Income a family of four need to live comfortably by state in the U.S.

[andrew_j]

The table got flipped after 2008 with fewer homes built coupled to people able to work remotely and more flexible so the sup

That’s statistical nitpicking.

No matter how you characterize it, houses have increased in size by roughly 30% since 1992.

So, the cry, “I will never have what my parents did” is disproved by the simple fact that they already have more than their parents did.

You cannot hand wave away. The fact is that houses are larger, have more luxuries, more standard appliances, and nicer finishes and they did 30 years ago.

You can’t simply say “the standard has improved” without acknowledging the fact that the improved standard is representative of a higher standard of living.

Everybody complains about about the cost of living, without recognizing that it is significantly better than it was 30 years ago.

The average cost of a car has not increased that much compared with inflation. But the average car 30 years ago had nothing compared with what you see on today’s cars. The average car in 1992 did not have airbags, antilock brakes, side impact protection, Bluetooth, satellite radio, navigation systems, LED lighting, and the incredible efficiency that comes from better fuel systems, more sophisticated transmissions and hybrid powertrains.

So, while the cost is the same, what you get is a great deal more. That’s an increase in the standard of living.

So, when people say “to live comfortably“, they’re defining comfortably as being the top 10%.

But average people now love as well as the top ten percent did 30+ years ago. Everything that goes along with your increased standard and technology, whether it’s air-conditioning, connectivity, entertainment systems, or the amount of square footage per person, all of that stuff, has gotten dramatically better over the last 30 years.

The average person in this country now lives very well compared with how they lived 30 years ago and very well compared with the rest of the world.

30 years ago I was 22 starting as engineer out of college at $34k/year. College instate public itself cost $40k for 4 years locally.

Purchased a Honda civic for $14k with ac power windows sunroof etc. Bought a small homr for $110k with 3% down and some closing costs , let’s say $5k. It was a 9% interest rate. Also taxes were only $1500/year.

Flip to 2024 same college/degree is $120k starting salary is now $70k, same car is $20k now for base civic (not bad increase) and that home requires $100k deposit for 20% due to $525k value. Properties taxes now $5500.

Many barriers now…..

 

[John105]

Yeah, but I look at it differently; debt is a tool. Debt is using other people's money to gain an asset. I thought I needed a new 1990 black on black Corvette; I used debt to get one. I was beat up after 1 year and dumped it for a huge loss. I bought a home in Los Gatos during the downturn of the early 1990's. It was all I could afford. I used debt, refinanced to get lower rates, to gain an asset that is $2M in today's market.

Like any tool, use it wisely.

My uncle lives in Los Gatos, has since about 1972.

It’s all relative. Who has extracted the goodness out of life. A guy in Boston with a 1.5 mil Brady bunch house and no central AC? A guy in another area (I dare not say since all bets are off today) costing 1/3 yet a 3500 sq ft McMansion with a 3 car garage? A guy in a 800 sq ft Manhattan coop (he owns shares not the structure he’s inside of) costing half? Who’s really to say.

My aunt believes and believed in debt. She lived in San Ramon and moved to tracy with less equity than I have in my debt free living style tiny home in PA. Her M3 lightweight and current E46 M3 were not free (a clue re: her spending and lifestyle).

Some may criticize me for not having any debt, it was really me imitating my parents, nothing more. Not tooting my own horn as my living is really crappy compared to most peers

 

[SC Maintenance]

My uncle lives in Los Gatos, has since about 1972.

It’s all relative. Who has extracted the goodness out of life. A guy in Boston with a 1.5 mil Brady bunch house and no central AC? A guy in another area (I dare not say since all bets are off today) costing 1/3 yet a 3500 sq ft McMansion with a 3 car garage? A guy in a 800 sq ft Manhattan coop (he owns shares not the structure he’s inside of) costing half? Who’s really to say.

My aunt believes and believed in debt. She lived in San Ramon and moved to tracy with less equity than I have in my debt free living style tiny home in PA. Her M3 lightweight and current E46 M3 were not free (a clue re: her spending and lifestyle).

Some may criticize me for not having any debt, it was really me imitating my parents, nothing more. Not rooting my own horn as my living is really crappy compared to most peers

If you had levered up in 2019 at low rates and bought every old shack and used car you could find, you would have enough money now to have your personal assistant write your post on BITOG.

 

[Astro14]

The table got flipped after 2008 with fewer homes built coupled to people able to work remotely and more flexible so the sup


30 years ago I was 22 starting as engineer out of college at $34k/year. College instate public itself cost $40k for 4 years locally.

Purchased a Honda civic for $14k with ac power windows sunroof etc. Bought a small homr for $110k with 3% down and some closing costs , let’s say $5k. It was a 9% interest rate. Also taxes were only $1500/year.

