I found this interesting, regarding the cold...........

[dnewton3]

Advantages to EV:

-Instant heat.

I would agree with that. But then nobody froze to death in the few minutes it takes to warm up an ICE. So it's not really as big a deal as you make it out to be.

-Superior traction on snow and ice.

Only true for some comparisons. Certainly not true for all. There are plenty of AWD vehicles that would do as well. Your statement of superiority implies one of absolute condition; clearly not the case. Also, not all EVs are AWD; some are FWD only, further negating your point. I did read your subsequent retort about EVs having more control over the throttle, etc. I find that point also dubious. Just because you haven't had good luck controlling an ICE system, doesn't mean that applies to all of us.

-Superior if you get gridlocked in traffic or truly do get stuck. It will keep you warm for days without suffocating you with carbon monoxide.

In uber cold temps, I doubt an EV would last "for days". Further, no one is going to suffocate from CO as long as they keep the ICE tailpipe clear and the windows up. You're grossly exaggerating here.

-Can power the essentials in your home for days on end if the power goes out.

What do you call "essentials"? Please show me the math that an EV can power a household for "days on end". I simply won't believe this claim until I see the real data. And just how is this method of powering the home to be successful when the EV isn't parked in a house garage, but rather a large apartment building parking lot? Are you gonna lay down several hundred feet of 240v cord from your parking spot to the 3rd floor condo in the back of the building? Your statement is wildly optimistic and I doubt your claim has any true merit here.
1) you need to prove the math for me to believe this claim; you grossly overestimate the power density of the battery vs the consumption of the home essentials
2) you need to understand that not all people have an EV in a single-family dwelling garage; especially true in an urban area, making even getting the EV power to the "home" nearly improbable.
Both combine to make this claim of yours nearly impossible as implied, as if the EV could power any home for the essentials for "days on end".

Disadvantages:

-If you don't charge at home, some charging networks are less than stellar reliable.

Yes; true. And not only are many of them unreliable, but those which remain are often grossly unavailable in times of peak need, such as these cold snaps. Always a good combination for marketing material; unreliable AND unavailable.

-You tend to have to witness stupidity and ignorance on a mass scale online from people who know nothing about an EV, much less own one.

Stupidity knows no bounds. EV or ICE, some folks just aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, no matter what the topic is.
And that stupidity also knows no bounds when it comes to folks who over-hype the world of EV capability ... Just sayin' ....

After owning multiple EVs and putting a total of 40k miles on them, as well as owning multiple ICE cars over the years, I prefer EV strongly for sub zero temps and snow.

Fine; if the EV lifestyle fits your needs and wants, then by all means continue the course. Nothing wrong with that.



I think EVs are a great tool for some applications; they certainly can make for a good decision in some circumstances. However, I do not for one second believe they are the right tool for all applications. Like all other tools, EVs have proper and improper uses.
You appear to defend EVS as if they are unassailable; clearly not the case. And I believe your claims to be exaggerated for effect; you're welcome to prove otherwise, but bring PROOF and not your suppositions.

.

 

[oil pan 4]

Is that a Dodge issue? I've owned dozens of vehicles in my life and lived in areas where 0F and below are normal occurrences during the winter months. Never have I had a vehicle that's operating properly have issues with heat at 0F. Just takes a bit longer to get to operating temp. But I've also never owned a Dodge.

Idk I was running a bit cool the guy who had it before me could have done something stupid like put in a 180F thermostat or drilled a hole in the stock thermostat or both.

 

[Rand]

Only true for some comparisons. Certainly not true for all. There are plenty of AWD vehicles that would do as well. Your statement of superiority implies one of absolute condition; clearly not the case. Also, not all EVs are AWD; some are FWD only, further negating your point. I did read your subsequent retort about EVs having more control over the throttle, etc. I find that point also dubious. Just because you haven't had good luck controlling an ICE system, doesn't mean that applies to all of us.

He can bring his EV on all seasons and I'll bring my Subaru on winter tires...

 

[LenZee]

I've seen a few gas cars not start in my neighborhood, My wife's car almost didn't start and isn't happy when it did.
Below zero is hard on all cars.

