HyperMile

[PandaBear]

Back in my FutureCar days in college, one team member developed a 2L brake booster vacuum chamber for the electric mode so we will not have to worry about insufficient brake. I guess as long as you build a leak proof booster to support your hyper mile driving you will be fine.

 

[eljefino]

I remember a late 80's s10 with manual brakes. I confirmed the lack of a vacuum booster on the MC on one I test-drove.

They were kind of wierd but they gave the pedal more mechanical advantage so I'm sure they stopped okay.

 

[George7941]

I had a 1972 VW411 that had no assist for the brakes. It stopped well enough.

I had a 1982 Mazda B2000 p/u that had no steering assist and I got used to the steering and it did not bother me.

As for hypermiling, I have been doing it all my life, starting in the early sixties. To this day I take great pleasure in adjusting my speed approaching a red light to ensure that I arrive just after the light has turned green. Everybody else around me race up to the lights and then wait. Ninety nine times out of a hundred, I will be the person doing the least braking when approaching a red light.

 

[BrianWC]

Umm, on most power-assisted brake cars I've ever driven, you usually have enough presure built p for one or two more brake applications. As for power steering, hah.. geeez....we are a spoiled lot aren't we?

I don't have a manual trans car at the moment so I can't do anything other than feather the throttle, drive slow, and keep the a/c off as much as possible. Oh, and I even draft semis a bit as my Scangauge still shows a noticeable increase in mpg 8-10 car legnths away.

I recorded a trip mpg yesterday of 38.4 mpg driving 65 mph, no a/c and drafting. I had to drop down to 34 mpg b/c I had to hurry home this afternoon....

 

[glennc]

There is a difference between a car without power steering (or brakes), and a car with power steering (brakes) where the assist has stopped functioning. Besides the adjustment needed when the assist disappears and re-appears, there is much higher effort than if the system were designed not to have it in the first place, especially with brakes.

My '88 Sentra lacked power steering and I loved it, and would find it a perfectly satisfactory car to drive, even today. It did of course have power brakes.

 

[BrianWC]

It's certainly a higher effort but it's still not as high as most would think, having maybe just turned an unassited wheel with the car stationary with ignition off. With the car moving, the effort not as much. But yeah, in my old Bimmer, the ratio was so crazy that it seemed like it was half a turn from lock to lock.

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: glennc

My '88 Sentra lacked power steering and I loved it, and would find it a perfectly satisfactory car to drive, even today. It did of course have power brakes.


Agreed. I used to drive an '88 Tercel with no power steering and it was nice and direct. When I was looking to buy a new car I was a little sad that nothing came without power steering. I might've gone really cheap to get something like that.

 

[Gary Allan]

My 78 320i was manual steering.

Folks ..no two ways about it ..power steering without power is much harder. Power brakes without vacuum is much harder.

And getting up out of your chair to change your channel is MUCH HARDER than using the remote.

It's not like anyone is trying to do a fork lift's work here. Some of you may have lost some muscle mass in your advanced years ..but it's not a Herculean effort to make these things work in JUST as effective a manner if one is so compelled to do so.

I'm going to offer a line of cars with titanium shielding in the roof to provide protection from stray meteor showers. How can anyone drive without protection from this potentially lethal threat?? Anyone who doesn't have it is just making a death wish.

 

[BrianWC]

What about lead-shielded electronics for stray EMPs?

And yeah, my old BMW was an 82 320i. Still miss that car and almost got another one off fleabay other day. I think they only weighed 1,800 lbs. Now that would be a help in hypermiling!

 

[glennc]

Unfortunately the early 3-series as sold in the US has all sorts of near-fatal flaws, making it not nearly the wonderful, light, spirited-handling car it should have been. Also, almost all of them are ragged as heck by now, having gone through the hands of multiple uncommitted owners since, oh, about 1990 or so, when they started to get cheap enough to be bought by people who wanted a BMW but didn't have the money or knowledge to maintain it properly.

I think they are beautiful cars. I have some old print ads featuring those cars that I want to frame and hang in the garage.

Mileage is, unfortunately, one of the many things that fell victim to the emissions regulations as they were applied at that time - and even in Euro trim they were not particularly efficient cars.

 

[Gary Allan]

I could get 30 out of mine if I drove it with an egg between my foot and the gas pedal. It ran like dog dirt the next start. Mine was the last year for leaded fuel and (I think) point distributor. 24-25 driving it the way it appeared to be comfortable with. The 79 was allegedly much more economical and required less tune maintenance. I could get 35 out of Citation with a 2.8/auto ..and over 40 out of a Chevette. These were all instances of single warm up and feather footing it the entire way when I drove over 300 miles a night. Fuel was way too cheap and time too precious to me to do that often.

 

[Shannow]

Been playing these silly games with my E-30 the last week. Auto-Rx cut the compression requirement, so I can run on $1.58/litre regular unleaded.

Previous owner did the air con delete, and I'm planning on doing a power steering delete in the not too distant future.

The ratio unboosted is lovely...except for parking.

Was looking at re discovering my lost youth and getting one of my all time favourite cars (1979 UC torana). Could not beleive how heavy the steering was after a decade and a half of powered steering.

As an aside, if driving without power assisted steering and brakes was as dangerous as portrayed in these threads, then they wouldn't exist, due to the infinitely clever manners in which IC engines turn themselves off...It would be too risky,

 

[BrianWC]

Originally Posted By: glennc
Unfortunately the early 3-series as sold in the US has all sorts of near-fatal flaws, making it not nearly the wonderful, light, spirited-handling car it should have been.


