0w-20 in the lower cost conventional or syn-blend products in coming years. Obviously the capability is there or else you would not see Maxlife 0w20 popping up and Honda selling the Syn-Blend 0w20 at dino prices.

 

[ottotheclown]

Keep in mind as always $$$$$$ runs the decisions, which as a dealer would you rather have oil change at $39 or oil change at $75???Common sense gives you a insight into why??Yes I know you can extend it at 7500 but at the longer mileage you run into other things need to be done so the stop that costs $39 now is $105 with the other tire rotation, etc. Either way heads we win tails you loose big time.

 

[KD0AXS]

Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
Keep in mind as always $$$$$$ runs the decisions, which as a dealer would you rather have oil change at $39 or oil change at $75???Common sense gives you a insight into why??Yes I know you can extend it at 7500 but at the longer mileage you run into other things need to be done so the stop that costs $39 now is $105 with the other tire rotation, etc. Either way heads we win tails you loose big time.


Another problem is that the average consumer doesn't understand that you can extend your OCI with synthetic. Even if they do pay the $75 for the synthetic oil change, they are still told they need to come back in 3 months or 3000 miles.

 

[q12]

Lower viscosity numbers mean better mpg, small for the individual, larger for the fleet.

 

[artificialist]

Not only is engine oil going synthetic, so are many other fluids.

Most modern American trucks use synthetic gear oil in the rear differential.

Many cars use only synthetic transmission fluid.

Many European cars have synthetic power steering fluid.

 

[ottotheclown]

The stealership service manager does the 3k routine because he had to swear that he will live up to the oath "suckers,

you have a moral obligation to take their money"quote=KD0AXS]
Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
Keep in mind as always $$$$$$ runs the decisions, which as a dealer would you rather have oil change at $39 or oil change at $75???Common sense gives you a insight into why??Yes I know you can extend it at 7500 but at the longer mileage you run into other things need to be done so the stop that costs $39 now is $105 with the other tire rotation, etc. Either way heads we win tails you loose big time.


Another problem is that the average consumer doesn't understand that you can extend your OCI with synthetic. Even if they do pay the $75 for the synthetic oil change, they are still told they need to come back in 3 months or 3000 miles. [/quote]

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
termigator - The move to synthetics commenced with the first FF in a Porsche 928 (V8) around 1992. It was Shell's XMO? 5w-40. It has increased as technologies and products allows. There are many sound reasons for this in many WW Markets

China's Auto Industry (the World's largest) is also now rapidly moving away from Group 1 and 2 products to Group 3 and 4. Many lessons have been recently learned there as the rest of the World did several years ago. One is Oil conservation and we will likely see a move to re-refining as the Market place rapidly becomes more sophisticated