I am tired of everybody saying 20 wt oils exist only for gas mileage

427Z06 · Apr 29, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by TallPaul:
Let's give it it's own forum, Thick vs. Thin. Worked to consolidate GC discussion.

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding...yes folks we have a winner!!

Paul, looks like you just won the boobie prize.

427Z06 · Apr 29, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by moribundman:
If a 5W-30 shears to 5W-20, does that imply a 5W-20 will stay in grade?

Give us the links to all you find in the UOA section. Heck, let me make it real easy for you, find at least one.

mechtech · Apr 29, 2005

This topic has been beat so much, that what started out as a 30 is now sheared to a 20 anyways!

ex_MGB · Apr 29, 2005

Does anyone know why Mobil chose to bring out the original Mobil 1 in 0W-20? Were they trying to achieve the same wear as the contemporary dino higher viscosity oils?

[ April 30, 2005, 02:05 AM: Message edited by: ex_MGB ]

jtantare · Apr 29, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by moribundman:
[QB] Does anybody want me to scan my '89 German manual which lists 5W-20 for my VW? I don't know why now some of you claim that 5W-20 oil does not exist in Europe. 5W-20 oil HAVE been around for a long time! Of course that doesn't mean people use them.

YES! Please show us where VW specifies 5w20 for all temp ranges especially high speed driving. Obviously 5w20 is available in Europe for low temps. But for fuel economy at 120kph on a 30C day? I don't think so.
Are we supposed to believe the fact that 5w20 is specified in the only market with CAFE requierements is pure coincidence while the rest of the world uses 40 and 50 weight oils in the exact same engines?

moribundman · Apr 29, 2005

quote:

YES! Please show us where VW specifies 5w20 for all temp ranges especially high speed driving. Obviously 5w20 is available in Europe for low temps. But for fuel economy at 120kph on a 30C day? I don't think so.

"Obviously"? The repeatedly made claim that 5W-20 wasn't and isn't available in Europe says the opposite of what you claim to be obvious. As I pointed out in an earlier post in this thread, 5W-20 was listed already in my '89 VW's case as an option for temperatures under 10 degree F. I was just trying to show that the claim that 5W-20 was not specified in Europe was erroneous. I think I've also made it clear on more than enough occasions that I would never use that stuff.

[ April 30, 2005, 02:23 AM: Message edited by: moribundman ]

moribundman · Apr 29, 2005

quote:

Give us the links to all you find in the UOA section. Heck, let me make it real easy for you, find at least one. [Wink]

Find one what? An example of a 5W-20 staying a 5W-20 or what? Maybe you could be a bit more specific.

What about you giving us links to all the 5W-30 oils that sheared to a 5W-20? Obviously you keep track, so you should be able to back up your claim, which, by the way, I'm in no way disputing, with hard data!

427Z06 · Apr 29, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by moribundman:
Find one what? An example of a 5W-20 staying a 5W-20 or what? Maybe you could be a bit more specific.

Yes. Find examples of 5W-20s not staying a 5W-20 in the UOA section. I see you read and think slowly, so I will type these post slower for ya'.

quote:

Originally posted by moribundman:
What about you giving us links to all the 5W-30 oils that sheared to a 5W-20? Obviously you keep track, so you should be able to back up your claim, which, by the way, I'm in no way disputing, with hard data!

As Dennis Miller would say upon entering a confessional, "You first".

moribundman · Apr 29, 2005

quote:

Yes. Find examples of 5W-20s not staying a 5W-20 in the UOA section. I see you read and think slowly, so I will type these post slower for ya'. [Razz] [Big Grin]

See below.

quote:

As Dennis Miller would say upon entering a confessional, "You first". [Big Grin]

You came up with the suggestion of citing source material to back up claims, so the honor is all yours. UOAs -- very dangerous. You go first.

ex_MGB · Apr 29, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by ex_MGB:
Does anyone know why Mobil chose to bring out the original Mobil 1 in 0W-20? Were they trying to achieve the same wear as the contemporary dino higher viscosity oils?

Well, after research, given that it came out in 1974 during the "oil crisis" and given Mobil's claims it improved mileage by 5%, I guess it was introduced as a 0W-20 due to the enhanced fuel economy aspect.

427Z06 · Apr 29, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by moribundman:
UOAs -- very dangerous. You go first.

OK wimpy, here it is.

moribundman · Apr 29, 2005

Well, now you know why I've never used 5W-30 dino oil.

