I found this interesting, regarding the cold...........

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Torrid said:
Right now yes. I had an electrician come out and give us an estimate for a 240V outlet. I'll be getting that done as soon as I can get it scheduled. 120V has been fine so far though and it's been used even when really cold. It was somewhere under 10 degrees in the garage when I checked I'm sure it was less than that last night while charging.
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I thought a lot of this discussion is about cars parked on a driveway or maybe a covered carport? I’m thinking a Mobile Connector isn't designed to be out in the elements like a Wall Connector, which I’ve seen mounted outdoors on a post. But a Mobile Connector is clearly not designed to be out in the rain or snow where I’m sure it will fry in no time. I supposed it could be shielded.

However, a Wall Connector or similar Level 2 setup is supposed to be professionally installed, although they’re designed to be outdoors.

Going on a road trip obviously complicates things. We get winter weather in the Sierra Nevada, and a road trip to Lake Tahoe or Yosemite might be interesting. I think there might be some places where an EV can be left plugged in, but there’s a lack of Level 3 charging. Around Lake Tahoe, the only Supercharger is at one casino in Stateline that will charge for parking, or maybe further out in Truckee or Reno. That kind of sucks, even for summer recreation. In winter it would be nice just to deal with the decreased range. Even then I’m sure there are some who get to the ski resorts in EVs. But one 16kW charger?

https://www.tesla.com/findus/location/charger/dc4915
 
billt460 said:
Then there is this. I'm going way out on a limb here and say it's not because of their stellar cold weather, or distance performance.

https://stateline.org/2023/03/06/th... recent federal data,and market share of EVs.

The most recent federal data on EV adoption rates shows that North Dakota (roughly 400 vehicles), Wyoming (500) and South Dakota (700) have the fewest EV registrations in the nation. The Dakotas, Iowa and Nebraska are among the states with the lowest per capita ownership and market share of EVs.
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I think personal preference is a lot more important than "its cold". We can give it a million reasons, but it's still speculating. Kind of funny that they mention ethanol production because as higher concentrations of ethanol make it into fuel the harder it is to light. I made that mistake once with E85. I couldn't believe the battery didn't drain before I got it going. I don't run ethanol now, but that's not why. Most of our premium here is ethanol free which I found interesting. I don't think that's common. I'm really surprised the market isn't at 30% ethanol blends yet.

The story says its political for ethanol. Shocker. Kind of funny they point it out that way. There's very little done in the auto industry that isn't political. Most of it gets discussed in anger too. Seems they benefit from us not being happy.
 
y_p_w said:
I thought a lot of this discussion is about cars parked on a driveway or maybe a covered carport? I’m thinking a Mobile Connector isn't designed to be out in the elements like a Wall Connector, which I’ve seen mounted outdoors on a post. But a Mobile Connector is clearly not designed to be out in the rain or snow where I’m sure it will fry in no time. I supposed it could be shielded.

However, a Wall Connector or similar Level 2 setup is supposed to be professionally installed, although they’re designed to be outdoors.

Going on a road trip obviously complicates things. We get winter weather in the Sierra Nevada, and a road trip to Lake Tahoe or Yosemite might be interesting. I think there might be some places where an EV can be left plugged in, but there’s a lack of Level 3 charging. Around Lake Tahoe, the only Supercharger is at one casino in Stateline that will charge for parking, or maybe further out in Truckee or Reno. That kind of sucks, even for summer recreation. In winter it would be nice just to deal with the decreased range. Even then I’m sure there are some who get to the ski resorts in EVs. But one 16kW charger?

https://www.tesla.com/findus/location/charger/dc4915
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Yeah it's not really meant to be left outside, but it is sealed. I think the biggest issue is how the adapter for 120V and 240V is swapped out. I don't know that would stay sealed long term. I would worry about getting the actual charger, but it's 48amp, so I'd need 60amp service to my garage and I only have 30amp right now. I'll end up using 240V and limiting it to 24amp until I'd feel the need to get more power, but considering 120V has been adequate that seems really unnecessary.
 
