Idling... Why is it so bad?

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quote:

Originally posted by ZmOz:

quote:

Originally posted by ToyotaNSaturn:

quote:

Originally posted by Jimbo:
'94 Ford truck

If operating conditions include extensive idling, change the oil and filter every 200 operating hours, rather than using mileage intervals.


Jimbo, are you sure it doesn't read 20 hours in the owner's manual? 200 hours of operation, say at 60mph, is 12,000 miles! That seems like very long OCI when excessive idling is added in this mix.


It probably means 200 hours of idling - as in alot less RPMs than 60mph.


It is 200 hours. Imagine a highway construction site supervisor's truck. It sits there all day with flashing strobe lights on and the A/C on in summer or the heat on in winter. It might move two miles in eight hours. 200 hours would be 25 work days, just over a month.

[ December 18, 2003, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: Jimbo ]
 
I totally agree. I let my engine always idle for about 5-15 minutes depending on ambient temps (15 minutes when it gets down to or below 0F)before driving off, especially because I live in the country and from my house I hit the highway right away going 50-60 mph and then the interstate after only 4 miles going 70 mph, so I like to let the oil get circulating a little before taking off. In the days when we still built engines we tested once how long it takes for a SBC to get oil to the rocker shafts when the engine was very cold. You'd be surprised. It took a good 3 minutes before oil was visibly flowing from the pushrod holes into the fulcrums.
quote:

Originally posted by jsharp:
I don't buy this whole "idling is bad" thing. I think it's a problem from a bygone era. A modern fuel injected engine has little if any excess fuel to worry about, and as long as the engine has adequate oil flow to the top end and pressure to the bearings I don't see how it can hurt it to run with no load...



[ December 18, 2003, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: Alex D ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by mikemc:
I would think that the problem with excessive idling is that the odometer isn't giving you a true picture of how long the oil has been used. You can idle for a month and show zero miles. That's why big trucks and heavy equipment have a gage for total engine hours used and a maintenance interval for hours OR miles, whichever comes first..

I wish I had an Hour Meter on my truck just for this reason. I know I have over 18k and less than 20K hours on my engine, but I think it would help me in my application.
 
Originally posted by Alex D:
[QB]. In the days when we still built engines we tested once how long it takes for a SBC to get oil to the rocker shafts when the engine was very cold. You'd be surprised. It took a good 3 minutes before oil was visibly flowing from the pushrod holes into the fulcrums.

What grade of oil were you using? I use 5W-30 like my owners manual says.

Also a gentle acceleration to 50-60 mph shouldn't hurt the engine much more than idling. Note, sometimes a gentle acceleration on the highway can result in extensive damage to the rear bumper.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Ron-Indy:
I know excessive idling is bad for an engine, especially in cold temps, and know that the issues are condensation and fuel wash on the cylinders.

in most engines the cylinder walls are lubricated purely through splash and windage. excessive idling means the pistons/walls receive less lubrication then intended.

on some engines, like most american V8s, the camshaft lobes are lubricated only through splash/windage also. this is why the flat tappet cam break-in procedure is 2000rpm, at this rpm the crank is sloshing/spraying plenty of oil onto the cam. at idle not enough oil reaches the lobes.

-michael
 
quote:

Originally posted by Jimbo:
*-*-*-It is 200 hours. Imagine a highway construction site supervisor's truck. It sits there all day with flashing strobe lights on and the A/C on in summer or the heat on in winter. It might move two miles in eight hours. 200 hours would be 25 work days, just over a month.

Like today, I spent around 3/4 tank of gas, in 64 miles, 50 Stops, 40 Starts... all due to slow crawl and idle.
 
If you guys would like, I have access to many UOA's on Ford 5.4 V8's & 4.2 V6's that spend alot of time at idle with the A/C or heater on. In recent weather, these engines are started every morning & let idle for about an hour. Then, they are shut down. Some may see the road and some may sit until the next day. The also idle many times during the day for up to 45 minutes. These engines see every type of driving with different drivers. Oil is changed every 3k miles with Mobil Drive Clean 5w-30.

I will also be posting a UOA around April on my vehicle. It has a remote start and idles for at least 15 minutes almost every morning during the winter. This UOA will have about 12k miles on Amsoil ASL.
 
quote:

Originally posted by medic:
If you guys would like, I have access to many UOA's on Ford 5.4 V8's & 4.2 V6's that spend alot of time at idle with the A/C or heater on.

