I want to try a "designer" oil.

Pennzoil motor oil
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Originally Posted By: Ben99GT


Mobil 1 Extended Performance? Maybe. I don't see this long drain emphasis from M1's regular line though.



Mobil 1 0w-40 might just make the long drain interval further than their EP formulas. It meets BMW's Long Life spec. That has to mean something.

You might be right about the rest of their regular line though.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I think the myth he refuted was that esters will immediately attract oceans of water and then instantly break apart into a shower of acids. That's very different from saying they're as good as PAO in those respects.


Originally Posted By: Dave at Red Line
Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, our oils are designed and suitable for extended drain intervals, once past warranty we recommend a drain interval of 10 to 18,000 miles or at least once a year. The lower molecular weight esters tend to be hygroscopic, our oils use higher molecular weight stocks that don't exhibit that tendency. At operating temperatures moisture from combustion is released as the case with other stocks.


Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Redline's reply is correct. Hydroscopic refers to a liquid's capacity to absorb and solubilize water. Higher molecular weight esters will only solubilize 0.1 to 0.2% water, and even this will be released under vacuum and heat.

Tom NJ


You are promoting stereotypes of esters and applying them to Red Line, but the shoe doesn't fit it seems.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Generally you can tell a lot about a product by reading between the lines of their advertising. Red Line says almost nothing about drain intervals except that one line, which is not that impressive any more. However, they do talk a lot about handing extreme conditions. By contrast, Mobil 1 has been talking about long drain intervals for a long time, and they talk constantly about running a long time between changes. If this doesn't reflect those companies' priorities in formulating their oils, they're doing something very wrong...

As for your "stereotypes" comment... Are you suggesting that ester base stocks are just as water-repellent and hydrolytically stable as Group III and PAO base stocks? If so, I think you should have a word with all lube formulators everywhere...


It may be that all Mobil 1 has to offer is extended drains while Redline has a couple strengths to choose from...
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This is an honest question, does any Mobil 1 product claim anything close to an 18,000 mile interval?
 
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
You are promoting stereotypes of esters and applying them to Red Line, but the shoe doesn't fit it seems.

Let me know when you're ready to read the entirety of what I'm saying and respond to the point I actually made, as I made it, without oversimplifying or distorting.
 
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
This is an honest question, does any Mobil 1 product claim anything close to an 18,000 mile interval?

Mobil refers to the manufacturer, and Porsche specs 20,000 miles...
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
This is an honest question, does any Mobil 1 product claim anything close to an 18,000 mile interval?

Mobil refers to the manufacturer, and Porsche specs 20,000 miles...



Yes, but isn't that something like the OEM spec with the OEM oil? Not to mention (probably) an eight to ten quart sump?

The only point I'm making is that even XOM only trusts their own premier product to 15k to account for "consumer drift". Amsoil is not on any OEM list. There is no spec'd interval with using Amsoil from the OEM other than the generic OEM interval.

So, basically detune Amsoil ..slap an Mobil 1 Extended Performance label on it ..put it on the shelf ....and get a WHOLE NEW opinion of the product line.


To the OP: @ 200miles/day ..I'd be using SSO or HDD ..or ACD and shooting for 6 month OCI's. Even at 15k you're doing 3 service points a year.

Whatever oil I chose ..I'd just go on a time base since your mileage is so incredibly high. I'd start with 3 months and do a used oil analysis. Any premier oil will do that without breaking a sweat. Then advance to 4 months and do another used oil analysis. That should give you a decent idea how viable 6 months is.

..but you seem to be dedicated to the 7500 mile deal. I don't even think you need a synthetic for that with the type of driving you're doing.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Yes, but isn't that something like the OEM spec with the OEM oil? Not to mention (probably) an eight to ten quart sump?

What's your point?

In the Q&A quoted above, Red Line says "up to 15,000-18,000 miles". Maybe 15,000 miles is the limit with the same parameters as in Mobil 1 Extended Performance estimate, and 18,000 miles is in a Porsche sump. There's nothing to say either way.

Then Dave says "10,000 to 18,000 miles". Which is it?

None of those claims has any parameters attached to it. We all know they're meaningless without them. That's why I was referring to trends in the marketing speak, not the claims themselves.


Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Amsoil is not on any OEM list. There is no spec'd interval with using Amsoil from the OEM other than the generic OEM interval.

So, basically detune Amsoil ..slap an Mobil 1 Extended Performance label on it ..put it on the shelf ....and get a WHOLE NEW opinion of the product line.

