I found this interesting, regarding the cold...........

[Astro14]

I live in a very rural area north of Raleigh (NC capital) and not only do we have very weak cellular signal, we have frequent power outages (summer or winter). I’m certain that there are plenty of areas similar to mine. EVs can work inner city for now. These remote areas have years to go before there is dependable infrastructure to support home vehicle charging. Most folks out here can’t afford a home generator.

I live where power is unreliable as a result of storms, particularly hurricanes.

That consideration is, in fact, a reason in favor of an EV.

The option to power the house using the EV is far more attractive than a generator (and using a generator to charge an EV is horribly inefficient and expensive).

I can keep the EV if I move, for example, and I am only buying a car, not a car and a generator.

 

[whiplash473]

I'll speak for myself but I do believe that it's a common issue that get blurred - It isn't that us combustion guys have a problem with EV as much as we don't like it constantly being forces upon us. "Go green, go green, go green" is nauseating at this point. I mean look at the car commercials.

Somewhere on pages two through four of this thread, someone mentioned about a Nordic country (I think Sweden) and someone mentioned how anti-EV folks all of the sudden become environmentalists when the topic arises.

To the "Nordic EV-mandated capitol" discussion - They also don't use the term "green" because they understand there is no "green" vehicle. I think it's difficult to use that as an example when they themselves say that the manufacturing and disposal of road vehicles, ICE or EV, is not environmentally friendly.

To the "sudden environmentalist anti-EV" discussion - I don't think it's that all of the sudden people change their tune on the matter as much as it is a solid foot to stand on when the pro-EV narrative is constantly being forced down our throats. The same goes for the diesel world with the disposal of emissions systems, which fail with a fair amount of frequency. It isn't that all of the sudden diesel tuck guys flip over to being environmentalists, it's that we have to deal with this garbage on our trucks and have to deal with the issues that follow. It's a solid wall to back up to when being pushed against.

 

[demarpaint]

Its just the opposite. Most EV buyers want to believe the best about their purchase regardless of its flaws and issues, because if they don't, it illustrates they made a mistake.

They will call their EV's great regardless.

I agree, but hat's human nature, and goes pretty much for any questionable purchases. Making a mistake can be tough to admit. What this thread reinforces for me is the EV is not what it's cracked up to be, especially when it comes to cold winter weather. I'm certain lessons will be learned, and hopefully improvements will result.

 

[billt460]

Everybody is talking about the cold weather failures of EV's, but I hate to even think about owning one when a hurricane comes in and blown down power lines cause electrical outages for two or more weeks. Hurricane Rita left us without power for 17 days. Ike was 15 days. If that happens, EV owners ain't moving...

And don't forget all the salt water flooding that comes with costal hurricanes. That plays hell with most ANY vehicle. But with EV's it is especially destructive.

When hurricane Idalia hit Florida, fire departments were putting out fires in these things several days after the hurricane subsided. All caused by salt water short circuits.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hurricane-idalia-electric-car-caught-fire-tesla/

 

[4LeggedFrog]

As far as EV’s, we are just not there yet.

 

[Astro14]

And don't forget all the salt water flooding that comes with costal hurricanes. That plays hell with most ANY vehicle. But with EV's it is especially destructive.

When hurricane Idalia hit Florida, fire departments were putting out fires in these things several days after the hurricane subsided. All caused by salt water short circuits.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hurricane-idalia-electric-car-caught-fire-tesla/

I am familiar with the flooding. It is a reality where I live, in fact, we had a bit last night.

Nobody who lives by the coast, in “low country” has “forgotten” about salt water flooding.

It’s like saying, “don’t forget about the summer heat” to someone who lives in Arizona - as if they could forget!

Moving the cars out of harm’s way in the event of storm surge/flooding is part of hurricane prep. But on the back side of the storm, when the power is out, the water is gone - and that is when the ability to power the house (fridge and freezer particularly) using the EV becomes very attractive.

 

[PontiacHO]

I live where power is unreliable as a result of storms, particularly hurricanes.

That consideration is, in fact, a reason in favor of an EV.

The option to power the house using the EV is far more attractive than a generator (and using a generator to charge an EV is horribly inefficient and expensive).

I can keep the EV if I move, for example, and I am only buying a car, not a car and a generator.

Chicken or egg?? Sound logic?

 

[Trav]

I see a lot of the kind of stuff I see that I used to see on Usenet groups. VW fans trying to make it sound like Hondas had issues or especially one guy who was practially trolling a Saturn group trying to tell everyone that they made a bad decision or shouldn't consider it if in the market for a car.

The signal to noise ratio on this particular subform is considerably lowered by a lot of those who obviously aren't EV drivers or considering them - just looking for anything that puts EVs in a negative light. I've enjoyed the discussions where there's real-world advice or sharing of direct experiences, whether it's good, bad, or indifferent. This is the kind of discussion that bring downs a lot of forums with excessive arguments.

