I found this interesting, regarding the cold...........

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This why it’s unfortunate more PHEV options don’t exist

Volt, Prime, I3 REX being the most usuable in cold weather

EVs are still too young with too little charging infrastructure to be a reliable long distance ride in winter conditions.

Just like my 1981 Comutacar good for around town year round and that’s about it.
 
Thermo1223 said:
I believe the real benefit is lower center of gravity and better weight distribution vs IC cars.
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In true 4wd systems usually the front axle is slightly over sped to help low speed turning performance on slick surfaces, which actually could slightly diminish traction driving up a straight incline as the axles are fighting each other slightly. I don't know if the part time 4wd systems do this or not, and a true AWD system with a centre diff doesn't need to overspeed the front axle either, unless it frequently locks the centre diff.

An EV with no mechanical connection between axles could perfectly match the front axle overspeeding to match the turn radius. Do they, I don't know?

A 2 motor EV with open diffs in theory offers no advantage, to open front and rear diff AWD in a gas car, as it still relies on braking individual wheels to limit wheel spin, which I think is better than open diffs, but not nearly as good as a locked diff. If an EV has 4 motors or locking diffs, it could just turn all the wheels at the same speed regardless of grip which is a pretty good way to climb a snowy hill. My atv has a locked rear diff, but in 4wd with the front locked ,it climbs much much better or plows snow better, than with the front diff open.
 
IndyIan said:
In true 4wd systems usually the front axle is slightly over sped to help low speed turning performance on slick surfaces, which actually could slightly diminish traction driving up a straight incline as the axles are fighting each other slightly. I don't know if the part time 4wd systems do this or not, and a true AWD system with a centre diff doesn't need to overspeed the front axle either, unless it frequently locks the centre diff.

An EV with no mechanical connection between axles could perfectly match the front axle overspeeding to match the turn radius. Do they, I don't know?

A 2 motor EV with open diffs in theory offers no advantage, to open front and rear diff AWD in a gas car, as it still relies on braking individual wheels to limit wheel spin, which I think is better than open diffs, but not nearly as good as a locked diff. If an EV has 4 motors or locking diffs, it could just turn all the wheels at the same speed regardless of grip which is a pretty good way to climb a snowy hill. My atv has a locked rear diff, but in 4wd with the front locked ,it climbs much much better or plows snow better, than with the front diff open.
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I thought that maybe traction control might improve stability.
 
Astro14 said:
Well, there are various entities (US states and foreign nations) that have stated ICE will no longer be allowed for sale past a certain date, which does, in fact, make EV the only option in a few years.

Sweden, in particular, has banned (yes, banned, law was passed) ICE vehicles from its capital, Stockholm, as of 2025, so, I believe them when they say that there will be no more ICE for sale in Sweden after a certain date. Volvo has committed to making only electric cars by 2030.

California has said that they will require all electric by 2035. That means that for those 40 million folks EV will be their only option.

When people say they are going to do something, it’s best to believe them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/12/...ytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

https://www.media.volvocars.com/us/...77409/volvo-cars-to-be-fully-electric-by-2030

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/news/california-moves-accelerate-100-new-zero-emission-vehicle-sales-2035
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I just don't believe any of it will stick here beyond a few states. I can barely take the whining as is. My neighbor will be furious that his battery truck doesn't have loud pipes.
 
Passport1 said:
@Torrid says it can be done afterwards. 'They can precondition while plugged in'. That doesn't seem like it would extend anything or be much fun.
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It would have several advantages as long as input power is sufficient. The electronics don't quite have the limitations that the batteries have in cold temperatures. Even at moderate temperatures, it's more efficient than powering from the battery. At cold temps it's considerably more efficient.

But yeah - use external power to get the battery up to operating temperature when the battery is otherwise less efficient. A lot of EV drivers leave them plugged in until ready to drive. Someone with a workplace (or a hotel) that provides complimentary charging could take advantage of that before leaving. It would be similar to using a block heater to get a head start on heat.
 
y_p_w said:
It would have several advantages as long as input power is sufficient. The electronics don't quite have the limitations that the batteries have in cold temperatures. Even at moderate temperatures, it's more efficient than powering from the battery. At cold temps it's considerably more efficient.

But yeah - use external power to get the battery up to operating temperature when the battery is otherwise less efficient. A lot of EV drivers leave them plugged in until ready to drive. Someone with a workplace (or a hotel) that provides complimentary charging could take advantage of that before leaving. It would be similar to using a block heater to get a head start on heat.
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I just prefer to use the wall when I can so that not only is the car up to temp I'm not taking power from the battery initially. I've found that if it's plugged in and not charging it'll still use the cable to supply the power to heat the car. All I really care is that the interior of the car is warm before I leave. At least the process is started to warming the battery at that point.
 
Torrid said:
I just prefer to use the wall when I can so that not only is the car up to temp I'm not taking power from the battery initially. I've found that if it's plugged in and not charging it'll still use the cable to supply the power to heat the car. All I really care is that the interior of the car is warm before I leave. At least the process is started to warming the battery at that point.
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You're only able to access 120V through a Mobile Connector? I'm not sure about how practical it is outdoors as I don't think it's designed to be out in the elements. I'm sure it can provide some power if it's really cold, but I'm thinking Level 2 is probably going to be needed for really cold conditions.
 
y_p_w said:
You're only able to access 120V through a Mobile Connector? I'm not sure about how practical it is outdoors as I don't think it's designed to be out in the elements. I'm sure it can provide some power if it's really cold, but I'm thinking Level 2 is probably going to be needed for really cold conditions.
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Right now yes. I had an electrician come out and give us an estimate for a 240V outlet. I'll be getting that done as soon as I can get it scheduled. 120V has been fine so far though and it's been used even when really cold. It was somewhere under 10 degrees in the garage when I checked I'm sure it was less than that last night while charging.
 
