I found this interesting, regarding the cold...........

[Ws6]

So.... In sever cold weather it has to use juice from the battery to heat itself.

And in severe hot desert weather it has to cool itself, once again using its own power. And all of this depletes the range a rather large amount.

In very hot weather, I've seen the car cool the battery (100*f). I still averaged over 3.0mi/kwh, bettering the EPA rating even with a fair bit of freeway driving. Actual range is @ 220mi in these conditions. In balmy weather of 70-80f, actual range is 250+ as the HVAC is used very little.

In 0*f weather, I get an actual range of about 145-150 miles. This is 25% less than EPA rating, roughly. I have not noticed the battery warming itself even down to -7*F, and even when it was parked in an open parking garage, ambient 6*f. The car just keeps the front flaps closed is all. Power is fine and so is heat. No issues. When parked in 6*f ambient in that garage for 14 hours, it was at the same SoC % that I left it at, btw.

 

[thescreensavers]

If any of those people live nearby and don't have a charger at home.. well that makes EVs not convenient.

 

[Ws6]

It would be interesting.

Just can't compete with an EV for traction. Technology is always moving forward.


Audi RS6 is arguably the best AWD system on the planet....for a non-EV.

 

[demarpaint]

Just can't compete with an EV for traction.


Audi RS6 is arguably the best AWD system on the planet....for a non-EV.

Cool. How about that Cyber Truck we had on one of these threads stuck in snow? It caused quite a discussion, EV owners were up in arms defending it.

 

[bbhero]

It charges at 5.3-5.6kw, same as when it's warm. That is such a miniscule charge that the battery doesn't care what temp it is to accept it. The dash estimated charge times are very accurate, and are the same in cold (0F) or hot. What DOES change is the DC fast charging speeds, especially if you neglect to precondition it.

Still though …. It a going to charge a bit slower….0 F it will to an extent charge slower. Colder than that it will be more so.

That does NOT mean it doesn’t work… Or not do what you need it to do…

It does do what you need it to do.

That’s all that matters.

 

[Ws6]

Cool. How about that Cyber Truck we had on one of these threads stuck in snow? It caused quite a discussion, EV owners were up in arms defending it.

I dunno, never drove one. I did watch the video. Looks like horrible tire choice is to blame instead of its AWD system. Tesla fitted it with LRR tires, as I understand it. Screw that. I run performance rubber on my cars and they still exceed EPA ratings. Then again, I don't drive Teslas.

*Also of note, they are Goodyear tires. Yuck.* Goodyear Territory RT tire in 285/65R20, custom spec'ed by Tesla, only available to Tesla. I think you will find this item to be the source of the CT's woes.

 

[Ws6]

Still though …. It a going to charge slower….0 F it will to an extent charge slower.

You aren’t measuring it….

That does NoT mean it doesn’t work… Or not do what you need it to do…

It does do what you need it to do.

That’s all that matters.

The dash said 5.3kw once when I looked at it. Normally it says 5.6kw. Sometimes it says 5.1kw, though. It fluctuates a bit. Maybe it charges 300 watts slower, I dunno, like you said...it works.

 

[bbhero]

Ws6 you do not want to admit any weaknesses with EVs…

They certainly are present and are troublesome at times.

You are not being realistic about that.

Again… Not saying that it does not work..

Especially given your limited use range of it…

It does what you need it to do. Which is good.

However… It’s not a perfect answer to longer trips and the cold or heat WILL limit a EV ability to perform or accept a high power charge.

Just like cars from the 1920s, 1930s and well into the 1949s …

This is still quite early in its use and application.

 

[Ws6]

Ws6 you do not want to admit any weaknesses with EVs…

They certainly are present and are troublesome at times.

You are not being realistic about that.

Again… Not saying that it does not work..

Especially given your limited use range of it…

It does what you need it to do. Which is good.

However… It’s not a perfect answer to longer trips and the cold or heat WILL limit a EV ability to perform or accept a high power charge.

Just like cars from the 1920s, 1930s and well into the 1949s …

This is still quite early in its use and application.

Never had issues charging it, no matter the temps, although it is going to be around 0*f tonight, so I'll make an extra special trip to the fast charger just for you, to see how that goes for me. How's that sound?