My point was and still is that while synthetic 0W-20 oil maybe doesn't shear as much as 5W-30 dino, I question whether or not the remaining safety margin of any XW-20 oil is acceptable when oil thinning due to shearing or fuel dilution is a realistic possibility. And what about dino 5W-20 oils? As for the oil thinning and then thickening, wouldn't that thickening be the precursor to black sludge?

427Z06 · Apr 29, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by moribundman:
And what about dino 5W-20 oils?

Oh, I see your not only a wimp, but lazy too.

In reality, I haven't seen one yet. Less VII to make a dino 5w-20 than to make dino 5w30 is a good guess as to why you won't see many shear out.

I've got a feeling that you VW/Audi owners who have never owned a new tight Honda engine will never grasp the concept of a quality 5w20. I've owned both, and I can say unequivocally, they're different beasts altogether.

Gary Allan · Apr 29, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by TallPaul:
I should hope that Europe is not so unfree that the people could not get 5w20 oil if the consumer demand were large enough and that the automakers could not specify it, were it better for the engine.

I certainly agree that it's not "better" for the engine. I think it's also not worse. It seems to me that America's junkyard "fleet" is the best evidence on the planet that oil selection and even most drain habits are completely irrelevant to engine life.

IMHO, the simple fact is that 20-weight oils DO exist only for gas mileage; it's just that oil viscosity is one of the least significant factors there is to engine life.

Yes. I imagine that we don't see much use of 5w-30 in Europe either ..yet is the number one oil used here. Why is that? Do we destroy engines here with its use? Does Europe save engines without its use? (visions from RoboCop as Jerry Orbach plays a SWAT team leader/negotiator talking with a form city employee gone postal- "I want a big car that goes really fast and get really $hitty gas mileage!!" .."Sure, pal. How about a 2000 SUX? I'll even throw in a Blaupunkt.").

We will eventually find 5w-20 being our oil of choice in the near future for our mass motoring fleet ....and we will still have a mass motoring fleet.

I was trying to find the UOA where someone had gone 10k with 5w-20 MC in their F150 in a construction environment ..but I couldn't. I tried to find UOA's that weren't in Hondas ..not easy.

Excessive shear of 20 weights:

5w-20 shearing out of grade UOA UOA

[ April 30, 2005, 08:20 AM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]

427Z06 · Apr 29, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:

Excessive shear of 20 weights:

5w-20 shearing out of grade UOA UOA

This is a joke, right?

Gary Allan · Apr 29, 2005

No!

I'm dead serious!!

(or did I have a brain ****

They happen from time to time

I'm told it's all part of the aging process

)

AEHaas · Apr 29, 2005

I do not have the gumption right now to go back and look but I have been keeping a mental note of 20 wt oils thinning. Most stay the same and some thicken but one did thin. I forgot if there was fuel dilution present.

As I am running high power and RPM in this experiment I am looking at it from all angles. So far so good though.

I just got a UOA back on my neighbors 550 Maranello using the recommended 5W-40 Shell Helix Ultra oil. I will post it in the other section soon. It will be side by side to my Maranello on a 20 wt diet.

aehaas

TallPaul · Apr 29, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by 427Z06:

quote:

Originally posted by TallPaul:
Let's give it it's own forum, Thick vs. Thin. Worked to consolidate GC discussion.

Click to expand...

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding...yes folks we have a winner!!

Paul, looks like you just won the boobie prize.

Yeah, guess you're right. It was a dumb idea.

If we take the thick vs. thin discussions to a separate forum, the Car and Truck Gas Engine Oil forum will only be a shadow of its former self:

We'll have ruined a perfectly good forum. There will be little left to talk about in the Car and Truck Gas Engine Oil forum. After all, this is the most popular topic in this forum right now at 7 pages, and all us "boobies" posting here are loving it.

427Z06 · Apr 29, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by TallPaul:
Yeah, guess you're right. It was a dumb idea.

No, on the contrary, I thought it was a great idea.

427Z06 · Apr 29, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
No!

I'm dead serious!!

(or did I have a brain ****

They happen from time to time

I'm told it's all part of the aging process

)

No problem, I'm one step behind you. And I hear it only gets worse.

I didn't see any 5w20s thinning out of grade in those UOAs. Is my vision going faster than my mind?

I am tired of everybody saying 20 wt oils exist only for gas mileage

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