 

[IndyIan]

I would agree with that. But then nobody froze to death in the few minutes it takes to warm up an ICE. So it's not really as big a deal as you make it out to be.


Only true for some comparisons. Certainly not true for all. There are plenty of AWD vehicles that would do as well. Your statement of superiority implies one of absolute condition; clearly not the case. Also, not all EVs are AWD; some are FWD only, further negating your point. I did read your subsequent retort about EVs having more control over the throttle, etc. I find that point also dubious. Just because you haven't had good luck controlling an ICE system, doesn't mean that applies to all of us.


In uber cold temps, I doubt an EV would last "for days". Further, no one is going to suffocate from CO as long as they keep the ICE tailpipe clear and the windows up. You're grossly exaggerating here.


What do you call "essentials"? Please show me the math that an EV can power a household for "days on end". I simply won't believe this claim until I see the real data. And just how is this method of powering the home to be successful when the EV isn't parked in a house garage, but rather a large apartment building parking lot? Are you gonna lay down several hundred feet of 240v cord from your parking spot to the 3rd floor condo in the back of the building? Your statement is wildly optimistic and I doubt your claim has any true merit here.
1) you need to prove the math for me to believe this claim; you grossly overestimate the power density of the battery vs the consumption of the home essentials
2) you need to understand that not all people have an EV in a single-family dwelling garage; especially true in an urban area, making even getting the EV power to the "home" nearly improbable.
Both combine to make this claim of yours nearly impossible as implied, as if the EV could power any home for the essentials for "days on end".



Yes; true. And not only are many of them unreliable, but those which remain are often grossly unavailable in times of peak need, such as these cold snaps. Always a good combination for marketing material; unreliable AND unavailable.


Stupidity knows no bounds. EV or ICE, some folks just aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, no matter what the topic is.
And that stupidity also knows no bounds when it comes to folks who over-hype the world of EV capability ... Just sayin' ....


Fine; if the EV lifestyle fits your needs and wants, then by all means continue the course. Nothing wrong with that.



I think EVs are a great tool for some applications; they certainly can make for a good decision in some circumstances. However, I do not for one second believe they are the right tool for all applications. Like all other tools, EVs have proper and improper uses.
You appear to defend EVS as if they are unassailable; clearly not the case. And I believe your claims to be exaggerated for effect; you're welcome to prove otherwise, but bring PROOF and not your suppositions.

.

In general though, most people who are buying $40-50k+ EV in a cold climate, probably own their own home with convenient parking to charge them, and can understand and plan for the implications of cold weather on an EV. In general these are not willfully ignorant folks, but for sure there are some and they make the news!
It seems every other day we read of a relative who kills their KISS gas vehicle from ignorance, so no energy source is immune, just the gas cars dying doesn't make the news.

 

[Cujet]

This guy is doing some epic cold weather testing:
It sure seems to me that a non LiFePO4 Tesla is an epic cold weather car if one can charge at home and/or has a garage. It should go without saying that with any car, a garage makes extreme cold weather much less troublesome.

 

[alarmguy]

In general though, most people who are buying $40-50k+ EV in a cold climate, probably own their own home with convenient parking to charge them, and can understand and plan for the implications of cold weather on an EV. In general these are not willfully ignorant folks, but for sure there are some and they make the news!
It seems every other day we read of a relative who kills their KISS gas vehicle from ignorance, so no energy source is immune, just the gas cars dying doesn't make the news.

Na... in this case we are talking about 100's of thousands of EV's being affected by the cold. Up to 60% less range, unable to charge, being towed away because the cars died while waiting hours for a chance to attempt to charge. It's not correct to bring Gas vehicles into this equation because if those cars were dying outside gas stations from the cold or using up the gas at a rate 60% higher they too would be in the news. But people with gas cars are going about their day, traveling hundreds of miles without having to worry about charging up. Let's not talk about the ones that won't start. Those are not new vehicles nor are they maintained if they had not maintained their batteries by keeping them new and up to date.

Wrong to say people with homes all park their EVs in the garage but with that said, yes, without question then we can accept that EV's require special treatment in order to function and even with that treatment its NOT a good idea to take it on long trips in very cold weather. You very well can get stuck. The rest of this week will be interesting as the cold isnt even on the east coast yet. I mean it will be down into the teens possilbly this week in the Carolinas so colder up north. But people here dont really buy EVs I do have a neighbor with a Tesla (that she hates) and will see how she makes out this weekend but then again, it's a local car.