I like! Please post away!
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I am a signal maintainer for the rail road and my current company truck is a 98 3500 chevy with hy rail. The nature of my job is 10 to 30 minute stops for maintance sometimes longer. The truck runs all day everyday 5 or more days a week. The current mileage on the truck is 192000. The oci is 5000 miles. The auto trans has NEVER been serviced. The only real problem with the truck is fuel pumps its had 5. Dont know what kind of oil it gets for sure but i think its conoco brand 10w 30 . It amazes me how well these trucks hold up with such poor maintance. I have had fords and dodges hold up the same as this truck.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Silverado:
I guess I've been doing this all wrong then. I've been letting my truck warm up for 2 minutes before driving. I thought that would let all the internals warm up first.....I just dont like the idea of beating on a cold engine. What is standard? Should you let your engine warm up at all? I am very confused. FWIW I had no fuel in my first UOA while doing the 2 min. procedure.

I wouldn't consider 2 minutes excessive by any means. I think you have been doing it just right. Personally that 2 minutes is a minimum time-especially if you have to jump on the accelerator in less than say 10 minutes. Based on some posts with folks with oil temperature gauges it takes around 5-10 minutes after coolant temp has reached max for the Oil temp to reach its operating temp.
 
Steve, don't forget your truck, along with delivery vehicles, taxis, and police cars, has one big advantage over most other cars: none of them suffers many cold starts! One cold start can supposedly cause as much engine wear as a few hunderd miles regular driving.
 
Our Audi has an oil temp gauge. Althought the coolant temp comes up fairly quickly in cold weather, the oil temp take far, far longer to come up to 210, but once it gets there, it stays there unless I get into the turbos and then it can go up to just under 250.

When shut off, the oil cools off FAR FASTER than the coolant does based on temp gauge comparisons. I guess because all the oil in sitting below the engine and cold air is hitting the oil pan.

DEWFPO
 
Aside from the oil issue, excessive idling does not do wonders for the catlytic converter. Also the cat does not operate at normal conditions so emmission is higher especially at colder temperatures. Cat converters are designed for better performance at higher temps not colder temperatures.
 
IT IS NOT THE ENGINE GUYS.......it's the oil! If you idle for long periods of time, you are going to load the oil with fuel....FI or not; not to mention you will shorten the life of the oil dramatically.
 
my car has oil squirters that spay the underside of the pistons and cylinder walls when pressure is above 50 psi. when starting the car the pressure is 80-90 psi. do i get to idle away ?
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Well here's my 2 cents: How many of BITOG members have remote starters?
This should tell us the real truth
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quote:

Originally posted by ToyotaNSaturn:

quote:

Originally posted by Jimbo:
'94 Ford truck

If operating conditions include extensive idling, change the oil and filter every 200 operating hours, rather than using mileage intervals.


Jimbo, are you sure it doesn't read 20 hours in the owner's manual? 200 hours of operation, say at 60mph, is 12,000 miles! That seems like very long OCI when excessive idling is added in this mix.


Toyota, I am sure they have something like 200 hours or 7500 miles, whichever comes first. On farm and heavy construction equipment 100 hours is pretty typical and considering how much dirt they run in 200 might not be to bad for a pickup. I would think they might have something in their if they are in dusty conditions. I doubt most people average 60 mph, with town driving my guess is most people probably average 30 to 40 mph.
Now for the question, I have always idled my 87 bonneville with 205000 miles on it for 10 minutes in the winter and 2 to 5 minutes in the summer with no problems.
 
After getting educated (relatively speaking) on this BITOG site. I wouldn't go near a remote starter....

The ones that really scare me are the ones that will keep starting your engine and run it for only 10 mins. at a time when temps drop to a certain point. I couldn't beleive my eyes when I read this. The manufacturer was actually bragging about this option.......that you wouldn't have to worry about your car starting in sub zero weather... since it's being started at least once a hour.

Condensation to the MAX!, Crankcase oil / fuel dilution to the MAX! Acid buildup to the MAX!

The add didn't say anything about recommending changing your oil once a week if using their product....
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DEWFPO
 
I work for a car rental company that runs three shuttle buses an average of 20hrs per day, 365 days per year. They are all Fords with the 6.8 v-10. The oldest one is a 98 with approx. 43,800 hours on it. If the old rule of thumb still holds true that every hour running equals 50 miles, this means that it has 2,190,000 miles on it!!
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The engine has never been apart, it uses about a quart of oil every 60 hours, and is quiet except for some lifter noise when cold. It has only used conventional 5w30 and 5w20 since new. It used to be changed every 3,000 miles for the first 5 years of it's life, but this past year I have started changing all of them at 1 month intervals. By the way there is only 102,000 miles on the odometer. As you can see it does a LOT of idleing!
 
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