Ideas for attaching a metal frame for storm covers

JHZR2

Staff member
Messages
46,419
Location
New Jersey
My front entry door has two large sidelites, which long ago had some sort of covers over them (storm windows). They are no longer there, but as a result, the weather has started to take its toll on the paint. I want to remove the paint, caulk/seal, repaint, and then put new full-length tempered glass covers to help keep some of the water and weather off. The main door has a storm door over top of it and it looks phenomenal as a result. I know there were covers there before, because there is still a frame attached. Id like to use that frame again, since it is square and true, and both sides are consistent. What Im looking at is below: Because these will only be a frame and are a long length (84"+), Im looking to use tempered glass. It is about the same cost as plexiglas and will be more rigid and stay straight. I like that thin frame shown in the pictures, because it doesn't obstruct the glass or make the opening look smaller. The existing frame is screwed into the structure behind it, but directly behind where the frame would sit in the recess, there is nothing, so some fastening system can be applied there. Im just not as creative in these things as others on here. Any recommendations?
 
Messages
911
Location
California
Tempered glass, when shattered, in a storm may fly into thousands of small projectiles. Have you considered laminated glass for this situation?
 
Messages
6,367
Location
Midwest
Assuming you'll want it removable to clean and repaint, then you can attach the entire unit with offset clips. There's a lip on the wood for one attachment point, and it can attach directly to the frame for the other side of the clip. You might be able to find a clip with a single hole, and you can just use it to attach to the wood and hold the frame in with pressure. You'll just need to measure the offset and find the clips at your local hardware store. I've seen them in white before, or you can paint them if needed. That would make it easy to remove for cleaning, but if you don't want to remove it then you can use glazers points and caulking, or 1/4 inch quarter round to hold it in place.
 
Messages
6,367
Location
Midwest
Originally Posted By: Kool1
Tempered glass, when shattered, in a storm may fly into thousands of small projectiles. Have you considered laminated glass for this situation?
Tempered glass has more tensile strength-it can bend easier without breaking. That's why tempered glass is used in big windows or skyscrapers; it's more wind resistant. When it does shatter it shatters into cubes rather than shards which is why it's classified as a type of safety glass. That's also why tempered glass is the only type of glass permitted in shower doors. If it's that much of an issue, you can get laminated tempered glass, but that's overkill for simple sidelight windows.
 

JHZR2

Staff member
Thread starter
Messages
46,419
Location
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Assuming you'll want it removable to clean and repaint, then you can attach the entire unit with offset clips. There's a lip on the wood for one attachment point, and it can attach directly to the frame for the other side of the clip. You might be able to find a clip with a single hole, and you can just use it to attach to the wood and hold the frame in with pressure. You'll just need to measure the offset and find the clips at your local hardware store. I've seen them in white before, or you can paint them if needed. That would make it easy to remove for cleaning, but if you don't want to remove it then you can use glazers points and caulking, or 1/4 inch quarter round to hold it in place.
Thanks, thats a nice option! Yes, removable is key... So are you saying that drilling through the frame that holds the glass is an acceptable option? I wasn't sure... Thanks!
 

JHZR2

Staff member
Thread starter
Messages
46,419
Location
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Fitter30
they make custom storm windows-check with a glass company and maybe home improvement ,the other problem is heat between the glass and the side lite if you get direct sun.
There were covers there before, long ago, when a completely different looking storm door was installed. Now only the frames are there, and I don't know how the original covers were affixed. While Im not opposed to paying a company to do something like this, in this case, where there is already a frame, and I can easily make a framed pane out of tempered glass for less than $100, Im a bit hesitant to hire someone. The door and sidelites are a non-custom size.
 
Messages
6,367
Location
Midwest
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Assuming you'll want it removable to clean and repaint, then you can attach the entire unit with offset clips. There's a lip on the wood for one attachment point, and it can attach directly to the frame for the other side of the clip. You might be able to find a clip with a single hole, and you can just use it to attach to the wood and hold the frame in with pressure. You'll just need to measure the offset and find the clips at your local hardware store. I've seen them in white before, or you can paint them if needed. That would make it easy to remove for cleaning, but if you don't want to remove it then you can use glazers points and caulking, or 1/4 inch quarter round to hold it in place.
Thanks, thats a nice option! Yes, removable is key... So are you saying that drilling through the frame that holds the glass is an acceptable option? I wasn't sure... Thanks!
Maybe. I would probably just use pressure-perhaps a small piece of rubber to isolate the metal from the frame. But if you could find some small white screws and, once the glass is in place, make sure there is enough room at the edge then you could put a screw in the frame. On the wood side I'd be tempted to install some threaded inserts and use small machine screws. That would make it easier to remove the clips and frames. If you do that then it might be possible to epoxy the clips to the frame-to remove it you just remove the screw that threads into the insert in the wood.
 
Messages
13,459
Location
North Carolina
Looks like you could just take the frame to a glass shop and have it set with tempered glass. they should be able to guage it from the existing frame if its all there. Is the existing frame securely attached and easy to reattach? If its not airtight, you probably don't want it airtight as you might get condensation inside. I might go a step further and have a uv film applied to the inside of the glass. Some films are not that dark. I did that with my front door storm door. I took the storm door glass to a high quality autotinting shop for that.
 
Last edited:

JHZR2

Staff member
Thread starter
Messages
46,419
Location
New Jersey
I'm thinking I light just be able to tap the frame for an 8-32 thread, and then use standard screen door hold-downs. How many threads does one need to get a successful binding of a small threaded fastener? This is how much I have to work with:
 

JHZR2

Staff member
Thread starter
Messages
46,419
Location
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Do you need to allow for expansion and contraction of the glass and frame within the opening?
I'm more interested in these to keep rain off than to be sealed up. The sidelites aren't really drafty or cold in the winter, and the wood they are made of is pretty thick. By tapping the existing frame, I could use standard screen door window pane hod downs and thumbscrews. They either intrinsically allow for expansion and contraction, or it isn't an issue. I'd probably make the panes 1/8 or so undersize in each dimension to allow for expansion..
 
Messages
43,676
Location
'Stralia
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Tempered glass has more tensile strength-it can bend easier without breaking. That's why tempered glass is used in big windows or skyscrapers; it's more wind resistant. When it does shatter it shatters into cubes rather than shards which is why it's classified as a type of safety glass. That's also why tempered glass is the only type of glass permitted in shower doors. If it's that much of an issue, you can get laminated tempered glass, but that's overkill for simple sidelight windows.
Nope, it's a special cooling technique that puts the surface layers into compression, while the centre, which is relatively homogeneous is in an extreme state of tension. So it can handle quite high bending stresses, which are NOT uniform tension, as the outer layer on the outermost tensile face is still in compression. scratch that outer compressive layer, and all of the stored energy of the inner/outer tensile/compressive battle causes it to rupture into the "safety" glass cubes. Extreme example is a Prince Rupert's drop, where some of them you can actually see the shrinkage void in the middle of the drop.
 
Top