Way too many people moving to Texas and bringing bad habits and ideas with them.
So in other words a different time where the price structure of more or less everything was different. Not knocking it, I just think it’s different this not directly comparable.Late 80's thru late 2000's
I think the biggest problem today that differs from when I bought my first house in 1982 is this: There are a lot of people today that feel things they can't afford should be handed to them on a silver platter free of charge. I'll have to end it with that not to break any rules, but look at what is being handed out today vs. then, and look what people are expecting to be handed to them now vs then. I worked hard for what I have, and when I borrowed money I paid it back, including my college loan.
“Qualify”. For a house of some value (average?) at some stupid debt to income ratio??265 seems high for Colorado. I heard recently that back in 2020 $101,000 would qualify someone for a home in the Denver metro area. it's now $175,000
That has kind of been my point. RE is still priced to the 3% mortgage level. Folks with such low mortgages aren’t going to let it go for the price that a buyer with a 7% loan will want to pay. Incomes haven’t gone up commensurate. So then the austerity that @Astro14 has mentioned starts to need to be a thing again. But many of the newest folks haven’t had to ever live with. Think about it. A kid that graduated college and is looking to get a start today was born after Y2K, and after the start of the .com bust. Their parents probably fueled their excesses on low cost mortgages and HELOCs.The question is what would it cost to get into your lifestyle today.
If I had to buy into my neighborhood and my vehicles today I could afford it, but I sure would not be happy about it. Pretty sure lots of my neighbors couldn't afford it outright.
Now compare those numbers to median household income. Some census numbers can be 1/4 to 1/5. Makes me wonder then what’s comfortably. Places like Winnetka IL and Greenwich CT meet those numbers on the chart—food for thought….those folks are more than comfortable. They have $400/HR SAT tutors and riding lessons for their kids.Interesting chart. Of course it is in a MACRO basis. I wonder how state income and state/ local sales tax figure into the equationView attachment 218958.
This is so true.Expectations are absolutely out of control, that's the bottom line. The chart is what most people THINK they need to get by comfortably. But, give everyone a raise to the dollar amount on the chart and it doesn't fix anything....expectations and lifestyle bloat with additional income. My wife and I got married and chose to stay in a one bedroom 600 sq. ft. apartment for over 3 years so that we could sock away 40% of our take-home into the house fund. Turns out that if you set savings goals and are actually willing to adjust your lifestyle for a season to meet them things become affordable.
I bash my employer among close friends (I have on-call duties 24/7/365 and salaried). But I give credit where due. Since starting 8/10, I’ve maxed out the 401k to the IRS maximum, nearly 14 years (higher once I hit that catch up age). This means they pay me enough for me to have done so. There was one year that was scary. I was told I’d need to do deferred comp cuz the plan was lopsided…forced savings works for me. I truly don’t miss it….I admit I didn’t save 20% in my early days but I probably could have.In NY here family of four, not close to NYC, but "commutable" distance - at least many including myself do. No where near $279K needed to be "comfortable".
At $279K, I would hope folks are saving more than 20%...
What that is referring to is ranchers/ farmers.That's kind of a blanket statement and difficult to sum up in a few sentences. . Kind of like on Bob's the oil guy where the guy with the $80,000 vehicle is put on a high approval list and the guy with the 10 year old well kept car and several hundred thousand dollars in the bank or assets is looked down upon. I guess to sum it up one needs to handle their own resources accordingly.
In some statistics, Colorado is now the second highest single family home cost in the USA, only Hawaii is higher. Our Daughter has a nice comfortable home built a few years ago in the Denver suburbs, the home is valued at over $1 million. It is a 2x4 construction, two car garage, and a driveway that can park up to two cars.265 seems high for Colorado. I heard recently that back in 2020 $101,000 would qualify someone for a home in the Denver metro area. it's now $175,000
What is the definition of comfortably?There is no way that you'd need $209K annual income to live comfortably in Ohio.
That would put one in the top 10% of the income distribution for the state.
This remains a fairly inexpensive state in which to live.
Was thinking the same thing. Maybe similar age?What is the definition of comfortably?
