Hydrogen Neue Klasse EV?

[JeffKeryk]

BMW Hydrogen cars....
I understand it's widely accepted that hydrogen will play a role in the global decarbonization of energy, but hydrogen cars fell pretty flat around here.
FYI Silicon Valley was Toyota's testing ground for the ugly Murai.
Where will owners fuel up? Ain't much infrastructure... And hydrogen ain't cheap.

I am dying to see the incredible Neue Klasse platform. Apparently it can accept hydrogen or battery fueling.

 

[Brett776]

Could be a great idea if they found a cost effective way to produce hydrogen. The constant argument is how much energy it takes to make it. I don’t know the answer but the idea of it is pretty cool.

 

[oil pan 4]

BMW Hydrogen cars....
I understand it's widely accepted that hydrogen will play a role in the global decarbonization of energy, but hydrogen cars fell pretty flat around here.
FYI Silicon Valley was Toyota's testing ground for the ugly Murai.
Where will owners fuel up? Ain't much infrastructure... And hydrogen ain't cheap.

I am dying to see the incredible Neue Klasse platform. Apparently it can accept hydrogen or battery fueling.

Hahaha no it won't.
Do you have any idea how much hydrogen costs per mile to power a car?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Hahaha no it won't.
Do you have any idea how much hydrogen costs per mile to power a car?

Sure. It was like $200 to fill a Mirai. So expensive that Toyota was subsidizing it. Owners were reporting under 300 mile range.
So hydrogen cost per mile was sky high, which is one reason they lost favor pretty quickly. There were 3 stations near me that served hydrogen.

So maybe 3x the price of gas and 15x electricity. For owners like me who pay next to nothing for electricity, the difference is ridiculous.

 

[MrHorspwer]

Do you have any idea how much hydrogen costs per mile to power a car?

Apply that same sentiment to commercial air travel.

In 1950, the question was, "Do you have any idea how much an airline flight costs per mile?"

The answer is always the same: 10 years ago, it cost more than it does now. 10 years in the future, it'll cost even less.

That's how technology works when it comes to costs.

 

[alarmguy]

Apply that same sentiment to commercial air travel.

In 1950, the question was, "Do you have any idea how much an airline flight costs per mile?"

The answer is always the same: 10 years ago, it cost more than it does now. 10 years in the future, it'll cost even less.

That's how technology works when it comes to costs.

Well said, true innovation comes from open minds.
Whenever a new technology or new thinking comes along there are always the closed mind group and cost is one hurdle of almost any new technology thinking.

I don’t know if h2 will ever be in consumer cars on a large scale but it will and is currently used by large corporations such as Amazon and Walmart for specialized applications such as h2 fuel cell powered warehouse forklifts.

h2 might also be used for electric power in commercial buildings and cross country semi’s, oh! Airplanes too!

Remember at one time that the world was flat?

This is a tiny snippet for now because I am going back to sleep.
https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/3-nuclear-power-plants-gearing-clean-hydrogen-production

The above link isn’t a “one off either” integrating h2 production into the new generation of nuclear power plants.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0360319920348175

 

[OVERKILL]

Apply that same sentiment to commercial air travel.

In 1950, the question was, "Do you have any idea how much an airline flight costs per mile?"

The answer is always the same: 10 years ago, it cost more than it does now. 10 years in the future, it'll cost even less.

That's how technology works when it comes to costs.

Hydrogen does have some considerable issues not present in the FF system however, such as its propensity to leak, requirement to be stored at insanely high pressures to get any reasonable volume/density and its inability to be transported in volumes large enough to power the transport medium, unlike LNG.

The Hindenburg used hydrogen, its commercial use isn't new, the Rivaz engine was also powered by hydrogen, but later work used coal gas.

Hydrogen is a very challenging storage medium and its energy input requirements mean it can never be as cheap as something that occurs naturally in abundance, is easily compressed and transported, and can readily power the transport infrastructure, like methane. Hydrogen is a storage medium instead of an energy source, because it generally doesn't present naturally in isolation and subsequently has to be produced by using energy to separate it from something else, be it methane or water.

Further to @JeffKeryk's point, Shell also exited the retail hydrogen business earlier this year, closing their fueling stations in California, the only place with any sort of decent hydrogen infrastructure presence:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/gaurav...gen-drive-dealt-a-hammer-blow-by-shells-exit/

 

[alarmguy]

I’m posting this one separate because no one will read 90 pages except for a select few but it does show many h2 production methods. No I haven’t read the whole thing yet.