Then, we have yet to mention all the new infrastructure and materials and energy use for the manufacture of a million charging stations.

Energy used to manufacture the copper wiring? Mining the raw materials? Etc? Then what about the costs???

https://futureenergy.com/ev-charging/how-much-do-ev-charging-stations-cost/

I would be much more on board if it really would make a positive impact, but it don't. Its a bad deal once every single aspect of it is considered.
 
gfh77665 said:
Then, we have yet to mention all the new infrastructure and materials and energy use for the manufacture of a million charging stations.

Energy used to manufacture the copper wiring? Mining the raw materials? Etc? Then what about the costs???

https://futureenergy.com/ev-charging/how-much-do-ev-charging-stations-cost/

I would be much more on board if it really would make a positive impact, but it don't. Its a bad deal once every single aspect of it is considered.
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Don't worry, you're probably the 15th person to do this. The conversation has been had. I can only say the same thing so many times.
 
gfh77665 said:
Then, we have yet to mention all the new infrastructure and materials and energy use for the manufacture of a million charging stations.

Energy used to manufacture the copper wiring? Mining the raw materials? Etc? Then what about the costs???

https://futureenergy.com/ev-charging/how-much-do-ev-charging-stations-cost/

I would be much more on board if it really would make a positive impact, but it don't. Its a bad deal once every single aspect of it is considered.
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Everything has a cost, including ICE vehicles and gas stations.
 
y_p_w said:
Everything has a cost, including ICE vehicles and gas stations.
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Of course, I never claimed otherwise. 145,000 gas stations already exists. Yes a few new ones will be built time to time but no where near the scale of building up a coast to coast EV charging network.

How many service stations are there in the United States?​

The NACS, the association for convenience and fuel retailing, reports that there are more than 145,000 fueling stations across the United States. 127,588 of these stations are convenience stores selling fuel. The rest are gas-only stations, grocery stores selling fuel, marinas, etc.

https://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas/consumer-information/consumer-resources/service-station-faqs
 
Torrid said:
Yeah it's not really meant to be left outside, but it is sealed. I think the biggest issue is how the adapter for 120V and 240V is swapped out. I don't know that would stay sealed long term. I would worry about getting the actual charger, but it's 48amp, so I'd need 60amp service to my garage and I only have 30amp right now. I'll end up using 240V and limiting it to 24amp until I'd feel the need to get more power, but considering 120V has been adequate that seems really unnecessary.
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There are the two vent holes on the sides that might collect water. It’s also meant to hang vertically, and the plug hole will obviously allow water or snow in the contacts since it’s plastic on plastic. It’s obviously meant for indoor or at least covered areas. I think the cable is designed for all weather conditions, so it might be possible to do something like plug it in indoors but go outside through a hole.
 
Remember the original content of the thread. These EV's wouldn't move, and they wouldn't charge. You guys are back to arguing about charging cost, and all this other nonsense.

These people invested heavily in EV's. And when it got cold they were useless to them. They basically paid tens of thousands of dollars to become pedestrians on the coldest of days.
 
billt460 said:
Remember the original content of the thread. These EV's wouldn't move, and they wouldn't charge. You guys are back to arguing about charging cost, and all this other nonsense.

These people invested heavily in EV's. And when it got cold they were useless to them. They basically paid tens of thousands of dollars to become pedestrians on the coldest of days.
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We were discussing why we haven't had the problem and what we did to mitigate it and then someone came in talking about gas stations.
 
gfh77665 said:
Of course, I never claimed otherwise. 145,000 gas stations already exists. Yes a few new ones will be built time to time but no where near the scale of building up a coast to coast EV charging network.

How many service stations are there in the United States?​

The NACS, the association for convenience and fuel retailing, reports that there are more than 145,000 fueling stations across the United States. 127,588 of these stations are convenience stores selling fuel. The rest are gas-only stations, grocery stores selling fuel, marinas, etc.

https://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas/consumer-information/consumer-resources/service-station-faqs
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There’s always a cost. Even gas stations have to have their infrastructure replaced periodically. Every emerging technology has startup costs. Gas stations were part of that at one time.

