hvac is out at the rent house

[The motor guy]

So as usual my tenant waits until the weekend to let me know of a problem. Guess they just don't notice until they're actually home. I have an old R22 system that's about 17 years old. Recently replaced the fan motor upstairs inside the air handler a couple years ago. Most recently last year the fan motor for the outside unit was replaced. Sounds like the outside unit isn't working because they said they're just running the fan right now. What for I have no idea. Tried to get them to just shut everything down until monday, but whatever.

Now with that being said, I'm getting kind of tired of throwing money at this old system and wonder if I should just bite the bullet and get a new system, but i've heard they've changed to a new freon type starting at the beginning of this year, and it sounds like people are pretty leary about it. Can I still snag up an older R410a system? I've heard they're still allowed to be installed as long as the remaining supply lasts. Opinions?

 

[bullwinkle]

I would see what’s wrong with it first-it could be something simple, like a dual run cap, 24V contactor, or burnt off wire. My A/C here is ~30 years old, I put a compressor in it about 8 years ago or so (mechanical failure).

 

[The motor guy]

I would see what’s wrong with it first-it could be something simple, like a dual run cap, 24V contactor, or burnt off wire. My A/C here is ~30 years old, I put a compressor in it about 8 years ago or so (mechanical failure).

They said they changed the capacitor when they changed the fan motor. If they used an el cheapo chinese capacitor then I can see it going bad already. That's why I keep milking this one along because I hear so many people get 30 years out of the older systems. The hvac techs seem to love them too.

 

[dnewton3]

The ability to get a R410a system would depend on regional location (north vs south) and efficiency rating (SEER).

 

[dnewton3]

They said they changed the capacitor when they changed the fan motor. If they used an el cheapo chinese capacitor then I can see it going bad already.

Pretty much all capacitors now come from China; been that way for many years now. They aren't what they used to be, but then again, not much is in the HVAC world these days.

 

[The motor guy]

Pretty much all capacitors now come from China; been that way for many years now. They aren't what they used to be, but then again, not much is in the HVAC world these days.

Very true. Those r410a systems are pretty much pooched after about 10 years too, so we've really gone backwards these days.

 

[KevinDM]

From my understanding the freon which over is on hold for now. R410A can still be installed if you can find one.

 

[dnewton3]

Because the condenser fan is coming on, we can assume the 24v system is working, the low pressure switch is made, and the contactor is working.
That pretty much leaves the capacitor (already discussed), or the compressor itself.

If the compressor is locked up, then don't put any money into an old R22 system. You'd be hard pressed to even find a replacement R22 compressor, and if you did the price would make you cringe. If the compressor is bad, get an R410a system while you still can.

The new A2L systems are more expensive because they use low-flamability refrigerants and therefore the new systems are required to have leak detection systems; all this drives the prices up.

 

[The motor guy]

From my understanding the freon which over is on hold for now. R410A can still be installed if you can find one.

which kind

Because the condenser fan is coming on, we can assume the 24v system is working, the low pressure switch is made, and the contactor is working.
That pretty much leaves the capacitor (already discussed), or the compressor itself.

If the compressor is locked up, then don't put any money into an old R22 system. You'd be hard pressed to even find a replacement R22 compressor, and if you did the price would make you cringe. If the compressor is bad, get an R410a system while you still can.

The new A2L systems are more expensive because they use low-flamability refrigerants and therefore the new systems are required to have leak detection systems; all this drives the prices up.

So other than the leak detection systems, is it still just a basic hvac system like they've had for years? That's the thing with renters is they run the stuff until it doesn't go anymore. I'd imagine if it was the compressor that locked up it would have been pretty noisy for a while beforehand. Something I would have noticed if I lived there.

 

[KevinDM]

which kind

So other than the leak detection systems, is it still just a basic hvac system like they've had for years?

Moving to R-454B and R-32. I’ve had luck with using a hard start capacitor from Supco with a compressor that is having a difficult time getting going.
With the leak detection it will shut the system down completely if a leak is detected. In the past a slow leak would still let the system run.

 

[The motor guy]

Moving to R-454B and R-32. I’ve had luck with using a hard start capacitor from Supco with a compressor that is having a difficult time getting going.
With the leak detection it will shut the system down completely if a leak is detected.

So what's the better one? Why is there two types? I think I heard that one has been in use in europe for years already. I think it was R-32

 

[KevinDM]

So what's the better one? Why is there two types? I think I heard that one has been in use in europe for years already. I think it was R-32

Carrier brands will be using the R454-B as on now with most other brands using the R32. I would go with an R32 system just because it will probably be more widely available and yes it has been used in other countries for many years.

 

[The motor guy]

Pretty much all capacitors now come from China; been that way for many years now. They aren't what they used to be, but then again, not much is in the HVAC world these days.

I'd imagine the heater still works then if the air handler still blows. That's why I go with the heat strips instead of the heat pump system. You don't have to rely on the outside unit to run in the winter.

 

[dnewton3]

There is very, very little difference between R32 and R454B. These both operate at nearly the same pressures (and actually aren't that much off the R410a pressures).

These new systems aren't a giant leap in efficiency or performance. They are only a nod towards using more eco-friendly refrigerants. And because they are flammable, the units must have safety checks built into them (leak detection systems).

 

[The motor guy]

What can I expect to pay for a 3.5 ton just the air handler and outside condenser? I'll reuse the existing ductwork. I also want one with heat strips, no heat pump setup..

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

A cheap China dual run cap can be dead already.

 

[The motor guy]

A cheap China dual run cap can be dead already.

This happened at my house and they said they actually replace them on the goodman units on new installs they were so bad. The tech just said mine was installed before they caught onto it. Actually I think I remember the boss telling them to during the install and I don't think they ever did. It was actually the owner of the company that was helping with the install that day. Not sure if he only does installs or what, but it was kind of nice to see an owner do something besides sit behind a desk.

 

[CarLuver]

first i would try to see whats is wrong with it . Could be a cap. Could be contactor .

 

[The motor guy]

first i would try to see whats is wrong with it . Could be a cap. Could be contactor .

How often should you have to replace capacitors?

 

[CarLuver]

How often should you have to replace capacitors?

not really any set time. test them and if they are bad then jsut replace them . i keep a spare at my rental that the a/c is 22 years old and never changed it . caps and contactors are cheap and easy to replace . lots of folks replace perfectly good units jsut because they are old.