4wd
$50 site donor 2026
After having NG and propane gens - the gummed up carbs are just bad memories - Well, until we go camping and I’ll just order a new carb and fuel lines in advance
I found this interesting, regarding the cold...........
- Thread starter demarpaint
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All similar considerations and I appreciate your walkthrough on how you approached them. I had a similar set of electric demands when I lived in Vermont - well, septic, fridge, and, of course, heat, since the power went out during ice storms. I designed and built the house, and it had an “essential circuit” transfer panel for the genset.
The ROI is an important consideration in this house, writing the check isn’t the issue, it’s how long do we enjoy that new capability?
Mrs. Astro retires this year, and we are planning a move to be closer to kids/grandkids and other important considerations, so, we would not keep the house long enough to have any R on the I no matter what option we choose. The portability of the EV was actually a consideration, too, since we would be keeping the car.
Ultimately, we have settled on a plug in hybrid for the next car, we aren’t quite at the BEV point, and have a couple more planning steps before writing that check. The hope is to pick it up in Sweden this fall, and do a bit of touring.
Back on topic - EV and cold weather is another planning consideration, not a deal-breaker. Just something of which you have to be aware. My first several cars had carburetors, and you had to operate and plan differently in extreme cold.
I think folks have become so used to computer-controlled systems on a modern ICE that they’re spoiled by them.
Zero thinking or planning required.
There was a time when I had a diesel car, and a carbureted car, so, when it got cold, I had to think and plan. Not hard to apply that skill set to an EV, but I sure see the resistance to having to think and plan with any car.
I preconditioned the car some, but not fully. I did not program destination in from 100+ mi away as you're supposed to. However, when I got to EA, I found the area well kept, snow pushed away, chargers accessible. One charger didn't get along with me, so I moved to the one next to it, and promptly began charging. It started at 58% SoC and 44kw charge speed. As I said, I didn't condition the car properly. The heat of charging raised it to 47kw by the time I disconnected at 64% SoC 8 minutes later. Slow, didn't do my part optimally, but still very far from a Tesla graveyard issue. Ambient temp 13f.
A PHEV is a great compromise.
On the cold EV front - yup
Cold weather EV data has been available as well as online freezing weather charging tests for years now.
Guys have done tests using cars that sat for days, warm cars, road trips it's all there if one is interested.
It's just not that tricky or hard, for guys that commute and charge at home its easier than ice they never even see a range hit, and the car is warm and ready for them in the morning even parked in a freezing garage.
Guys parking outside for days with no charger access living on the bottom of their capacity could have a problem.
On the cold EV front - yup
Cold weather EV data has been available as well as online freezing weather charging tests for years now.
Guys have done tests using cars that sat for days, warm cars, road trips it's all there if one is interested.
It's just not that tricky or hard, for guys that commute and charge at home its easier than ice they never even see a range hit, and the car is warm and ready for them in the morning even parked in a freezing garage.
Guys parking outside for days with no charger access living on the bottom of their capacity could have a problem.
Sorry Whiplash but this video makes too much sense and "the agenda" will never accept ICE engines until they are proven wrong, which is FINALLY starting to come out.
EVs in their present form will not replace the ICE. It's impossible, a fairytale. I love technology but I am too smart to know in its present form it can not work or be practical for the entire population. In this respect this guy explains it so well. Another key point, that I have pointed out in here over and over. EU countries are tiny compared to the land mass of the USA. Im tired of hearing about countries that contain a small fraction of our population adoption rate of EVs. The land mass of the USA is almost 100% larger and the average American drives double the mileage.
Im not even taking a stance on how foolish the drive to EVs are. They can serve a purpose but those who think they are saving mother earth, well, I have a bridge for sale, cheap.
Great video, once again, Im not against EVs any more than I am against Electric Golf Carts but they are not taking over the world. I may even have one for a second car one day but it will never be the primary car. It does not make sense for my use. Its certainly an impossibility (as he pointed out) if you live in a condo or apartment which much of the worlds population does.
Im reposting your link here again.
Yeah, it seems your drivetrain is pretty "smart", and probably uses almost all the traction control tricks that an electric drivetrain can have implemented pretty easily and well. It would be interesting to see how it works, as it probably is monitoring applied torque to each axle for a range of wheelspin speeds and finds the optimum amount and adjusts this in real time. What happens when you hit a patch of bare pavement coming off snow? Instant acceleration increase, or a moment of hesitation before applying more power?