Not sure what point you were trying to make here, but Amsoil is actually a great example of the point I was trying to make. Huge drain intervals are listed in the descriptions of most of the products. What happens in the field? Lo and behold, Amsoil happens to be one of the best (if not THE best) for long drains.

Again, trends in the marketing speak, not claims themselves.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Yes, but isn't that something like the OEM spec with the OEM oil? Not to mention (probably) an eight to ten quart sump?

What's your point?

In the Q&A quoted above, Red Line says "up to 15,000-18,000 miles". Maybe 15,000 miles is the limit with the same parameters as in Mobil 1 Extended Performance estimate, and 18,000 miles is in a Porsche sump. There's nothing to say either way.

Then Dave says "10,000 to 18,000 miles". Which is it?

None of those claims has any parameters attached to it. We all know they're meaningless without them. That's why I was referring to trends in the marketing speak, not the claims themselves.


Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Amsoil is not on any OEM list. There is no spec'd interval with using Amsoil from the OEM other than the generic OEM interval.

So, basically detune Amsoil ..slap an Mobil 1 Extended Performance label on it ..put it on the shelf ....and get a WHOLE NEW opinion of the product line.

Not sure what point you were trying to make here, but Amsoil is actually a great example of the point I was trying to make. Huge drain intervals are listed in the descriptions of most of the products. What happens in the field? Lo and behold, Amsoil happens to be one of the best (if not THE best) for long drains.

Again, trends in the marketing speak, not claims themselves.


What I get from all of this is there really doesn't seem to be enough difference to declare a high mileage winner. I think it's safe to say Redline will hold it's own against M1 in extended drains. Amsoil may be the winner though.
 
Quote:
What's your point?


My only point was that when an OEM spec's a given oil with a given OCI, that product is certified (so to speak) for that usage. Any other product (not on the approval list) ..or even the SAME product in another application, that validation ..even by the blender/producer goes out the window.

I'm attempting to point out that while a few (mainly big sump Euro's) OEM's spec very long drains (relatively speaking) that they don't recommend anywhere near that length of service with their extended drain oils outside of those certified chassis.


Essentially: Don't lend M1 some magical property JUST because it's spec'd for a long drain in a large sump where the OEM and XOM configured it just for that purpose. XOM doesn't even have that faith in the product outside of those confines.

Meanwhile, Amsoil virtually has EVERY product that they sell targeted specifically for such usage.

That's all
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That makes sense. I was only responding to the 18,000 mile claim by Red Line, which for all we know was made under similarly rare circumstances.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Let me know when you're ready to read the entirety of what I'm saying and respond to the point I actually made, as I made it, without oversimplifying or distorting.


Let me know when you make a relevant point, one not based on bad info/rule of thumb/stereotype, as it applies to the particular ester based oil in question.

Regarding distortion, you said:
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
...esters in general are not that well suited to very long drain applications because they are hygroscopic...


Yet Dave at Red Line says:
Quote:
The lower molecular weight esters tend to be hygroscopic, our oils use higher molecular weight stocks that don't exhibit that tendency.


And Tom NJ backs him up
Quote:
Redline's reply is correct. Hydroscopic refers to a liquid's capacity to absorb and solubilize water. Higher molecular weight esters will only solubilize 0.1 to 0.2% water, and even this will be released under vacuum and heat.


Now please, feel free to point out any distortions I've made regarding your blanket statement.
 
Originally Posted By: hpichris
From the looks at all the recent posts at BITOG lately, Red Line is the new Amsoil. :)
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I think that's a good thing.
 
I does look like RL is the new favorite designer oil, at least for about the past 2 months or so. I still have a 6 month supply of Amsoil. I wonder what the BITOG darling will be when I run out of the Amsoil?
 
I have no problem with bitog favorites, as long as they are eventually backed up with a multitude of beautiful used oil analysis
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Otherwise, it's marketing getting the best of us... again
 
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT


Mobil 1 Extended Performance? Maybe. I don't see this long drain emphasis from M1's regular line though.



Mobil 1 0w-40 might just make the long drain interval further than their EP formulas. It meets BMW's Long Life spec. That has to mean something.

You might be right about the rest of their regular line though.


M1's 0w40 should give the OP the same interval as RL. If he wants longer Amsoil's sso for sure. With his ideal conditions he could possibly maximize Amsoil's 25k guarantee.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I would trust Mobil 1 0w-40 over Red Line for long drains, but that's just me...


Why?
 
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