Flip to 2024 same college/degree is $120k starting salary is now $70k, same car is $20k now for base civic (not bad increase) and that home requires $100k deposit for 20% due to $525k value. Properties taxes now $5500.

Many barriers now…..

The cost of college has vastly out-paced inflation. There are many reasons for that and college has become a fundamentally different prospect than it was in the 1980s.

I know.

I put all six of my kids through college. They all graduated debt-free.

But college is a separate discussion. Many of the kids going to college today are getting degrees that don't lead directly to a career, and they're going hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt for those degrees.

A breathtakingly foolish decision.

 

[alarmguy]

Way overly optimistic. 30% discretionary and 20% savings!? Not a chance in California.

It's a big state and why state wide comments on any state is frivolous. There is an affordable place to live everywhere in the USA, life has never been more easy and the same percentage of people who owned homes in the 1950s, 60s,70s,80s,90s do so today.
The only difference is today's homes are much more economical and filled with luxuries.

Not a chance? Check this out, CA on a median income of less than $70,000 and way less
https://www.redfin.com/blog/affordable-places-to-live-in-california/

 

[John105]

If you had levered up in 2019 at low rates and bought every old shack and used car you could find, you would have enough money now to have your personal assistant write your post on BITOG.

Even stupid things like olive oil, wish I had stocked up just 2-3 years ago. I cringe at the thought that it works out to $45/gal at Costco…

 

[JeffKeryk]

The cost of college has vastly out-paced inflation. There are many reasons for that and college has become a fundamentally different prospect than it was in the 1980s.

I know.

I put all six of my kids through college. They all graduated debt-free.

But college is a separate discussion. Many of the kids going to college today are getting degrees that don't lead directly to a career, and they're going hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt for those degrees.

A breathtakingly foolish decision.

My cousin's daughter has 2 Masters from Cornell. In some kind of horticulture. She can't even get a job in that field. Makes like $19 per hour in NY somewhere, sometimes 90+ hours per week to get by.
She has been paying back the loans for years. Recently her (perhaps $100K) debt was forgiven. I absolutely cringe even typing this. Today she understands those disastrous college decisions. A little late, doncha think? The whole thing is beyond any common sense I can come up with.

Who was to blame? Plenty to go around...

• herself
• her parents
• her advisors
• whoever gave her those loans

 

[4WD]

My cousin's daughter has 2 Masters from Cornell. In some kind of horticulture. She can't even get a job in that field. Makes like $19 per hour in NY somewhere, sometimes 90+ hours per week to get by.
She has been paying back the loans for years. Recently her (perhaps $100K) debt was forgiven. I absolutely cringe even typing this. Today she understands those disastrous college decisions. A little late, doncha think? The whole thing is beyond any common sense I can come up with.

Who was to blame? Plenty to go around...

• herself
• her parents
• her advisors
• whoever gave her those loans

Yet we only hire 3.8-4.0 engineers and they are started 6 figures - In 5 years - these young men/women are the mortar between the bricks and please send me more …
Love to mentor them and watch how they light up a room with energy !

 

[JeffKeryk]

It's a big state and why state wide comments on any state is frivolous. There is an affordable place to live everywhere in the USA, life has never been more easy and the same percentage of people who owned homes in the 1950s, 60s,70s,80s,90s do so today.
The only difference is today's homes are much more economical and filled with luxuries.

Not a chance? Check this out, CA on a median income of less than $70,000 and way less
https://www.redfin.com/blog/affordable-places-to-live-in-california/

I have exactly zero desire to live in those CA locations. If you want money, go where the money is.

"Because that's where the money is" is a quote attributed to Willie Sutton, a bank robber from the 1930s and 40s. When asked why he robbed banks, he is said to have replied, "Because that's where the money is". This became famous and is now known as "Sutton's Law".

 

[wwillson]

Oh yeah, you need to learn about finance, especially long term investing. Short term stuff is fluff.

Those are incredibly wise words, as are Warren Buffett's words, "It's not about timing the market, it's about time in the market."

 

[John105]

My cousin's daughter has 2 Masters from Cornell. In some kind of horticulture. She can't even get a job in that field. Makes like $19 per hour in NY somewhere, sometimes 90+ hours per week to get by.
She has been paying back the loans for years. Recently her (perhaps $100K) debt was forgiven. I absolutely cringe even typing this. Today she understands those disastrous college decisions. A little late, doncha think? The whole thing is beyond any common sense I can come up with.

Who was to blame? Plenty to go around...