I am always disappointed in how gas drivetrains traction control works, as they first try some brakes and then have big power cut, pause, then reapply power, so usually for autocross the car is always faster if you just disable traction control and use your brain and right foot.... Electrics don't usually(ever?) give you the option of true power control with right foot, but seem to do TC well enough not to be a big annoyance.
Let's be fair, gasoline is portable, you can always drive for it.
The EV as a back up generator for a home can be attractive for a short duration but not a long one and you yourself will also have a gasoline vehicle for reliability to get where you need to go using the EV for house power.
A generator is a more complete solution, if one has NG or maybe even propane it's a non issue.
The only thing that I did want to comment on in your posts, you bring up the cost of the generator and with the car you get it for free.
Well the battery life for powering your home will be limited but the cost of the EV over a gasoline car is equal to or less if you buy a gas car and separate generator.
Im really not saying good or bad, it's just that EVs in general are special purpose vehicles for people. Gasoline is much more for general reliable use. You brought up Hurricane/Super Storm Sandy as an example. My brother had a home on the Great South Bay of Long Island for decades. Super Storm Sandy brought in Ocean water that submerged the first floor of the home and 3 feet into the second floor. The only dry floor was the third floor. A generator would have hands down made more sense, gasoline was only a mile or two away, he also had NG in the house. His cars needed to be moved blocks away so they didnt get submerged so an EV would not have worked. But what is worse is. IN past minor floods once in a great while his car or cars did get wet with salt water. Not exactly a good thing with EVs, I noticed your street, the last thing on planet earth is you want salt water anywhere near your EV.
Which brings me back to EVs are special purpose. Not everyone can have one, the video someone posted as a good example, also long stays in parking lots for months like another posted, forget if you live in a city, apartments, hi-rises, condos. Impossible to have an EV. I had a business in NYC which must had had well more than 2000 (heck 3000? 4000? I dont know) condos and apartments surrounding me, no way would an EV work for those families.
One last time, I may have one myself one day but it will be special use, in the sense it will not go on long trips or long day trips, it will be a local driven second car, limited in my mind like a golf cart. I use that word a lot because they are all over the place where I live.
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There is no epiphany here.
He's right about what can and cant be electrified, and that we aren't reducing anything if we simply power everything in the future with coal.
None of this will stop EV's from being the fastest growing auto segment for the foreseeable future, or our countries insatiable need for more energy for numerous uses.
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Also something to note is the change in words used for these things. It was "global warming" and now it's "climate change". It was "going green", then it changed to "zero emissions" (which was even a badge on the Nissan's, if I remember correctly), now it's simply "electric".
A quote from either Jordan Peterson or Chris Williamson's podcast: Control the language and you control the ideas.
A quote from either Jordan Peterson or Chris Williamson's podcast: Control the language and you control the ideas.
I agree, a significant amount of the population will find an EV useful, as I would too. Maybe right now @5% if that. I dont see what that cant grow to 20% That is significant. I do think they would flop if I wasnt chipping in my household income for others to buy them, though as I may one day take other peoples money to buy one.
My only posts are that battery powered EVs can not replace the ICE as a majority, its not possible and there is no reason for it.
For “super storm Sandy” in New York coastal areas - a generator would have been underwater, too. At that point - it was a waste of money.Let's be fair, gasoline is portable, you can always drive for it.
The EV as a back up generator for a home can be attractive for a short duration but not a long one.
A generator is a more complete solution, if one has NG or maybe even propane it's a non issue.
The only thing that I did want to comment on in your posts, you bring up the cost of the generator and with the car you get it for free.
Well the battery life for powering your home will be limited but the cost of the EV over a gasoline car is equal to or less if you buy a gas car and separate generator.
Im really not saying good or bad, it's just that EVs in general are special purpose vehicles for people. Gasoline is much more for general reliable use. You brought up Hurricane/Super Storm Sandy as an example. My brother had a home on the Great South Bay of Long Island for decades. Super Storm Sandy brought in Ocean water that submerged the first floor of the home and 3 feet into the second floor. The only dry floor was the third floor. A generator would have hands down made more sense, gasoline was only a mile or two away, he also had NG in the house. His cars needed to be moved blocks away so they didnt get submerged so an EV would not have worked. But what is worse is. IN past minor floods once in a great while his car or cars did get wet with salt water. Not exactly a good thing with EVs.
