I'm putting the Redline 0w30 in today...

[StevieC]

Well I have 2500KM on the Red Line now and it has remained a nice golden colour. (Lighter than above). I'm not seeing any signs of consumption or darkening.

So far its holding up well and the Santa Fe is still very quiet and has more oil pressure than with my Amsoil.

I have noticed that the fuel economy is slightly worse than with the other brands I have used in the past when compared to this same time last year as well as just before switching. Nothing major but for those that are concerned it works out to be 20KM less per tank.

Will report back in another 1K.

Steve

 

[rcy]

I noticed my fuel economy recently went for a dump as well. Likely it's a combination of winter gas being introduced and/or the cooler than normal temperatures we've been having.

 

[buster]

Yup.

 

[ADFD1]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
That lab isn't pushing anything nor is Terry. It seems like he pushes BioSyn because it is a cutting edge oil that is a "sleeper". and it fits so many applications universally. It is his favorite and it does perform but he gets no kick back and just wants whats best for his customers engines.

It got a bad rep. here because when you first put it in the wear metals on the UOA will spike and it will cause the TBN to fall rapidly as it gets used to the engine...

Once it has made itself at home it does a very good job and is quite impressive compared to other oils. The other downside is that it costs about as much as Red Line because it is a smaller company.

Those who use it and stick with it will be very happy.



From what I've been reading its certainly not better than RL or Amsoil, and for the cost I'd use RL or Amsoil. Sorry, based on my reading, the numbers don't add up for me. YMMV

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: rcy
I noticed my fuel economy recently went for a dump as well. Likely it's a combination of winter gas being introduced and/or the cooler than normal temperatures we've been having.


I would imagine it might be more due to the gas as autumn temperatures have been probably warmer than traditionally seen. Most days this month have for sure seen the highs (well) above 10 degrees C.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: ADFD1
From what I've been reading its certainly not better than RL or Amsoil, and for the cost I'd use RL or Amsoil. Sorry, based on my reading, the numbers don't add up for me. YMMV


Yes but if you question the OP of the UOA you will find that the UOA was done on their first or second run and it take a few consecutive runs for the numbers to start looking excellent, combine this with the fact that the TAN starts out higher and people start to panic.

If you run if for 3 runs and then do a UOA after the 4th run and take into consideration that the TAN will be higher because of the oils composition the numbers look fantastic.

Most people here that post don't know what they are talking about and/or they don't use a scientific approach for looking at the numbers.

Use what you want but IMO those who know what the numbers mean will see what I'm talking about.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: rcy
I noticed my fuel economy recently went for a dump as well. Likely it's a combination of winter gas being introduced and/or the cooler than normal temperatures we've been having.


I would imagine it might be more due to the gas as autumn temperatures have been probably warmer than traditionally seen. Most days this month have for sure seen the highs (well) above 10 degrees C.
That is what I thought and so I looked up my mileage on average for the years prior at the same time to compare.

Like I said it isn't a big deal only a few KM's a tank difference. Big-Whoop.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Last time I checked RLI was about $3-$4 a quart more then Redline.I do not trust BIO oils yet for internal combustion engines they still have a lot to prove to me in terms of oxidation resistance. I am not one to fuss over wear numbers because i own a Toyota and wear nubers are always low but I do fuss over how clean a lubricant is! Nortmaly I do not use an oil that leasve much behind. Last I checked BIO based oil where only about as good as dino with reqard to the amount of deposits they leave behind. THis was especialy the case when going well beyond 5000 miles. When BIO oils excluding Castor bean oil go main stream and retail I will change my mind but not until then. Terry Dyson has had a lot of pet oils over the years! Redline was the one he stuck with for the longest amount of time and it is the Gold Standard as far I am concerned.

I do not have a problem with RLI needing 2-3 OCI's to present an accurate reading Redline is like that as are most oils if they ahve a high ester content!As long as the user knows that going in no harm no foul.Cost for performance is a big issue for me.

 

[ADFD1]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: ADFD1
From what I've been reading its certainly not better than RL or Amsoil, and for the cost I'd use RL or Amsoil. Sorry, based on my reading, the numbers don't add up for me. YMMV


Yes but if you question the OP of the UOA you will find that the UOA was done on their first or second run and it take a few consecutive runs for the numbers to start looking excellent, combine this with the fact that the TAN starts out higher and people start to panic.

If you run if for 3 runs and then do a UOA after the 4th run and take into consideration that the TAN will be higher because of the oils composition the numbers look fantastic.

Most people here that post don't know what they are talking about and/or they don't use a scientific approach for looking at the numbers.

Use what you want but IMO those who know what the numbers mean will see what I'm talking about.

I see you're now running RL oil. You had good results with Amsoil. Would it pay to run 4 OCI's of the RLI oil to see if maybe it is better than the other two? IMO it would be very costly and odds are the end result might be disappointing and two years down the road for the average driver.

Not trying to start an agrument you've been a friend and very helpful. I'm sharing my view. To me it wouldn't be worth it, I'd buy RL or Amsoil which are two proven winners. I agree with J Browning, let someone else prove how good or bad the product is, and then maybe I'll jump on board. For now I see it as over hyped, over priced new oil with a few backers trying to push it. Maybe in another year I'll see it differently. My$.02.

