I don't want a new car!

[antiqueshell]

Not to mention the fact that today's vehicles, even the more basic ones are fat, porky, and most are NOT nimble or light on their feet when it comes to handling. Heck a decade or more ago there were many basic inexpensive small vehicles that could provide some decent handling...today the same is not true. Bloated boats comes to mind with numb electronic steering and sleep inducing suspensions. I'm not against some technology where it makes sense, for example OBD II and engine management helps making diagnosis easier, but the rest including infotainment systems, and fancy dash panels do NOTHING for me, and you KNOW they will cost you in the long run. As for sunroofs, p/w, and p/l...being "mature" technology...well they still seem to break more than the mechanical versions and as for sunroofs well in the thirty years I have been old enough to be around cars they still break and become a liability just as much today. They are ALWAYS leaking after about 3 or 4 years no matter the make or model

Also these cars today are so darn expensive even the more basic ones, that many of these buyers will be screwed when the warranty runs out but they still have repair bills in three or four years down the road, and they are STILL paying on that 72 month loan.LOL
The repo business is going to become really big again in a few years.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
New cars MIGHT be more reliable in the short term, but wait until that complicated digital dash fails or some other complex electronic component fails. It will literally cost you a fortune to repair it, thus you will end up buying a new one and junking the old. But we're not talking a decade or more , it might be only 7 or 8 years when these new complex items fail or become troublesome.

Also value for the money is in the eye of the beholder.

I don't consider it better value for the money when I get more electronic trinket [censored] in lieu of better basic hard part quality, and better engineered components.


Mostly agreed, but MOST of the U.S. consumers NEVER, EVER keep a car for 3-4 years, let alone 7-8, they just lease a new one and pay the penalty, or take a hit on trade in and outright BUY a newer model (at least that's the standard operating procedure around here, as my car is considered ANCIENT to these 'upscale' yuppiedrones).

But yes, the one who buys that 3-4 year old car WILL have to face those problems you've stated above.


What are you guys rambling on about?

First. The average car age in US right now is at over 11 years! I believe it's the highest it's ever been in history of American automotive. Sure, most of these cars are probably on 2nd, 3rd, or 4th owner, but that's not the point. The point is that they are still running and on the road with all this "complicated" technology and computers.

Second. That "complicated" electronic cluster is no more complex than the one from a decade ago. Tell me how many cars had a working speedo and odometer when they were cable driven after that car had over 100k miles? I can tell you not many. On the flip side, how often do you hear now of the speedo or odo not working on very high mileage cars, now that they are driven by servo motors?

I will take a servo driven gauge cluster or hvac controls over a vacuum actuated type a 100 times over. A cable driven hvac control system, like in my Mazda 3 or Focus is fine, but for gauges I would never go back to cable driven ones, EVER!

I'm all for simple vehicles, but let's face it, technology marches on and actually matures enough to be much reliable than the one it replaced. The cutting edge and new stuff, like the new infortainment systems, radar cruse controls and other high end features will naturally be more trouble prone, but it's not like every car is stuffed with these options. The rest is as reliable/durable as it gets.

 

[lovcom]

Am I the only 53+ year old that loves, embraces, and sees the reality of better reliability, that ONLY progress and technology has given us in today's late model cars?!? LOTS of out of touch folks posting on this thread. Wow!!

 

[Jarlaxle]

Clearly, you have never had to replace an electronic HVAC control! The bill is eye-popping.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Clearly, you have never had to replace an electronic HVAC control! The bill is eye-popping.


Yes I get what you're saying, but that is just ONE instance of a problem. For most folks, electronics never go out for the entire life of their car; no moving parts. And NO, there is no epedemic of components falling off of circuit boards, as was said earlier. Sure that might happen but extremely rare.

Cars are very easy to work on. You just have to have the training.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Yes, if you trade every few years, its great. When you discover that your car now needs a $1000+ repair because a wire broke (seen it!), not so much!

Note: after 34 years, the low-tech HVAC system in my F350 works perfectly!

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Yes, if you trade every few years, its great. When you discover that your car now needs a $1000+ repair because a wire broke (seen it!), not so much!

Note: after 34 years, the low-tech HVAC system in my F350 works perfectly!


Not very scientific. One F350. Just one of millions.

Using your logic, a man that claims he is 80 and never got lung cancer claims smoking is safe.

NOT!

 

[Jarlaxle]

I dont remember the last.mechanical HVAC tnat I saw fail. I know of MANY failed electronic ones!

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: lovcom

Cars are very easy to work on. You just have to have the training.


That's a pretty weak argument. You can have all the training in the world, that doesn't mean taking apart an entire dash of a vehicle to fix the HVAC becomes any less tedious.

 

[Jarlaxle]

And even if you CAN install it yourself...that doesn't help a whole lot when the part you need is $600!

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: lovcom

Cars are very easy to work on. You just have to have the training.


That's a pretty weak argument. You can have all the training in the world, that doesn't mean taking apart an entire dash of a vehicle to fix the HVAC becomes any less tedious.


Nearly all dashboards dealing with HVAC, radios, stereos are very complicated to work with. This is true for new cars, old cars, all cars.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: lovcom
Often a tech need only plug the car into their computer, and the car tells the tech which part is faulty, what the problem is, or at least points them in the right direction.


IF ONLY the above were true!!

It is the ONLY area where I wish the OBD 2 system were MUCH MORE technical and involved, as there are MANY problems that will NEVER throw a DTC code, which can/will STILL prevent a car from starting, running, or stay running.

yep, but you gotta admit he has a good point. The diagnostics are fabulously advanced and literally do tell you what is wrong. But folks who say a new car is easier than an old car to actually work on likely DO NOT fix cars!

I have old maintenance logs going back to the 70's. If vans and pickups are relevant, they have become TONS more reliable into the 2000's. It would seem they improve almost every year.