30 years from now I’m thinking all this discussion about how much cost and materials for EVs is going to be seen as old news after the infrastructure supports the majority of vehicles on the road.
 
Torrid said:
I definitely see that will happen over time. There's going to be good money in fixing a car just as it is for any repair shop. There's already a few popping up.

I just don't see the full ban happening. I know I haven't bought my last ICE vehicle. I'll keep buying EVs too.
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It has too I think. Though the number of people that use iPhones despite Apple's hardcore fight against the right to repair has me worried. Hopefully the price of a $30,000-6000 vehicle vs a $1000 phone will make that different.
 
30 years from now there will be masses of ICE vehicles still on the road. What's going to have to happen is a whole additional coast to coast charging network will have to be built to accommodate EV's. Duplicating the existing (but different) fueling system that already in place is going to be astronomically expensive. Hope it does not strain the grids too much.
 
y_p_w said:
There’s always a cost. Even gas stations have to have their infrastructure replaced periodically. Every emerging technology has startup costs. Gas stations were part of that at one time.

30 years from now I’m thinking all this discussion about how much cost and materials for EVs is going to be seen as old news after the infrastructure supports the majority of vehicles on the road.
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I am no EV adopter but in my area I think it would have to be a Tesla. Those chargers seem to be pretty readily available in our area and nowhere near as unreliable as "Electrify America" from what I've seen. Just noticed a new Tesla charger at a fast food plaza in our town the other day.....one Tesla parked there out of maybe 10 chargers. At least if I owner one now it wouldn't be too hard to charge in our town.. though I'd be charging at home because I wouldn't buy an ev and not a home charger.
 
billt460 said:
Remember the original content of the thread. These EV's wouldn't move, and they wouldn't charge. You guys are back to arguing about charging cost, and all this other nonsense.

These people invested heavily in EV's. And when it got cold they were useless to them. They basically paid tens of thousands of dollars to become pedestrians on the coldest of days.
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A charged vehicle will move when it’s cold. That’s not a problem per se other than battery discharge inefficiency. They won’t charge until properly warmed up though, and it takes energy from an external source and/or battery to provide that heat. Obviously it takes a little more thinking in cold weather, where it would make more sense to keep an EV charged, compared to warmer temps where a driver might live with a battery closer to being fully discharged.

But yeah they’ll run when it’s cold.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-alaska-exclusive/
 
gfh77665 said:
30 years from now there will be masses of ICE vehicles still on the road. What's going to have to happen is a whole additional coast to coast charging network will have to be built to accommodate EV's. Duplicating the existing (but different) fueling system that already in place is going to be astronomically expensive. Hope it does not strain the grids too much.
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By then there will be lots of charging availability in parking garages and lots. What’s the problem really? EVs don’t need to be charged at dedicated facilities - just parking spaces with an electrical connection available. My parents almost exclusively charge theirs at home in their garage, where the cost was about $500 for a handyman to install a 50x2 amp breaker and a 50 amp outlet plus buying a Tesla Mobile Connector.
 
billt460 said:
Remember the original content of the thread. These EV's wouldn't move, and they wouldn't charge. You guys are back to arguing about charging cost, and all this other nonsense.

These people invested heavily in EV's. And when it got cold they were useless to them. They basically paid tens of thousands of dollars to become pedestrians on the coldest of days.
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Actually, the article was about lines at Superchargers. Sometimes a key fallacy with quoting articles is mis-quoting them. Nothing said the EVs wouldn't charge or couldn't move. They had to move to get in line for the charger, right?

"CHICAGO — The winter freeze is impacting residents across Chicagoland, but some EV drivers are facing an additional handful of problems as they deal with long lines at charging stations and reduced battery life.

A station with 20 Tesla Superchargers, off West Touhy Avenue in Skokie, was full almost all day on Monday, with drivers waiting nearby for spots to open up."
 
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