Consider the forum you are posting on. Bitog, is not an ev forum and IMHO a sub forum for them should never have been included on the main site. They have an RV forum so if there was an separate ev forum most of us would not even bother to look at it, I certainly would not.

 

[gfh77665]

And don't forget all the salt water flooding that comes with costal hurricanes.

I can't ever forget flooding. I lived through Harvey and Ike. Lost all my cars and one of my homes went 7 feet deep. Almost 5 feet of rain in 4 days.

Rita, though, is a great example of a high wind hurricane that had minimal flooding but blew down many power lines.

 

[demarpaint]

Consider the forum you are posting on. Bitog, is not an ev forum and IMHO a sub forum for them should never have been included on the main site. They have an RV forum so if there was an separate ev forum most of us would not even bother to look at it, I certainly would not.

+1 A spin off would be a great idea, and attract EV enthusiasts. You can be certain people who don't own, like, or want an EV will not join. Win win for everyone imo.

 

[Astro14]

Consider the forum you are posting on. Bitog, is not an ev forum and IMHO a sub forum for them should never have been included on the main site. They have an RV forum so if there was a separate ev forum most of us would not even bother to look at it, I certainly would not.

We discussed, debated, that consideration - should an oil forum have an EV section?

The practical reality - the BITOG members posted about EV frequently - it was a large part of the member’s interests, and posts.

We added the section in response to member behaviour, to member demand.

Put simply - you guys wanted it. Not you, @Trav or you, @demarpaint but a lot of guys were talking about EV.

 

[billt460]

I am familiar with the flooding. It is a reality where I live, in fact, we had a bit last night.

Nobody who lives by the coast, in “low country” has “forgotten” about salt water flooding.

It’s like saying, “don’t forget about the summer heat” to someone who lives in Arizona - as if they could forget!

Moving the cars out of harm’s way in the event of storm surge/flooding is part of hurricane prep. But on the back side of the storm, when the power is out, the water is gone - and that is when the ability to power the house (fridge and freezer particularly) using the EV becomes very attractive.

But isn't it more realistic in your case to simply purchase a decent sized generator? I have 3 of them, and could easily power most everything we would ever require, even the A/C in the Summer.

I think I know you well enough to know you are the type of individual who maintains and takes care of things. Dual fuel generators are easy to maintain.

Propane never goes bad, and properly treated fuel can and does last up to, and well over a year. 2 of mine are electric start, and are easily kept charged with a 1 amp battery maintainer. They've got wheels, and are easy to move around.

Keeping them full of fuel, and having the ability to draw gas from 3 vehicles, that have a combined total of 4 tanks, (which I try to keep somewhat full), would keep them running for a few weeks.

I can't picture an EV providing that kind of power for anywhere near that long. And hurricanes can easily knock out power for days to weeks.

 

[demarpaint]

I live where power is unreliable as a result of storms, particularly hurricanes.

That consideration is, in fact, a reason in favor of an EV.

The option to power the house using the EV is far more attractive than a generator (and using a generator to charge an EV is horribly inefficient and expensive).

I can keep the EV if I move, for example, and I am only buying a car, not a car and a generator.

No disrespect, to me while that seems like a good idea I remember being w/o power for over a week with Sandy. I could see powering the house with the EV, but the wildcard is how long is the power going to be out? No one know for sure. You could be left with a dead car, and no power, especially in a case like Sandy. With an ICE car as a back up in the event of an emergency requiring driving, no problem. Only an EV, a real problem, and I recall reading some people planning on owning only an EV. I'd rather have a propane or natural gas generator, especially if I was someone wanting to go all EVs. JMO

 

[demarpaint]

We discussed, debated, that consideration - should an oil forum have an EV section?

The practical reality - the BITOG members posted about EV frequently - it was a large part of the member’s interests, and posts.

We added the section in response to member behaviour, to member demand.

Put simply - you guys wanted it. Not you, @Trav or you, @demarpaint but a lot of guys were talking about EV.

Understood. Maybe in time it will grow to a point where it becomes a profitable spinoff.

 

[Astro14]

Chicken or egg?? Sound logic?

Absolutely my logic is sound -

The ability to store a large amount of any unreliable commodity is an advantage.

A cistern in the desert, for example, allows you to capture surplus water to cover the eventual shortage. A big battery to store electricity in anticipation of a shortage is the same thing - prudent preparation for a shortage.

Using the EV battery for more than just moving the car around is efficient - dual purposing an expensive household item allows you to avoid the purchase of two expensive items - car and generator.

After a hurricane, when the power is out, I’m not going to be going to work or driving around. I can use that battery for a more important purpose. I can anticipate the storm arrival and let it charge to 100% - topping off the storage in anticipation of trouble.

That capability is actually attractive.

