If I get one more German car owner.....

[oily boyd]

I feel your pain, man (in a technical field, not auto related).

After this many incidents, I blame your boss or service advisor. When a german car comes in, educate the owner (with photos if needed) so that they know what to expect and why it is correct.

Best of luck with this!

 

[bdcardinal]

I love how the German's actually acknowledge that driving is a privilege and not a right.

The German manufacturers seem to have the aggressive alignment angles to get the most performance out of their cars, the people that buy them do not understand this.

 

[stephen9666]

The tire shop I worked at wouldn't perform alignments on most Mercs and BMWs. I think at least some models require weights in the trunk and passenger compartment before alignments, but I could be misremembering.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: stephen9666
The tire shop I worked at wouldn't perform alignments on most Mercs and BMWs. I think at least some models require weights in the trunk and passenger compartment before alignments, but I could be misremembering.


No, you are remembering correctly. BMW had/has a special weighting procedure to properly align their vehicles.

 

[ComfyShorts]

Originally Posted By: stephen9666
The tire shop I worked at wouldn't perform alignments on most Mercs and BMWs. I think at least some models require weights in the trunk and passenger compartment before alignments, but I could be misremembering.


There is no reason to be afraid of bmw/merc/audi alignments if you have proper align equipment and a good understanding of suspension geometry. The problem arrives when "toe setters" get cars with suspension issues and try to correct it with camber and toe adjustments. If the tech does not understand steering axis inclination, included angle, set back, thrust angle, toe out on turns and being able to measure vehicle ride height correctly they have no use performing alignments.

I've never had a bmw/merc customer complain about tires "looking" weird ;P so I can't comment on that.

 

[mechtech2]

So the problem is that there appears to be too much negative camber?
How much is spec'd for those cars, anyway?
Camber is not a big tire eater with radial tires, unless you get 2-3 degrees or more.
And with very high caster for the front on German cars, when the car is parked and the wheels are turned, you see massive camber! It looks like something is broken!

But I have to address Comfy - If all that can be set on most cars is toe [often camber], then what good is esoteric and unadjustable specs like set back? These things do not need to be understood at all to set what we can and get a real nice alignment.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
The tire shop I worked at wouldn't perform alignments on most Mercs and BMWs. I think at least some models require weights in the trunk and passenger compartment before alignments, but I could be misremembering.


No, you are remembering correctly. BMW had/has a special weighting procedure to properly align their vehicles.


No different than our lowly work vans. The vehicle should always be set up with the standard load in it. Many alignment shops cannot take our vans as they weigh about 9200 pounds when they take off every morning.

And German cars are not the only ones with severe camber, my car with it's pirated Merc front end makes people wonder if I have a flat tire if I park it with the wheels turned hard! But I am amazed at how evenly it wears the tires even in spirited driving.

 

[ComfyShorts]

Quote:
But I have to address Comfy - If all that can be set on most cars is toe [often camber], then what good is esoteric and unadjustable specs like set back? These things do not need to be understood at all to set what we can and get a real nice alignment.


Because even though those readings cant be "adjusted" they are a warning that something has happened to the suspension that needs closer look into. Lets say you get a car with a slightly bent lower control arm making your SAI off along with your camber and toe, you could set camber toe and let it go. Or you could make additional revenue by correcting cause of the SAI issue. It applies to almost everything, you don't need to know how an alternator works to replace one. But understanding of its operation helps to diagnose it. Eh, maybe i'm just picky about way I do things, who knows =/

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: brelandt
Originally Posted By: eljefino
They must think that positive camber makes the car look like a tiger up on its tippy toes ready to pounce on a 99 percenter.

Do they run walmart gas and chinese "Fun Time" tires too?


Just had a really nice 63 AMG in for tires. Bought a set of "Primewells"! Really dude?



So true. My good friend the retired dermatologist and I were just discussing his tire options for his Merc. Expensive and more expensive sums it up. It's another stunning performer that spends a lot of time at the dealer.