Life insurance policy that sets the spouse of for life?
Ability to lose job and be able to live the same lifestyle without worry for 18 months?
Braces for both kids, paid for in cash?
Kitchen remodel every ten years?
Bathroom remodel every ten years?
Two late model vehicles?
Two 2-week vacations per year?
I suspect many on BITOG are frugal, innovative, thrifty, DIYer- and the chart may not relate to BITOGERs on a MICRO basis.
I can check most of those boxes and I can state that you don't need $209K a year in Ohio to get there.Was thinking the same thing. Maybe similar age?
When I was young (24) there was a guy in the office Matt, who got a V8 Jaguar. I said Matt, your car has HIDs (not common back then). He goes I dunno I just always wanted one (he was about 40). I thought it interesting how he knew all the best supermarket buys, and wondered why he bothered he has a Jag. Today, I know exactly why. Earlier this AM I splurged and bought 3 steaks for $8.99/lb, knowing I overpaid vs a good sale which is $6.99/lb (have a rain check in my wallet but the store never has t-bones). Imho frugal is a strategy…that does pay off over time
My plan allows for contribution up to the the 415(c) limits (and allows for all employee contributions to be Roth/After Tax (with Roth conversion) or pre-tax) then switches to deferred comp. $279K there's a lot of ways to save those $$$s.I bash my employer among close friends (I have on-call duties 24/7/365 and salaried). But I give credit where due. Since starting 8/10, I’ve maxed out the 401k to the IRS maximum, nearly 14 years (higher once I hit that catch up age). This means they pay me enough for me to have done so. There was one year that was scary. I was told I’d need to do deferred comp cuz the plan was lopsided…forced savings works for me. I truly don’t miss it….I admit I didn’t save 20% in my early days but I probably could have.
Food for thought again. If I want a $92k Tahoe, should my gross income be $450k? In the old days I’d say yes. Today maybe not…
Yes, frugal is often disparaged that it doesn’t make a big enough difference, isn’t worth the time, etc.Was thinking the same thing. Maybe similar age?
When I was young (24) there was a guy in the office Matt, who got a V8 Jaguar. I said Matt, your car has HIDs (not common back then). He goes I dunno I just always wanted one (he was about 40). I thought it interesting how he knew all the best supermarket buys, and wondered why he bothered he has a Jag. Today, I know exactly why. Earlier this AM I splurged and bought 3 steaks for $8.99/lb, knowing I overpaid vs a good sale which is $6.99/lb (have a rain check in my wallet but the store never has t-bones). Imho frugal is a strategy…that does pay off over time
Maybe..it all depends on what your expectations are for retirement. You are not going to travel the world living on Social Security only...,that's for sure.Guess that makes me at poverty level, just living on Social Security and not touching my retirement funds. (yet)
But I had a little saved up. My checking account seems to go down about $5000 per year.
I'm a handicapped shut-in with no vehicle. So yes, I get by cheap.Maybe..it all depends on what your expectations are for retirement. You are going going to travel the world living on Social Security only...,that's for sure.
This is not quite true. Mortgage payments are slightly higher now than they were in the past.I think my point, put differently, is that it takes about the same percentage of income to buy a house today as it did for me back then, but you get so much more.
Not median homes. In many cases they are the same buildings. In cases where it is a newer house, any advancements in technology are offset by degradations in build and materials quality.Houses are bigger and more luxurious. Cars are bigger, faster, more efficient, with far more luxuries and amenities.
Not out of proportion to the technology advances since. The boomers expected to have central heating. Their grandparents… not so much.Everyone who is starting out today, is starting out with so much more built in to their expectations than we had.
Yes, but this is not relevant.Example - We had broadcast TV over the air. Free, but zero selection. Now every one is used to streaming everything on demand. Our Sony Trinitron tube TV cost the equivalent of $1,000 today, but was 480 broadcast over the air resolution. Today, that much money gets you a really nice 8K UHD.
We live in an age of incredible luxury and convenience that everyone takes for granted. Yes, living is expensive.
But the standard of living is so much higher than it was 32 years ago.