Maybe I am closed minded but I can’t see a way that current lithium battery operated cars can power 300 million cars in the USA nor will it be earth friendly. I won’t be alive to know but some car makers are ready for a world past an extension cord.

https://git2.oecd-nea.org/upload/do..._of_nuclear_power_in_the_hydrogen_economy.pdf

 

[alarmguy]

BMW Hydrogen cars....
I understand it's widely accepted that hydrogen will play a role in the global decarbonization of energy, but hydrogen cars fell pretty flat around here.
FYI Silicon Valley was Toyota's testing ground for the ugly Murai.
Where will owners fuel up? Ain't much infrastructure... And hydrogen ain't cheap.

I am dying to see the incredible Neue Klasse platform. Apparently it can accept hydrogen or battery fueling.

This story is over a decade old. It does have useful information but not sure if your post is just based on that link. The ones I posted are more current.

 

[edyvw]

I just can’t see how this is going to work.

 

[Torrid]

I love hydrogen power, but it's a lost cause. I can't see how this thing doesn't weight nearly 3 tons having both a reasonably ranged battery and a hydrogen tank.

It's BMW. I'm looking at you M5.

 

[oil pan 4]

Apply that same sentiment to commercial air travel.

In 1950, the question was, "Do you have any idea how much an airline flight costs per mile?"

The answer is always the same: 10 years ago, it cost more than it does now. 10 years in the future, it'll cost even less.

That's how technology works when it comes to costs.

Not talking about air travel. That's like a an apples to turds comparison. Flying an airplane is expensive because it's fast and that's acceptable. Fast costs more.
We're comparing a car that drives on the road to another car that drives on the road. Neither one does anything special, it stops it goes, it drives the speed limit.
Hydrogen isn't going to cost less in the future. I heard the same thing 10 years ago when Toyota launched the Mirai. The cost of hydrogen has only been going higher and higher.

 

[kschachn]

I don't know of a proposed fuel that would be worse than hydrogen. The only thing it has going for it is the product of combustion, everything else is dismal from production. storage, transportation and overall energy density.

The topic comes up here quite a bit and still there is no discovered method of circumventing physics and thermodynamics.

 

[oil pan 4]

This story is over a decade old. It does have useful information but not sure if your post is just based on that link. The ones I posted are more current.

That's the best part about it. 10 years gone by and only 2 things changed. Hydrogen has gotten more expensive and only 1 more state has gotten hydrogen stations. Although I can find at least a dozen other states bragging about taking federal money to build hydrogen stations yet we only have 2 states. That second state only has one hydrogen station last I checked.

 

[oil pan 4]

I don't know of a proposed fuel that would be worse than hydrogen. The only thing it has going for it is the product of combustion, everything else is dismal from production storage, transportation and overall energy density.

Agreed. I too know of no worse fuel option than hydrogen. If anybody knows of one, let us know.
It's almost like hydrogen only exists to make BEVs look good.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

BMW Hydrogen cars....
I understand it's widely accepted that hydrogen will play a role in the global decarbonization of energy, but hydrogen cars fell pretty flat around here.
FYI Silicon Valley was Toyota's testing ground for the ugly Murai.
Where will owners fuel up? Ain't much infrastructure... And hydrogen ain't cheap.

I am dying to see the incredible Neue Klasse platform. Apparently it can accept hydrogen or battery fueling.

I have no idea why a performance brand like BMW would invest in hydrogen fuel-cell technology. This makes no sense.

Liquid hydrogen ICE is a nonstarter obviously and this isn't what the press release is talking about.

 

[Vercingetorix]

BMW needs to listen to BITOG, BMW have no clue what they are doing.

 

[kschachn]

BMW needs to listen to BITOG, BMW have no clue what they are doing.

They aren’t doing it because of the superior attributes of H2 as a motor vehicle fuel.

It helps if you understand the motivation.

 

[Vercingetorix]

They aren’t doing it because of the superior attributes of H2 as a motor vehicle fuel.

It helps if you understand the motivation.

Yes, ACO and 2027.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I just can’t see how this is going to work.

Sure. I have to trust, or at least entertain, that incredible companies like BMW and Toyota have far more expertise than I can understand.