 

[gman2304]

Meanwhile : All is well in W. Palm Beach…..Minneapolis…not so much…

 

[Allaneddie]

Cue up the grumpy old man: "I told you so"

 

[UncleDave]

Na... in this case we are talking about 100's of thousands of EV's being affected by the cold. Up to 60% less range, unable to charge, being towed away because the cars died while waiting hours for a chance to attempt to charge.

This insinuates 100's of thousand of EV's had a problem charging at three stations in Chicago over a 3 day span.

Do you have any evidence the scope was anywhere near this large?

 

[Ws6]

Interesting point. I've never driven one for any decent length of time, much less in terrible conditions.

Weight may also be a factor in that. I'd imagine (I have not checked) that an EV is heavier than a comparable combustion vehicle.

My EV6 GT is 4800#. A BMW X4M is 4600#. Pretty similar, really.

 

[wemay]

EVs aren't for everyone and (at present) work better in some environments than others. I wouldn't own an Accord if my commute consisted of some soft-roading either. Could it do it? Sure but there would be risks.

Before purchasing any vehicle, elementary research is important. Not just reading marketing material.

 

[Ws6]

I would agree with that. But then nobody froze to death in the few minutes it takes to warm up an ICE. So it's not really as big a deal as you make it out to be.


Only true for some comparisons. Certainly not true for all. There are plenty of AWD vehicles that would do as well. Your statement of superiority implies one of absolute condition; clearly not the case. Also, not all EVs are AWD; some are FWD only, further negating your point. I did read your subsequent retort about EVs having more control over the throttle, etc. I find that point also dubious. Just because you haven't had good luck controlling an ICE system, doesn't mean that applies to all of us.


In uber cold temps, I doubt an EV would last "for days". Further, no one is going to suffocate from CO as long as they keep the ICE tailpipe clear and the windows up. You're grossly exaggerating here.


What do you call "essentials"? Please show me the math that an EV can power a household for "days on end". I simply won't believe this claim until I see the real data. And just how is this method of powering the home to be successful when the EV isn't parked in a house garage, but rather a large apartment building parking lot? Are you gonna lay down several hundred feet of 240v cord from your parking spot to the 3rd floor condo in the back of the building? Your statement is wildly optimistic and I doubt your claim has any true merit here.
1) you need to prove the math for me to believe this claim; you grossly overestimate the power density of the battery vs the consumption of the home essentials
2) you need to understand that not all people have an EV in a single-family dwelling garage; especially true in an urban area, making even getting the EV power to the "home" nearly improbable.
Both combine to make this claim of yours nearly impossible as implied, as if the EV could power any home for the essentials for "days on end".



Yes; true. And not only are many of them unreliable, but those which remain are often grossly unavailable in times of peak need, such as these cold snaps. Always a good combination for marketing material; unreliable AND unavailable.


Stupidity knows no bounds. EV or ICE, some folks just aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, no matter what the topic is.
And that stupidity also knows no bounds when it comes to folks who over-hype the world of EV capability ... Just sayin' ....


Fine; if the EV lifestyle fits your needs and wants, then by all means continue the course. Nothing wrong with that.



I think EVs are a great tool for some applications; they certainly can make for a good decision in some circumstances. However, I do not for one second believe they are the right tool for all applications. Like all other tools, EVs have proper and improper uses.
You appear to defend EVS as if they are unassailable; clearly not the case. And I believe your claims to be exaggerated for effect; you're welcome to prove otherwise, but bring PROOF and not your suppositions.

.

I have a hill. Its 27% incline, 300ft long. Its my driveway. Ive driven all manner of vehicles up it in the snow...or attempted. The EVs do best. Its hard for me to "prove" this though...

As to essentials and so forth...you can math this...it has a 77.4kw battery, about 74kw usable, V2L usable down to 20%.

No, they are not best for all use cases, but most of the objections many have, have not been proven out in the 1.5 years I've used EV.