Compared to the 2002, that's a true statement. But to anything else??? I was one of those folks who got one "cheap." It was my first car and I believe my parents paid $5900 for it with around 80k miles on it and fresh of its second owner. It had the "S" package with Recaros, BBS wheels, LSD, and lower front airdam. Someone had replaced the "S" steering wheel with a wooden MOMO wheel. I promptly subscribed to European Car and found out about Bavarian Autosport. But mine was troublefree. I replaced the clutch and AC compressor....

I don't remember what my mpg was, but I drove the snot out of it. I sold it to buy a Probe, of all things, and the kid I sold it to blew the motor inside of six months. RIP. But I would think that one in good condition under the right circumstances would be able to break 30 mpg fairly easy and maybe if you tinkered with it..who knows. I'm sure not many people tried to every tune for max mpg in that car.....

 

[ericthepig]

I don't plan to part ways with my 88 323 anytime soon, but if I did I used to think I'd be doing good to get $1k out of it. But now with gas prices, and the fact that it runs like a top and is a perfect set-up for hypermiling - I might find a buyer that would go way higher. Plus there's a bit of a 323 cult out there on the web.

I'll report back on my hypermiling mpg (I haven't chged anything else - tire pressure, etc is the same) - I want to get it to abour 250 miles - that was where I did the last city mpg test (I've tested hiway several times, but have never tested pure "around town" till that last test). It might be a couple of wk before I get there - it's a short tripper, and I'm going to be out of town some with the Sienna over the next couple of wks.

BTW, the two safety issues I've seen with HM so far is I have to resist the urge to run "pink" lights, and taking corners fast when your not fully aware of what's around the corner - this also had to be taken out of the equation.

 

[Audi Junkie]

For those who like aero mods...

(note the pre-spoiler)

For more fun, I'll add this newer one too...

(note the winglets)

 

[glennc]

Originally Posted By: BrianWC
Originally Posted By: glennc
Unfortunately the early 3-series as sold in the US has all sorts of near-fatal flaws, making it not nearly the wonderful, light, spirited-handling car it should have been.


Compared to the 2002, that's a true statement. But to anything else??? I was one of those folks who got one "cheap." It was my first car and I believe my parents paid $5900 for it with around 80k miles on it and fresh of its second owner. It had the "S" package with Recaros, BBS wheels, LSD, and lower front airdam. Someone had replaced the "S" steering wheel with a wooden MOMO wheel. I promptly subscribed to European Car and found out about Bavarian Autosport. But mine was troublefree. I replaced the clutch and AC compressor....


My comments were mainly a reflection on those cars compared to their alternatives from today's perspective. Don't get me wrong, I love 'em, but every time I think about how fun one would be to own, I can't get away from a 2002 or a later E30 (as I have now) being a better choice. Among the near-fatal flaws I mentioned:

- Heavy bumpers on US models that added something like 200lb, at exactly the wrong place on the car for good handling.

- Rust problems - Mike Miller says the E21 is the only BMW that rusts more than the '02s, which is saying something.

- Emissions controls that sapped power and economy. This is the reason a near-stock US E21 can't get the kind of 30-40mpg economy you would normally expect from a small, light four-cylinder. IIRC some of these actually use the awful pre-catalytic-converter "thermal reactor" systems, which were absolutely awful. Later ones were better, but still crude and inefficient.

Even so, maybe I was exaggerating. The truth is I'd love to have one of these. They have great, lively chassis and should be an absolute ball to drive, but the reality is that as US models go, an E30 or a 2002 is probably a better choice, today, for most drivers.

Merely my very humble opinion, of course.

 

[leftlane]

On another forum I read several different people posting that when coasting downhill with your foot off the pedal that you burn no fuel even at high rpms (engine braking) with EFI engines and that you actually burn more fuel when coasting in neutral at idle than when coasting downhill in gear because during the downhill coast in gear the injectors cut off the fuel supply since none is needed.

Ive always believed the injectors lowered the amount of fuel during these downhill coasts but Ive never heard anyone say that they completely shut off the fuel supply. If that was true then it would be better than coasting in neutral at idle and would certainly be better than turning your engine off while coasting which I personally would not do anyway. Whats your take?

 

[BrianWC]

Yes, most cars do cut fuel over a certain rpm with no throttle application. On my car, an auto, this only occurs with the torque converter locked up. When it happens, my Sanguage's readout goes to "9999." Most people will tell you, though, that the increased drag of keeping the transmission engaged negates the gain over switching the car to neutral and shutting it off if possible. As for an automatic car, where you can't shut it off, I'd guess for most driving the better option would be to keep the car in gear verses switching to neutral, if the engine is going to be on and using fuel....

 

[Shannow]

Checked my E30 (early '80s model, leaded fueled, open loop injection system), and it's definitely fueling on over-run.

It's got an awesome burble on over-run that ceases with the ignition off (accompanied by greater engine braking), and a loud pop when restarted.

 

[rationull]

The deceleration fuel cutoff is common on newer EFI cars but not on older ones to my knowledge. I'm not sure when the changeover took place. My 07 Civic's service manual says, IIRC, that fuel cutoff occurs when off throttle and over something like 1000-1200 RPMs. I had an '83 280zx that only did fuel cutoff when off throttle and between 4000 and 6000 RPMs or some similar range (not quite sure what the usefulness of that is...).

I'm not sure what the difference is. I imagine that newer systems with better ECUs and better monitoring can do it in more situations without risking a stall or something.