Another goofy item is the idea that mfgrs should make something cheaper and smaller with fewer features. They would if folks would buy it. They'd sell their Mom to make a buck! The only reason that 'cheepy simplistic special' ain't on the lot is that no one is clamoring for it.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8


Another goofy item is the idea that mfgrs should make something cheaper and smaller with fewer features. They would if folks would buy it. They'd sell their Mom to make a buck! The only reason that 'cheepy simplistic special' ain't on the lot is that no one is clamoring for it.


I personally have had problems looking for low trim levels of even cars like the Focus!

LOL. I have spoken to MANY potential buyers including family, friends, and neighbors that ARE in fact looking for the most basic trim levels of various middle line vehicles BUT YOU CANNOT FIND THEM ON THE CAR LOTS, THEY ARE AS RARE AS HENS' TEETH.

People want those low trim levels but the manufacturers and dealers don't want to sell them because they want to force customers to buy that product with a bigger profit margin.
As usual greed takes the spotlight.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Here's one: just TRY finding a 2500 or 3500 series pickup that isn't a totally-stripped fleet truck OR a loaded $60,000+ "cowboy Cadillac"! There is NOTHING in the middle on the lots!

Heck, try finding a 2WD pickup on a lot in New England!

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8


Another goofy item is the idea that mfgrs should make something cheaper and smaller with fewer features. They would if folks would buy it. They'd sell their Mom to make a buck! The only reason that 'cheepy simplistic special' ain't on the lot is that no one is clamoring for it.


I personally have had problems looking for low trim levels of even cars like the Focus!

LOL. I have spoken to MANY potential buyers including family, friends, and neighbors that ARE in fact looking for the most basic trim levels of various middle line vehicles BUT YOU CANNOT FIND THEM ON THE CAR LOTS, THEY ARE AS RARE AS HENS' TEETH.

People want those low trim levels but the manufacturers and dealers don't want to sell them because they want to force customers to buy that product with a bigger profit margin.
As usual greed takes the spotlight.


That's because the auto industry only cares about their bottom line. If they could make every vehicle exactly the same and still meet their sales goals they would do it. If 51% of buyers want a particular model loaded, and 49% of buyers want that model stripped, all you'll find are loaded models. They don't care about the other 49%. Different option packages requires the auto makers to have to do something different with these vehicles on the assembly line. This slows down production and costs them money. They can also mark up every option for additional profits...in other words, the more options, the more profit they make...remember the days when you could order a vehicle from the dealership with the individual options you wanted? Now you have to pay for option packages...this forces the buyer to pay for stuff they don't need or want and assures a higher profit margin for the brand.

 

[eljefino]

It doesn't cost $300 for cruise control, that's for sure.

Entry level cars have 98% of the parts of the high end ones but sell for 25-30% less. Hmm....

I also despise mixing stuff like cruise and power windows, there are many (some) people who demand one but not the other. Same with stick/ auto trans, leather seats, and sunroofs. Don't box me in!

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell

As usual greed takes the spotlight.

Quote:

That's because the auto industry only cares about their bottom line. If they could make every vehicle exactly the same and still meet their sales goals they would do it. If 51% of buyers want a particular model loaded, and 49% of buyers want that model stripped, all you'll find are loaded models. They don't care about the other 49%. Different option packages requires the auto makers to have to do something different with these vehicles on the assembly line. This slows down production and costs them money. They can also mark up every option for additional profits...in other words, the more options, the more profit they make...remember the days when you could order a vehicle from the dealership with the individual options you wanted? Now you have to pay for option packages...this forces the buyer to pay for stuff they don't need or want and assures a higher profit margin for the brand.



It would be interesting if we could know how many potential sales of new vehicles are lost ENTIRELY due to the narrow minded outrageously greedy mentality on the part of these businesses.

I personally have simply given up on potential new car purchases when I have found it IMPOSSIBLE to find low trim level models available for sale, even when I informed the dealers I would gladly wait for that special order unit.

The last time I made an effort to buy a new car I was at no fewer than five stores and NONE was willing to special order a vehicle even with a deposit. Oh, well I don't NEED a new car, so it can wait a VERY long time.

The look on the faces of those folks at the dealerships is priceless when you tell them goodbye and keep walking out the door.

 

[antiqueshell]

.....and

A few will try and brow beat you into buying what they have in stock. I flat out tell them that their job is to satisfy the customer, and refusing to special order a vehicle counts as NOT performing that part of their job.

 

[MetalSlug]

If you do well in life, its nice to have a new cars or truck and few other toys too

.

 

[andyd]

I would be perfectly happy with another rust free super eta. My strategy is to find a car and stick with it. I bought my first '88 528e in 1996. It had 150k miles on it and was by no means a puff.. I put 200 k more on it over 12 yrs. It never stranded me. I maintained it with with basic tools from my bug days and a Bentley manual.. I found the interweb and the 12 step program for E 28ers. The pair I have now are a little scruffier, due to advancing tin worm, but the cars are very roadworthy still. Nicest commuter car ever. I listened to books on tape and chilled out for 300 miles a week of stall and crawl commuting. It is my first EFI and they were scary to me. But the fear faded away when the EFI didn't break. I smelt gas under the hood and the E 28 ers warned me about old fuel hoses. I followed their instructions and Bentley and ran new hoses. It wasn't rocket surgery. I was buying parts at the dealer and putting them on myself. Then I discovered parts on line. The 600$ Rat is up to about 2K$, but that is chump change for having its utility. I no longer have to use my car to commute. So Marina has 2 cars to get her her anywhere. Plus the Rat, it had been 30 yrs since she drove a stick shift. No problemo. Three old cars to choose from. None perfect, all paid for and kept up fairly OK