UncleDave said:
I'm with you most of the way.

The environmental aspect (the part I care least about personally) doesn't seem cut and dried at all with the EV worse up front but having a definite break even and besting ICE at some point with miles to get there varying by model and power source.
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But it goes beyond that. There is large battery disposal once its all done. EV's are not enviro friendly.

Kind of reminds me of wind energy. Cradle to grave has to be taken into account.

https://cen.acs.org/environment/recycling/companies-recycle-wind-turbine-blades/100/i27
 
JeffKeryk said:
This article was about the wait lines getting to a charger; my car suggested I pick a different location once due to full Superchargers. The algorithm forecasts availability.
Charging issues are the #1 reason people go back to ICE from EV.
These cars are not for everyone. Just because our Model 3 works for me doesn't mean it will be a good choice for everyone.

The linked article added O'Hare's ATS transport system was down for some time as well.
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In my honest opinion Ev can be the perfect vehicle for some operations. Plus Ev are in their infancy. They will get better and I like options.
 
gfh77665 said:
But it goes beyond that. There is large battery disposal once its all done. EV's are not enviro friendly.

Kind of reminds me of wind energy. Cradle to grave has to be taken into account.

https://cen.acs.org/environment/recycling/companies-recycle-wind-turbine-blades/100/i27
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The batteries aren't exactly disposed. This isn't a set of AAs that you toss in the trash. Even if we threw them in the trash it's still cleaner over the life of the battery than an ICE vehicle is. Funny when the anti EV crowd gets all environmentalist to try and prove a point. I'm not exactly an environmentalist either, but my goal is just not to take up more space than I need. It's why I have small cars for one, not to mention they're usually a lot more fun to drive. I've had many V8s, I just prefer them in sports cars.

It's not exactly 1 to 1 either. Large vehicles in general are more wasteful no matter the power source. It takes more energy to move them whether it's fuel or electricity. The Hummer EV is flat out ridiculous and the Silverado EV will be almost as bad. At least is supposed to be a bit lighter than the Hummer.
 
Ws6 said:
Ive had zero issues with my ev6 GT. -2f at present.

Advantages to EV:

-Instant heat.
-Superior traction on snow and ice.
-Superior if you get gridlocked in traffic or truly do get stuck. It will keep you warm for days without suffocating you with carbon monoxide.
-Can power the essentials in your home for days on end if the power goes out.

Disadvantages:

-If you don't charge at home, some charging networks are less than stellar reliable.
-You tend to have to witness stupidity and ignorance on a mass scale online from people who know nothing about an EV, much less own one.

After owning multiple EVs and putting a total of 40k miles on them, as well as owning multiple ICE cars over the years, I prefer EV strongly for sub zero temps and snow.
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How long I keep vehicles is the real problem for Ev's at this point. The advantages to Ev's happen after 10-15 years IMO. They should both be an option, because Ev's are worth it for a lot of people's use case. The problem is them trying to force it on everyone, and of they do that they can make it so that we have to put up with the non repairable, throwaway products that we currently have. Hopefully before they become widely adopted they will be repairable for a reasonable price and be able to keep them for 20+ years like we can with ice cars.
 
350Rocket said:
How long I keep vehicles is the real problem for Ev's at this point. The advantages to Ev's happen after 10-15 years IMO. They should both be an option, because Ev's are worth it for a lot of people's use case. The problem is them trying to force it on everyone, and of they do that they can make it so that we have to put up with the non repairable, throwaway products that we currently have. Hopefully before they become widely adopted they will be repairable for a reasonable price and be able to keep them for 20+ years like we can with ice cars.
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I definitely see that will happen over time. There's going to be good money in fixing a car just as it is for any repair shop. There's already a few popping up.

I just don't see the full ban happening. I know I haven't bought my last ICE vehicle. I'll keep buying EVs too.
 
Then there is this. I'm going way out on a limb here and say it's not because of their stellar cold weather, or distance performance.

https://stateline.org/2023/03/06/th... recent federal data,and market share of EVs.

The most recent federal data on EV adoption rates shows that North Dakota (roughly 400 vehicles), Wyoming (500) and South Dakota (700) have the fewest EV registrations in the nation. The Dakotas, Iowa and Nebraska are among the states with the lowest per capita ownership and market share of EVs.
 
billt460 said:
It's all about heat. Which both ICE and EV's require to run properly. (Or charge the battery properly in an EV). The difference is heat is a by product of ICE. EV's have to use battery power to make it.

It doesn't take much to figure out which works better in the cold. You don't have to preheat your gas tank before filling it.
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In essence an ICE's lack of efficiency is its positive when it gets cold. I still would rather short trip an EV in the cold than an ICE vehicle though. Cabin heat is almost instantaneous and I'm not worried about the oil not getting warm enough before shutting it down again. All depends on what you need and where you're going. Neither will be efficient for that short trip, so I might as well be comfortable.
 
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