Longer trips? Yeah, it can add to trip time and IMO/IME, it's about the same cost as a gas vehicle on a road trip. I still like the 600hp it affords me and the comfortable ride. If I road tripped a lot, though, I think a BMW with the S58 would be what I'd go with. Very thrifty on fuel and still plenty stout, and stuffed in nice vehicles like the X3, etc.

 

[bbhero]

Never had issues charging it, no matter the temps, although it is going to be around 0*f tonight, so I'll make an extra special trip to the fast charger just for you, to see how that goes for me. How's that sound?

Longer trips? Yeah, it can add to trip time and IMO/IME, it's about the same cost as a gas vehicle on a road trip. I still like the 600hp it affords me and the comfortable ride. If I road tripped a lot, though, I think a BMW with the S58 would be what I'd go with. Very thrifty on fuel and still plenty stout, and stuffed in nice vehicles like the X3, etc.

Don’t make a special trip…

It may “ charge” … He’ll I agree it certainly will. But temperature that cold or colder it will slow down a bit… Even if the battery is warm from driving… Temperatures that cold or colder it will charge a bit slower. Maybe not a bunch… But some more time will be needed.


And that’s ok… Nothing wrong with that. May not be a whole lot slower. Nothing bad or wrong with that either.


My gas powered gas has 439 mile “ range” … If I drive 80 miles I have 340 plus miles left. That is what I have left over after that.

You have 30 percent… Your EV at 30 percent will not go very far at all… Especially at 0 F.

There are limitations to these EVs…

That’s reality.

Does not mean they do not work.

They do.

 

[JeffKeryk]

@bbhero I think it is fair to say that most of the negative EV posts are from people who do not own them. I've owned an EV for 5 years and tell everyone these cars are not for everyone. As you point out, they are in their relative infancy. All the owners I know have an ICE vehicle as well. I sure do. Of course, I cannot speak to cold weather, snow, etc. because I never see those conditions.

EVs are different and do not fit every use case, especially if you cannot charge at home. And leaving home in risky conditions with a low state of charge, say 20% or less, just may be asking for trouble. Probably even stupid, but I don't like to use words like that.
If you want an EV to operate just like your ICE vehicle, you will likely be waiting for a looooong time.
Regardless, the hatred for EVs is pretty closed minded. The reality is most EV owners love their cars and Teslas have very high customer satisfaction, which is the #1 indicator of another purchase. Count me in that group.

 

[Astro14]

Never had issues charging it, no matter the temps, although it is going to be around 0*f tonight, so I'll make an extra special trip to the fast charger just for you, to see how that goes for me. How's that sound?

Longer trips? Yeah, it can add to trip time and IMO/IME, it's about the same cost as a gas vehicle on a road trip. I still like the 600hp it affords me and the comfortable ride. If I road tripped a lot, though, I think a BMW with the S58 would be what I'd go with. Very thrifty on fuel and still plenty stout, and stuffed in nice vehicles like the X3, etc.

If I had your mission profile, your parameters, I would have an EV. Makes perfect sense.

But my usage pattern varies widely and is quite different than yours, so, I don’t have an EV.

 

[JeffKeryk]

If I had your mission profile, your parameters, I would have an EV. Makes perfect sense.

But my usage pattern varies widely and is quite different than yours, so, I don’t have an EV.

Astro you're just being logical again...

 

[bbhero]

@bbhero I think it is fair to say that most of the negative EV posts are from people who do not own them. I've owned an EV for 5 years and tell everyone these cars are not for everyone. As you point out, they are in their relative infancy. All the owners I know have an ICE vehicle as well. I sure do. Of course, I cannot speak to cold weather, snow, etc. because I never see those conditions.

EVs are different and do not fit every use case, especially if you cannot charge at home. And leaving home in risky conditions with a low state of charge, say 20% or less, just may be asking for trouble. Probably even stupid, but I don't like to use words like that.
If you want an EV to operate just like your ICE vehicle, you will likely be waiting for a looooong time.
Regardless, the hatred for EVs is pretty closed minded. The reality is most EV owners love their cars and Teslas have very high customer satisfaction, which is the #1 indicator of another purchase. Count me in that group.

This is in my opinion a very, very good post.

Outstanding in fact.

I think EVs are cool and certainly HAVE a use and place for many people.

Got a funny EV story to tell ya here in a bit.. Making dinner here was why the delay..

It’s not a negative one. Quite the opposite… Amazing actually.