Which brings me back to EVs are special purpose. Not everyone can have one, the video someone posted as a good example, also long stays in parking lots for months like another posted, forget if you live in a city, apartments, hi-rises, condos. Impossible to have an EV. I had a business in NYC which must had had well more than 2000 (heck 3000? 4000? I dont know) condos and apartments surrounding me, no way would an EV work for those families.
One last time, I may have one myself one day but it will be special use, in the sense it will not go on long trips or long day trips, it will be a local driven second car, limited in my mind like a golf cart. I use that word a lot because they are all over the place where I live.
I think I’ve said it before - we can‘t have a generator in our garage, obviously, and a generator in our yard gets submerged.
So, portable generator is right out. The only option is a genset that would be mounted several feet above ground level, just like our heat pump. That requires a crane for the install. Again, I’ve looked at all the options.
But, let us be honest, if we are talking about a storm of that magnitude, the question is not how “am I going to power my house?” the question is, “will the house survive?”, even if the answer to that is yes, spoiled food is the least of your worries, you should’ve evacuated, anyway.
In your brother’s case, no generator would’ve survived, unless it was on the third floor. Most people don’t put their generator on the third floor. Also, in his case, it would have been foolish to stay in the house with that storm surge.
It isn’t the wind that kills people during hurricanes, it’s the storm surge.
I would not call an EV “special use“, it meets about 90% of our daily driving requirements. That’s not special, that’s common.
But, it’s making certain that we have a vehicle for the other 10%. That is the principal concern over an EV For us.
4wd
$50 site donor 2026
Yeah, you would think it’s far enough along to let the free market score the W’s and L’s with no help from the referees …
My wife's cousin bought a Leaf some years back (I think he's on his third one now) and told me about the reimbursements he was getting and it blew my mind. Thousands of dollars. It really got under my skin so I said "Well I'm glad I could help". To which he got extremely defensive about how the money comes from this, that, and the other. About how "everything is going electric, dude. Might as well get on the bandwagon". Etc - all the usual stuff.
I ended the conversation by stating that anytime the government is giving you money there is a reason behind it. And it isn't to save the planet.
Someone on the early pages of this thread said that the "narrative" is all in your head (something along those lines. I just can't remember, not trying to patronize). I just cannot grasp the blindness there. If politics/gov't are pushing something there is guaranteed to be a reason behind it that is NOT the same as they say it is.
I truly believe this is painfully obvious once you get off social media and stop watching the news. Granted, this is a social media platform as well. But deleting facebook, instagram, and not watching news channels on TV opens your eyes immensely. What happens is you realize that things aren't really that bad. As soon as you start dipping your toe into the internet/media info pool again it isn't more than a week and the thoughts of the world falling apart start coming back. It's wild.
The point is from the late 1800's to now, EV's have appeared time and time again on the car market. They had some appeal. But that appeal was quickly lost, and the masses returned to ICE vehicles. And for good reason.
Today the oil industry is worldwide, and bigger than ever. They're not going to sit idly by, and watch their product, that brings in trillions of dollars every year, (and will for several decades more), vanish because of false claims, and stupid "green politics" that are as foolish as they are lacking any solid, proven fact.
Right now the fact is EV's are no threat to ICE. And I don't care what the liberal politicians say or promise. They simply can't deliver. They don't have the money, let alone the technology to make it all happen.
Forcing all Americans into EV's with government mandates, in such a short period of time, would be an unmitigated disaster.
Lithium Ion batteries cannot be made in enough quantity worldwide, without mining the Earth into a 10 times bigger ecological mess, than emissions from modern ICE vehicles ever could hope to.
This thread proves yet again that EV's are not sustainable, or reliable in frigid climates. Problems abound in cold weather. And that encompasses a very large geographical percentage of this nation.
Much the same could be said about wind power during the Texas Winter storm of 2021. It failed just as spectacularly. All this crap has to work all the time. Not just when you can wear polo shirts and cargo shorts.