Like it was told to me in another forum: "if you want to stay on the beach you gotta pay the rent!"


Yep, don't buy the AMG with big sticky tires and cry about having to replace them every 10k-20k miles.

Problem is people get into them threw some creative financing who really have no business owning one. Oh look if I stretch the payments out to 7 years I can afford the C63 instead of an C350. They just forget about all the extra $$$ that must be spent for that kind of car.

OTOH the X5's rear suspension is pretty messed up, the shred rear tires and their is really no reason for it.

In my experience most tire shops in this country cannot properly align or balance German cars. For starters you need a Hunter Road Force 9700 and someone who knows how to use it.

 

[Spazdog]

The German car owners I have either neglect their cars to an early death or they blame me for everything that goes wrong.

"The rear tires wore out prematurely. You must have done something to it.

Well it is an SL55...it does have a little bit of torque

 

[brelandt]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog

The German car owners I have either neglect their cars to an early death or they blame me for everything that goes wrong.

"The rear tires wore out prematurely. You must have done something to it.

Well it is an SL55...it does have a little bit of torque



That reminds me of the guy with a 3 series that wanted a complete vehicle inspection because his rear tires are worn uneven.
One look showed the tires where over inflated. Had nearly 50 psi! He says that has nothing to do with the center of the tire wearing faster than the edge and that he saves fuel with 50 psi and refused service after that. I believe the car called for 33 in the rear if I remember correctly.

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: brelandt
Originally Posted By: Spazdog

The German car owners I have either neglect their cars to an early death or they blame me for everything that goes wrong.

"The rear tires wore out prematurely. You must have done something to it.

Well it is an SL55...it does have a little bit of torque



That reminds me of the guy with a 3 series that wanted a complete vehicle inspection because his rear tires are worn uneven.
One look showed the tires where over inflated. Had nearly 50 psi! He says that has nothing to do with the center of the tire wearing faster than the edge and that he saves fuel with 50 psi and refused service after that. I believe the car called for 33 in the rear if I remember correctly.



"You can't fix stupid." -Ron White

 

[rjundi]

Explains German cars to me this thread.

I always found most to be incredible driving cars below 100k but above that just nothing special at all even worst than Japanese vehicles. I find Japanese cars to hold their suspension/handling much longer as I assume they don't assign on the edge.

 

[Kestas]

I just read an article today that, ten years ago Mercedes was working on a "variable camber" design vehicle, which has 20° of camber adjustment that would automatically adjust to your driving conditions. It required the use of a special tire that was rounded on the inside like a motorcycle tire. The car purportedly had no lean in the curves.

 

[CBR.worm]

I bet that would have been an expensive, OE only, tire...

 

[paulo57509]

Practically every Porsche I see has weird camber front (positive) AND rear (negative). They must go better this way.

 

[Spazdog]

Some German car aficionados prefer just a little bit of camber.

 

[Garak]

That would be yanked off the road up here and subjected to a light vehicle mechanical inspection.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
Explains German cars to me this thread.

I always found most to be incredible driving cars below 100k but above that just nothing special at all even worst than Japanese vehicles. I find Japanese cars to hold their suspension/handling much longer as I assume they don't assign on the edge.


You mean BMWs like my 1995 Club Sport with over 130,000 on the clock? Which is still tracked 2-3 weekends per year and the only suspension work it has needed is a set of LCABs?
Of course it pales in comparison to my 2007 Mazdaspeed 3, which needed a turbo and a left front strut at 26,000 miles- and an EGR valve and two rear shocks at 60,000 miles.
Fortunately it was Japanese- so at least it was reliable...

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
it pales in comparison to my 2007 Mazdaspeed 3, which needed a turbo and a left front strut at 26,000 miles- and an EGR valve and two rear shocks at 60,000 miles.
Fortunately it was Japanese- so at least it was reliable...

Agreed Mazdaspeed 3/6 is subpar Japanese , don't really get that car(3 overpowered FWD). I know a few disappointed folks who left Subaru WRX for that and came back to Subaru.