 

[MontyD]

Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
Last I checked BIO based oil where only about as good as dino with reqard to the amount of deposits they leave behind. THis was especialy the case when going well beyond 5000 miles.


Can you further explain this?

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Yes but if you question the OP of the UOA you will find that the UOA was done on their first or second run and it take a few consecutive runs for the numbers to start looking excellent, combine this with the fact that the TAN starts out higher and people start to panic.

Most people here that post don't know what they are talking about and/or they don't use a scientific approach for looking at the numbers.


For sure one needs some patience and some faith that the higher wear #s will come down...but it does seem to take some time.

 

[c3po]

RLI 5W-40 Oil Experiment
JAG


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 3414
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA First, here are some previous test results I obtained. It shows the tight control I keep over the testing.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...rt=all&vc=1

Now I'll discuss the RLI Oil Experiment. I heated it for 12 hours at approximately 340F in an anodized aluminum cup; same for M1 0W-40 as a reference. I measured volatility at 1, 2, and 12 hours. The M1 0W-40 was less volatile. My notes are at home right now...from memory, the M1 lost 0.07 grams in one hour while RLI lost 0.1 grams. Not a big deal and that M1 is less volatile that almost every other oil I've tested. All oil's volatility drops as time goes on in these tests. Between 2 and 12 hours, RLI oil volatility dropped much more than the M1 oil's volatility dropped. This might indicate oxidative thickening of the RLI oil. I'd have to measure volatility at each hour and then calculate the rate of change of the volatility to get a better idea of this.

A simple crude viscosity test (at room temp) done by tilting the two cups of oils and comparing how fast the oil flows showed that the RLI oil started the test more viscous than M1, and at 12 hours, the difference between the viscosity of the two oils increased. I can't attribute it purely to oxidative thickening without a doubt because perhaps the VIIs in M1 "cracked", lowering the viscosity. More testing could answer this.

The real reason for testing is for oxidation and deposit formation. Neither oil left any deposits in the cups. The odd thing is that the RLI oil seemed to separate out quite a few clear "globules". They could be seen floating in the oil while it was in the cup. I poured the contents onto a folded piece of paper. The clear globules did not absorb into the paper nearly as fast as the rest of the oil. Some still were not absorbed into the paper 1 week later. That could be explained by the globules being oxidized/thickened HOBS oil that were not in solution with the rest of the oil. A picture of this is shown below.

Even before I heated the oil while it was in the cup, when I shook the oil, it looked like it was not a complete solution. I saw some color gradients...clear vs. dark brown. But the clear regions were not semi-solid globules like showed up at the end of this test. I think the former turned into the latter during the testing.

A test length of twelve hours in these cups without any catalysts in the oil is not nearly as severe as some other tests I've done.

 

[ADFD1]

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Yes but if you question the OP of the UOA you will find that the UOA was done on their first or second run and it take a few consecutive runs for the numbers to start looking excellent, combine this with the fact that the TAN starts out higher and people start to panic.

Most people here that post don't know what they are talking about and/or they don't use a scientific approach for looking at the numbers.


For sure one needs some patience and some faith that the higher wear #s will come down...but it does seem to take some time.


3-4 oil changes and a few OCI's to hope for better results. If I had a $150,000 car I guess I'd have the money to try RLI too. But then if I didn't get the results I was after I'd be one unhappy camper. I'd go with RL or Amsoil, two high end proven winners. Give RLI sometime to prove itself on someone elses money. c3po posting didn't impress me either. My thoughts this product is still in the experimental stages. Again JMO

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: ADFD1
If I had a $150,000 car I guess I'd have the money to try RLI too.


If RLI is too expensive then so is RL as right about now they are very close in price.

 

[ADFD1]

Maybe so but RL has proven itself. IMO the jury is still out on RLI. I wouldn't gamble. YMMV

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: ADFD1
Maybe so but RL has proven itself. IMO the jury is still out on RLI. I wouldn't gamble. YMMV



I do understand what you mean.

I think of RL as more mainstream, a larger more conventional operation than Renewable. I hope with RLI being somewhat ground breaking, that quality control is at the top of their list of priorities.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: ADFD1
Maybe so but RL has proven itself. IMO the jury is still out on RLI. I wouldn't gamble. YMMV



+1 if you pay that kind of money for a qt of oil go with something that has been in use and proven. Nothing against RLI, it could be the very best oil in the world, so far it hasn't proven itself, but in time it might.

 

[c3po]

Is it true that the base stock of this Biosyn is VEGETABLE OIL.

That's what I read on another Forum.

 

[StevieC]

Tell you what I will do then... I will continue to run the RL for a few runs as planned do a UOA and see how it stacks up against my Amsoil UOA's. Then I will switch to RLI and do 5 consecutive runs and do a UOA at the same mileage and see what it shows versus Amsoil/Red Line.

I will post all 3 comparative UOA's here (and at Terry's blog of course) and we can pick the winner based on what we see.

The RLI & RL is about the same price as each other, here in Canada so I'm not worried about the cost.

Sound good?

 

[DieselTech]

Is this stuff using waste veg oil? If so I have some concern about using waste oil from poultry are other fatty food. I have seen what it does to rings in a diesel and Waste Vegin as fuel requires a clean cycle of diesel before shutdown. This will have this base oil running through the rings. It seems it may create some big problems. Although I don't know their manufacturing process but it's nearly impossible to filter it out after the fats in the vegi.