4wd
$50 site donor 2026
I am west of Houston and we have trucked fuel to Louisiana before - all hands of deck when it comes to storms …
I also know two fuel stations here on the best grid … bet 90% of folks will eventually know that too
A portable generator would have made more sense as it could have been parked on the third floor until the water receded but that was an extreme (one off) for one storm in decades of living there so its really not much to discuss. Im talking over 40 year period of storms, not the one worst one.
It wasnt an extreme for them to have to move their cars for more minor storms and at times, a surprise flood like in your driveway that would have certainly wet the bottom of a car or EV, once in a rare while the doors.
Agree, the EV fits you, as it would me but we both will have back up gasoline vehicles. Apartment dwellers, condo owners, even many retirees ditch the second car and of course less fortunate people will not have a back up.
I do like your idea for back up power. I have thought about it myself and have been looking at generators but people who lived here for the last decade tell me one time did they need their generac and why the car idea might be better for something that may never happen here or once or twice every ten years.
I find people fascinating, Everyone moving here from the Northeast (as you know) think we are going to have blackouts every hurricane season and one of the first things they start doing is getting whole house generators. It is amazing! *LOL* they are all over th place under those pale green covers. But when people post on our community forum the long timers in the older 20 year section said, last big power failure was 2018 and lasted (I forgot how long) more or less, his thought was dont waste your money. Yet, all my neighbors in my new section of our new home seems like they are getting or have one. Of course I am the outlier and my wife will hold it against me for the rest of my life if we have a black out *LOL*
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dnewton3
Staff member
Here's why these kinds of comparisons are not really as meaningful as you'd think.
Traction is a direct function of vehicle weight and coefficient of friction (CoF).
While it is true that the EV does best going up in this video, it has little to do with the EV drive system itself. It excels because of the weight advantage.
Furthermore, these cars don't have the same tires on them; so the available traction is also altered by tire choice. And the surface isn't being kept consistent.
It's an apples to tangerines comparison.
As the video stands, the test has five variables (driver, tire, weight, drive system, surface). This is no different than all the other YT videos that use junk science to lead viewers to an illogical conclusion. This is the PF effect strewn across the 'net. Want a fair way to assess the EV AWD drive vs. ICE AWD drive?
- make the car weights the same
- put the same brand/model/size tire on the cars
- use the same driver for all tests
- run the test in undisturbed surface area (this is big; see why below)
That set of conditions would allow you to assess the drive system as the sole variable.
As for the surface of the test track, the first car up in that tight off-camber corner was the EV. Then the RS6, then RS3. If you noticed, the EV slipped it's tires a bit (not much). When that happens, it removes some of the surface snow, and reveals a slicker surface. So when the RS6 hits that same area, the surface is not the same. And the RS6 further spins its tires and slicks the surface, pretty much down to the ice underneath. By the time the RS3 gets its chance, that corner is mostly ice and very little snow. You should never run subsequent trials in the same area because the surface is modified each time a tire slips on that surface. What would have happened if the RS6 went up that off-camber trial first, then the RS3, and then left that corner for the EV to try last? I doubt the results would have been the same.
This video is a good real-world example of how non-scientific experiments lead gullible people into making illogical conclusions.
The EV did well; I'm not taking that away from it. It's impressive. But it also did well because of weight, tires and going first in the most demanding part of the test.
Traction, again, specific use. Here in the south pointless and honestly most of the mid Atlantic states. Front wheel drive is perfect, rear wheel drive is fine. No need for anything else.
But if you do need it, you can buy it in either EV or ICE. IN the ICE version you wont have to worry about recharging even if the EV version for some reason beats the ICE version, its extremely limited special use vehicle that you will have those conditions in many places.
But if you do need it, you can buy it in either EV or ICE. IN the ICE version you wont have to worry about recharging even if the EV version for some reason beats the ICE version, its extremely limited special use vehicle that you will have those conditions in many places.
Since no two vehicles can travel the same patch of ice or snow, this can never be proven.
But real world experience here, having owned and driven ICE with good AWD systems, and EV, on the same tires, I can tell you the EV is the better tool for the job. You cannot argue with the physics of a propulsion system that can infinitely and instantly modulate power from 0 rpm. Just can't be beat, all things equal.
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