 

[y_p_w]

@bbhero I think it is fair to say that most of the negative EV posts are from people who do not own them. I've owned an EV for 5 years and tell everyone these cars are not for everyone. As you point out, they are in their relative infancy. All the owners I know have an ICE vehicle as well. I sure do. Of course, I cannot speak to cold weather, snow, etc. because I never see those conditions.

EVs are different and do not fit every use case, especially if you cannot charge at home. And leaving home in risky conditions with a low state of charge, say 20% or less, just may be asking for trouble. Probably even stupid, but I don't like to use words like that.
If you want an EV to operate just like your ICE vehicle, you will likely be waiting for a looooong time.
Regardless, the hatred for EVs is pretty closed minded. The reality is most EV owners love their cars and Teslas have very high customer satisfaction, which is the #1 indicator of another purchase. Count me in that group.

I see a lot of the kind of stuff I see that I used to see on Usenet groups. VW fans trying to make it sound like Hondas had issues or especially one guy who was practially trolling a Saturn group trying to tell everyone that they made a bad decision or shouldn't consider it if in the market for a car.

The signal to noise ratio on this particular subform is considerably lowered by a lot of those who obviously aren't EV drivers or considering them - just looking for anything that puts EVs in a negative light. I've enjoyed the discussions where there's real-world advice or sharing of direct experiences, whether it's good, bad, or indifferent. This is the kind of discussion that bring downs a lot of forums with excessive arguments.

 

[Astro14]

I think I’ve said this before, but I stood in a Tesla showroom about 8 years ago and even arranged a test drive. I wanted to know more. We talked about the build-out of the supercharger network in the future (and they have exceeded the projections from back then).

There are many attractive features of an EV. Simplicity of maintenance and service. Cost per mile. A couple of neighbors have Teslas. I get how attractive they are (that is, as long as you’re not stuck in the back seat of a model S…). I think I am technically minded enough to manage charge/charge rate/trip planning which is a new dimension not required for an ICE.

But in analyzing how I drive, and where, I’m just not there yet. It won’t work for one of the critical mission sets - a run up the Eastern Shore to EWR when a flight cancels. I am often pressed for time, it’s about 350 miles. There is traffic, usually weather, and a dearth of charging options on that route for the first 200 miles.

A Tesla would be a replacement for the S class in my stable. The Lightning (or Rivian) is not a replacement for the Tundra, not yet.

And here’s the emotional bit - I am not ready to give up that glorious V-12. I simply can’t. That car is a bucket list kind of thing. Always wanted a V-12. Now that I have it, I love it - the smoothness, the power, the torque - all of it coupled with a bit of that je ne sais quoi of 12 cylinders in perfect balance with a wonderful sound of combustion.

So, when charging is better, or the EV is mandated, or I no longer have to make that run, perhaps all three…then, maybe I relegate the S600 to collector status, and jump on the EV train.

 

[y_p_w]

And here’s the emotional bit - I am not ready to give up that glorious V-12. I simply can’t. That car is a bucket list kind of thing. Always wanted a V-12. Now that I have it, I love it - the smoothness, the power, the torque - all of it coupled with a bit of that je ne sais quoi of 12 cylinders in perfect balance with a wonderful sound of combustion.

Flat-12. From behind you.

 

[Astro14]

Flat-12. From behind you.

As sweet as that is… I’m kinda’ partial to 12 up front.


Apologies to those discussing EVs…I am way off topic, here…

 

[JeffKeryk]

And here’s the emotional bit - I am not ready to give up that glorious V-12. I simply can’t. That car is a bucket list kind of thing. Always wanted a V-12. Now that I have it, I love it - the smoothness, the power, the torque - all of it coupled with a bit of that je ne sais quoi of 12 cylinders in perfect balance with a wonderful sound of combustion.

Once someone told me, "Never buy a sensible car." Some of the best advice I ever got, as long as it is in the budget. And sometimes ya gotta stretch that budget; I am a fiscal conservative but ya only live once!

 

[y_p_w]

Once someone told me, "Never buy a sensible car." Some of the best advice I ever got, as long as it is in the budget. And sometimes ya gotta stretch that budget; I am a fiscal conservative but ya only live once!

Even the purchase of a Model 3 by my parents wasn't for a sensible car, even though they got the tax credits and $2400 off. They just wanted a cool car. Sensible would have been fixing the car they already had, which wasn't not cool but still plenty reliable.