• herself
• her parents
• her advisors
• whoever gave her those loans

Times have likely changed but in my day, only the college of arts and sciences at Cornell and Columbia and Yale were Ivy League. So people my age gained admission to the above in different colleges within the university, both to attempt to transfer in to the colleges of arts and sciences, or, just use the name on the resume. Again not 100% but it likely changed. Just reflecting on what people did in my time and maybe my dad’s.

 

[4WD]

Those are incredibly wise words, as are Warren Buffet's words, "It's not about timing the market, it's about time in the market."

And time with everything paid for …
(Stay in that house like he did - a kitchen remodel is awesome) …

 

[GON]

Maybe living customer

I think it is a little above the number where you have enough money that, averaged over society, having more won't make you any happier, or live longer. For some people the amount of money to be very comfortable is much lower, and some people much higher, and some people are miserable SOB's at any income level...
But for an early retirement by 60, , bigger newer house, mostly newer cars, a couple moderately expensive vacations every year, put two kids through college, etc I guess the number is pretty reasonable.
If you don't have kids and aren't interested in moderately expensive vacations, like your older cars, like your older solid home, for sure you are living comfortably for much much less.

Your response brings out another piece of being comfortable. Being able to afford an excellent senior care facility without having to sell the primary residence. An example is a married couple late in life, where one of the partners can no longer take care of themselves, and the other partner can't take care of the person who can't take care of themselves. Could be many different medical conditions.

Being comfortable for some may mean being able to have a spouse live in a very nice extended care apartment without losing/ having to sell their lifelong residence.

 

[gfh77665]

California? But wait, there is more!

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/californias-secret-gas-tax-hike-coming-in-2025

 

[4WD]

Even stupid things like olive oil, wish I had stocked up just 2-3 years ago. I cringe at the thought that it works out to $45/gal at Costco…

3/years ? What is the shelf life … I don’t use allot and get the CA stuff bcs it’s good and USA … not sure imports are well controlled …

 

[SC Maintenance]

Yet we only hire 3.8-4.0 engineers and they are started 6 figures - In 5 years - these young men/women are the mortar between the bricks and please send me more …
Love to mentor them and watch how they light up a room with energy !

I would have missed your cut off by a very wide margin

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

That’s statistical nitpicking.

Hmm, I don’t think so. The delta between wealthy and middle class has grown, and subsequently one would expect the average size moving larger than the median.

No matter how you characterize it, houses have increased in size by roughly 30% since 1992.

I am not sure it’s that simple. The fact is that all homes are less affordable now than at any point in our history. It may not be by as much as some people make it seem, but it’s still worse than ever.

So, the cry, “I will never have what my parents did” is disproved by the simple fact that they already have more than their parents did.

I don’t think anyone actually said this here. But to your point, yes, I concur. Just as their parents’ generation had more than their parents.

You cannot hand wave away. The fact is that houses are larger, have more luxuries, more standard appliances, and nicer finishes and they did 30 years ago.

I’m certainly not trying to hand wave, and I’m sorry if it came off that way. I’m trying to explain that there’s a constant flow of progress which is essentially a given and which has existed for basically the country’s whole history.

The boomers had higher expectations for standards of living than their Greatest Generation parents, for example.

As technology advances, amenities that were niche and expensive move into the cheap and mainstream. This has been so for a very long time. The notion that all of a sudden the next generation should not expect to benefit proportionally from this phenomenon when prior generations did seems biased to me.

I could see your point better if you showed that expectations of the younger generations were beyond being proportional to the natural technological progression of society. It seems plausible so you may well have a point there, but I haven’t really seen a convincing dataset yet.

You can’t simply say “the standard has improved” without acknowledging the fact that the improved standard is representative of a higher standard of living.

Yes, I have no issues with this. Again, this has held true with every generation.

Everybody complains about about the cost of living, without recognizing that it is significantly better than it was 30 years ago.

I don’t know if this is true across all possible measures. It’s true on some, but I’d argue others have degraded. We may need to agree to disagree here.

 

[4WD]

I would have missed your cut off by a very wide margin

Right - I did not create it - HR did and some are assumed to not reach the upper 1/3 … they fill single contributors jobs - not management

 

[skyactiv]

My wife and I are mortgage and debt free and our combined income exceeds what it claims for Ohio. I’m no happier today than when I earned much less. I’d be happier if we had kids and made half as much but having kids are in the rearview mirror at this point.

 

[John105]

California? But wait, there is more!

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/californias-secret-gas-tax-hike-coming-in-2025

I know they are responsible for costing consumers a lot more in car repairs related to emissions, so I got curious what they pay employees

https://calcareers.ca.gov/CalHRPublic/Search/JobSearchResults.aspx#depid=3