I can't be the first.. Why won't it work?

[Gary Allan]

My only reference to the 51749 was to compare its size and cost to the average user. If you wanted a bypass filter that could handle your full flow ..I think a Luberfiner 750 would be in order.

Anyway...

What I do know is that having two (2) 51641 bypass filters should give me substantially more surface filtering area then the 51749.. So, both filters should last a substantial time before needing replacing (ESPECIALLY since I will still have the stock, full-flow filter).

They will last twice as long as one 51641 in your originally proposed installation, at least at their highest potential for effectiveness.

Is it economically intelligent for someone to purchase the dual base and run two 51641s instead of a single base and a single 51749? I'm willing to bet the answer to that is a simple, **** No. It may be. Neither of us knows what kind of longevity either system will have in your application. I would think that the most effective manner to use this would be to swap one bypass filter out at a proposed midpoint in the OCI so that you would have approximately the same holding capacity at all time. You would have a 1/2 saturated filter when the other was being swapped out. It will take a couple of UOAs at 10k and 20k (or at 15k just to see if soot levels are on the incline) to see if it's doing the job that you intend. The costs will be slightly out of phase with your cost schedule. You may find that your oil and filter intervals are independant of each other. Your oil may have too much fuel or have lost too much of its visc ..yet soot/insolubles may still be low. You probably won't have to swap out your full flow at midpoint.

Now you see why tp is so popular. It's a quart of oil (at most) and $0.50 for the roll.

I don't do diesel ..or at least I haven't in about 28 years. I think you should post this in the diesel forum to get those opinions. My main thing is exploring the hardware.

I've been there and at least thought of doing that at one time or another.

 

[md_lucky_13]

Actually..

I think I miscalculated..

If I do a 5,000 interval already..

I spend $50 per change (roughly).

1 Change to get me new oil, filter (hypothetical "0" miles)
2 Change at 5k miles
3 Change to get me back to new oil, filter (10k miles)

3 changes X $50 = $150

1 Change with Oil/filter + Bypass ("0" miles)
2 Change with Oil/filter + Bypass (10k miles)

2 changes X $110 = $220


So.. From all of this research I have done, I basically have this conclusion..

It is possible, but it is not economically viable to do, unless I can run 20,000 + changes on both the oil and filters.. Something I don't know will work.


This answers my initial question: no one will do this because, quite frankly, it is a huge waste of money. The money involved to build the system and maintain the system is far less then the money involved with the major companies.

With a single head using the smaller filter, 51641, this might be an economically viable system. I will have to do some more research. If I have a single filter to buy, instead of two $28 filters, it will cut the prices incredibly.


Now.. Anyone know of any other 3/4-16 threaded bypass filters, preferably $10-$20?? That too, might work..

 

[Gary Allan]

Yes, but you're only paying for another 5k with your last $50 ..while you're paying for 10k with your second $110. So it looks like a virtual wash.

That is, you're $150 pays for 15k of usage before needing a refresh, your $220 pays for 20k before a refresh.

Now here's the rub. You go through twice as much oil and don't get the fine(r) filtration.

Unless you already do UOA, then this would add even more expense to determine how long you could go with the bypass setup.

Based on strictly economics ..it doesn't pay with oil costing as little as it does. Another member sent me a spread sheet for a British construction company that kept their trucks 8 years. The difference between the tp filters (3 filters per unit) and regular recommended oil changes was a net loss of $85 per unit, IIRC. The numbers would have tipped in favor of the tp filters if they were installed on the next units ..or perhaps if units were kept until overhaul was required. Then you could probably see a difference. It saved an incredible amount of oil ..something like 200 liters (maybe 400) ..but the cost of the units installed was around $690 when they took labor into account. Now if oil went up 25-50% ..then after it filtered through to the additional added inflationary costs, it would probably be worth it.


btw- the 51050 is $3.18 from fleetfilter.com ..that's before shipping. So if you bought the adapter inserts, you would be in a much cheaper filter. I would imagine that the 51641 would be cheaper from them too, but you're probably looking to drop by a NAPA to pick up what you need ($$).

 

[DaveJ]

Gary,I just posted in my thread that the 51749 has a gasket size of 4.32 inchs,too big for a Permacool housing adapter. DaveJ

 

[Gary Allan]

Yes, it requires it's own mount. A $38 mount available at NAPA.

 

[Gary Allan]

Yes, it requires it's own mount. A $38 mount available at NAPA. It has a 1 3/8" thread

 

[md_lucky_13]

I have been in contact with someone that works at wix, and I got the verdict... the 51641 is the ONLY bypass filter they offer in 3/4-16 threads..

Now, I need to contact NAPA and see if I can get a better price for that filter under their name..

If I can get it down around $20, this system will be worth it.

If I cannot, it will be too much.

He also told me that the most common threads for their bypass filters are 5/8-18, which is the 51050 thread.

For the price, it cannot be beat. He gave me the part number needed for the remote base and the filter number.. I'm also going to look into that as a cost option.


There is no easy way, and the easy way is mined.

 

[md_lucky_13]

Ah Ha!

I have found my system... Not at all what I originally intended to use, but it will do everything I want and not break the bank.

I will buy buying a filter adapter plate #24755 from my local Wix dealer.

I will then be buying filter #51050... This only has a micron rating of 10, but that is still lower then my original idea of 51641 at 12 micron..


The reason for this? Price. Price. Price.

The base will cost me $25.34.

The filter will cost me $6.38... so, my replacement costs are going to be minimal.