That said, the Powerwall is even more attractive - in conjunction with solar. If we were keeping this house, I would have solar and a power wall. We have a south exposure, room for the panels, incentives to buy, and good sun throughout the year.

The Powerwall offers weather and water resistant storage of electricity, recharged by the solar array. No hauling gasoline around for a generator (and gasoline is hard to come by after a storm).

 

[PontiacHO]

That’s a hellacious battery then. One that doesn’t ever run down. Amazing!!!

 

[Astro14]

No disrespect, to me while that seems like a good idea I remember being w/o power for over a week with Sandy. I could see powering the house with the EV, but the wildcard is how long is the power going to be out? No one know for sure. You could be left with a dead car, and no power, especially in a case like Sandy. With an ICE car as a back up in the event of an emergency requiring driving, no problem. Only an EV, a real problem, and I recall reading some people planning on owning only an EV. I'd rather have a propane or natural gas generator, especially if I was someone wanting to go all EVs. JMO

We were without power for a day with Sandy - while New York made the news, I had several feet of water in the street. I was stuck in Colorado for training, so, Mrs. Astro had to deal with it.

A natural gas generator (and we do have natural gas at the house for our furnace, stove, hot water, grille and fire pit) is a very viable option. But it is an expensive buy and expensive install.

One of the key considerations - Mrs. Astro has to be able to handle it. Just as I was caught out of town by Sandy, odds are that I won't be here. So, for all the guys thinking that I can haul gasoline cans, or drag out a generator, forget it, she has to be the one handling it. Which changes the planning considerably.

So, viable options: a car that can plug in, a power wall that is automatic, a generator that is automatic.

If I am buying the EV car anyway, then, that option becomes an attractive feature of the car, and I save the cost of the powerwall or the generator, both of which top the $10K mark, by the way.

I’ve seen worse, we have had bigger storm surge, and I move the cars completely out in that case, but here is our street during Sandy. The dog is swimming. You are seeing the shallow part, it is deeper to the left. The driveway is steeply sloped. The white mailbox (ours) is just over 4 feet above the street, the water, a few inches below that.

 

[Astro14]

That’s a hellacious battery then. One that doesn’t ever run down. Amazing!!!

Of course it runs down.

Shocking fact: so does your gasoline supply when running a generator.

Gas stations are often closed during and after hurricanes, so, in a crisis, one has to manage the supply of available resource.

Whether it is water, food, electricity, or gasoline.

 

[gfh77665]

Gas stations are often closed during and after hurricanes, so, in a crisis, one has to manage the supply of available resource.

My brother had fuel stored up which ran his house (with A/C) for several days. Then, he travelled 80-90 miles away to an area outside the direct hurricane path and refilled his fuel containers. That bought him another 5-6 days. I think he might have later made a 2nd trip of about 50 miles, and got through the 17 days just fine.

 

[UncleDave]

We were without power for a day with Sandy - while New York made the news, I had several feet of water in the street. I was stuck in Colorado for training, so, Mrs. Astro had to deal with it.

A natural gas generator (and we do have natural gas at the house for our furnace, stove, hot water, grille and fire pit) is a very viable option. But it is an expensive buy and expensive install.

One of the key considerations - Mrs. Astro has to be able to handle it. Just as I was caught out of town by Sandy, odds are that I won't be here. So, for all the guys thinking that I can haul gasoline cans, or drag out a generator, forget it, she has to be the one handling it. Which changes the planning considerably.

So, viable options: a car that can plug in, a power wall that is automatic, a generator that is automatic.

If I am buying the EV car anyway, then, that option becomes an attractive feature of the car, and I save the cost of the powerwall or the generator, both of which top the $10K mark, by the way.

I’ve seen worse, we have had bigger storm surge, and I move the cars completely out in that case, but here is our street during Sandy. The dog is swimming. You are seeing the shallow part, it is deeper to the left.

View attachment 198901

Having friendly automatic backup power without regard to fuel age or amount is exactly why I installed a natural gas powered genset.

Similar situation - Mrs. Uncle Dave is very qualified, and smart, but cant muscle around something big enough to run a while house and when the power goes out it kills all the local stations so getting more fuel becomes a two hour long trip.

We've had 3 day long outages in both 100+ degree weather, and freezing cold, most outages are 1-3 hour pole crashes or tree/Vs pole that are fixed in half a day/ night. We have to run a well, a septic Xfer pump, and irrigation pumps, and thats not going to happen using a honda 2K.

Ive got solar, but no battery as I have the big genset. Id forgo a big battery on the wall if I had a car with V2G capability.

These were both big bills to swallow, but there is an ROI to both.

If you can get through the night the sun more than powers the house with enough spare to charge, and of course when its dark and cloudy for days on end the big backup gen keeps the whole thing going running intermittently charging the batts and shutting down.

These are big bills to swallow no doubt.