 

[whiplash473]

My EV6 GT is 4800#. A BMW X4M is 4600#. Pretty similar, really.

I'll be honest, I had to Google both of those. I'll take your word for them being comparable and yes, closer in weight than I would have thought.

 

[Passport1]

EVs aren't really suitable for cold Wx. Besides why would anybody want to out on the course in the winter?

 

[demarpaint]

He can bring his EV on all seasons and I'll bring my Subaru on winter tires...

I'd bet on the Subaru as being much better in the snow and cold weather than any EV, and more reliable.

 

[Astro_Guy]

Question to you EV owners about preconditioning the battery. I know that Lithium ion batteries should not be charged when they are below 0 C. What I don't understand is why they can't be preconditioned while connected to a charging station. Altenatively, maybe they can but the process is extermely slow. Please enlighten me.

FWIIW I have an off grid solar application at home with LiFePO4 battery storage. The battery could possibly reach 0 F in extreme circumstances. Nevertheless my battery has an internal heater to precondition itself and the BMS diverts power from the solar panel until the battery reaches about 3 C. Do your EVs do something similar while connected to a charging station?

 

[gfh77665]

Cue up the grumpy old man: "I told you so"

Where are you getting the "grumpy" label from?

Cue up the intelligent, accurate, level headed, independently thinking people who did not fall for the EV hype.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Question to you EV owners about preconditioning the battery. I know that Lithium ion batteries should not be charged when they are below 0 C. What I don't understand is why they can't be preconditioned while connected to a charging station. Altenatively, maybe they can but the process is extermely slow. Please enlighten me.

FWIIW I have an off grid solar application at home with LiFePO4 battery storage. The battery could possibly reach 0 F in extreme circumstances. Nevertheless my battery has an internal heater to precondition itself and the BMS diverts power from the solar panel until the battery reaches about 3 C. Do your EVs do something similar while connected to a charging station?

Not sure if this answers your question, but when I need a top off on the road, the car will suggest a Supercharger location based on a number of variables, charger availability being one of them. Click on the one you want and a "preconditioning" message will appear when appropriate. Conversely, if I just stop and plug in, the car will tell me "consider preconditioning next time" will speed up charging.

 

[Torrid]

Question to you EV owners about preconditioning the battery. I know that Lithium ion batteries should not be charged when they are below 0 C. What I don't understand is why they can't be preconditioned while connected to a charging station. Altenatively, maybe they can but the process is extermely slow. Please enlighten me.

FWIIW I have an off grid solar application at home with LiFePO4 battery storage. The battery could possibly reach 0 F in extreme circumstances. Nevertheless my battery has an internal heater to precondition itself and the BMS diverts power from the solar panel until the battery reaches about 3 C. Do your EVs do something similar while connected to a charging station?

They can precondition while plugged in, but you'll be waiting a bit to actually get a charge. It's quicker to precondition while driving since current is flowing from driving anyway and just replace that power used on the charger. I wouldn't bother using that process at home because if I'm coming home at the end of the day to plug in, there's plenty of time for it to do that in the garage.

My understanding is and of course this could depend on the car is that the coolant is heated and pumped through the batteries when the temperature needs increased.

My main answer though on cold and range is I really don't care. I can't get anyone with questions about range to understand that though. When it's cold and road conditions are bad I stay home unless I have to go to work or go to the store. I don't take long trips at that point. I never have in 39 years. Because of that cold and range has never affected me enough to matter. Range is such a stupid way to look at it. Rate of consumption and charging time matters way more than range, but we're fixated on how far the car goes on a charge like that's a set number. It's a completely backward way of looking at it and why we've never done that with ICE vehicles.

Where are you getting the "grumpy" label from?

Cue up the intelligent, level headed, independently thinking people who did not fall for the EV hype.

Oh the hype... The only ones that think it's hype are the ones getting "grumpy" about it on the internet. Last I checked this is the EV forum and somehow that's meant a bunch of posts of "I'd never own one" or "defend your stupid purchase because I'm not stupid enough to buy one". Tone has a lot of to do with it and being so "I'm better because I'd never" is just intentionally wasting your breath because you want to see a reaction. It adds absolutely nothing of value to a thoughtful conversation. Just an honest observation.