I should build the entire system for well under $50. Then, I should be able to do my bypass filter replacement from a very common filter (51050) which I found in stock at 4 places I called..

While my micron rating is no where near Amsoils or TP, I like the idea of this true filter, and ease of replacement meets my original guidlines..

Anyone ever run a return line from a bypass filter back into the engine oil cap? I'm considering doing that... I don't know if I want to drill and tap my valve cover..

I need some cummins experts.

 

[md_lucky_13]

http://www.oilguard.com/Merchant4/m...roduct_Code=EPS-OFCSW-DC&Category_Code=dodge1


Well this is pretty dang slick!! Has anyone every purchased one of these??

I might be able to justify it based on my huge savings in making the system eh? Anyone else know of any sources for caps like these.. I like em!

 

[johnd]

I made one by drilling a stock cap and RTV'd a 90 deg. plastic emissions fitting into it. Worked great and was pretty cheap.

 

[Gary Allan]

Amoil's swivel fitting is $8 ..but I dunno if they terminate it in a AN/JIC thread or not. That would complicate it (more $$$).

 

[md_lucky_13]

What lines would you recommend for doing a bypass system?

Would the simple rubber lines rated to 50 psi work, or should I go hydrolic? (about $25 worth for the hydro fittings, I am told..)

 

[DaveJ]

I did some looking today at K&N Gold full flow filters and found that they say a HP-3001 will filter down to 10 um. It is a 3/4X16 fitting size. I spend $9.50 for each. This does have the 7 to 8 PSI bypass that is spec'ed for MOPAR's. I am running two on my Permacool adapter in my 91 Shadow 2.5 right now. With FF filtering to this size would a bypass filter at 10um be any better? If not any better, why go to the trouble and expence to add a bypass system at 10um? DaveJ

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

---

What lines would you recommend for doing a bypass system?

Would the simple rubber lines rated to 50 psi work, or should I go hydrolic? (about $25 worth for the hydro fittings, I am told..)

---

I'd use power steering hose (cheap) from NAPA (anyone actually). It's cheap and has a good pressure/temp rating. I think you could get away with under $25. Assuming you bought the oil cap return ..and that it has a 1/8" port on it (I'm not sure what it has)..then it's just finding the right hose barb for the tubing and the mount ..a couple of clamps and you're done.

 

[md_lucky_13]

I think the use of a bypass filter sometimes depents on where your baseline is..

For example, in your system, you have a filter with a 7-8 bypass that is spec for your particular motor..

On the cummins engine, the full flow filter doesn't even HAVE a bypass.. So with it set at 7-8 psi, it wouldn't be the same as stock for me.

Also, my stock nominal micron rating is 17 for the filter from wix. So, dropping to 10 in my system is beneficial.

Also, I don't know the burst pressure is, but I wanted to keep that close to stock.. Stock is 350psi, and this bypass is 380.

If anyone knows a 5/8-18 thread bypass that will go even lower then 10 micron, I would love to know about it.. But, my goal was readily availible and somewhat cheap.. Both goals are easily met by the 51050.

 

[md_lucky_13]

Great advice Gary Allan.. But, unfortunentally, my local NAPA is not too bright.

I went in and asked for that line and got nothing but blank stares.

I have some now that is fuel line, but it is only rated to 50 psi, so I don't think I'm going to use it.

I got to thinking about it a little bit more last night, and I think I have a pretty good idea (but wanted to run it by you guys).

The port on top of my filter adapter where I will be drawing oil is 1/8 pipe thread. So are both of the ports on the side of the remote filter adapter..

I was thinking about using grease gun lines. They already have the 1/8 pipe thread, and are rated usually around 3000-4500 psi. There is a place about 7 miles from here that supposedly will build grease lines, and it should be cheaper then the hydrolic hose I was considering.. I'm going to contact them with my lengths and see if I can get a quote.

The longest pre-made size I have found was 3 feet, but I'm also looking to see if anyone has a longer fitting.. I'm checking our tool catelogs at work today also to see if they have anything.. Should be a "fix and forget" item if it does work, thats for sure!

 

[mjo]

Your grease gun lines, they may take lots of pressure but how high a temperature can they withstand? Also, hydraulic lines may be expensive but I bet they'd last a long time. Maybe something to consider.

 

[md_lucky_13]

That is a good point, and I will be sure to check it out before I use them.

I think the 3 footers will be able to reach and make everything work with pleanty of room. I'm planning on using them for now.

I went to a machine shop and gave them the measurements for the bracket I want to use for adapter. I'm going to be removing 1 battery tie down and replacing it with a tie down/remote bracket. It should work out pretty slick when said and done.


I have gone over my initial budget a little bit, but I'm willing to accept a higher cost for a product that will last me forever. I'm still leaps and bounds below most of the major manufactors, espeically when considering up-keep costs.

 

[md_lucky_13]

Anyone getting tired of the constant posts and questions yet?

Well, I checked on the grease lines.. They claim they are only good to 212* .... I was slighly confused?

So, I called the place that was going to make my hydraulic lines... and they told me that their hydraulic lines are only good to 212*, also...

This is a place that is constantly working on farm equipment and the like.. I thought that hydraulic fluid got extremely hot, even hotter then engine oil?

Should I be worried about this? I think either a 18" or 24" line might work.. One major problem I am facing is that the oil port I will use comes out of the engine block directly under the exhaust manifold.. So I know it is going to bake it.

 

[Gary Allan]

Permacool



..but I know I've see commonly available 300F hose ..as in cheap.