HumbleMechanic speaks to VW's direction and enthusiast community

[1444buicking]

USER=47555]@edyvw[/USER] I agree, however the Dieselgate was a bit of a conundrum. VW made the smallest diesel cars in the US and therefore fell under the most stringent NOx standards. They ultimately decided to keep power and economy with a "European tune" and inserted a cheat code to reduce NOx, power, AND fuel economy when the dyno emissions test was being conducted.

I blame the EPA for the ridiculously low NOx standards for the small car market, other manufacturers were only offering diesels in large vehicles which are less stringent on NOx.

Most VW "dieselgate" cars were sold in Europe so not subject to the EPA.

Regardless the EPA "environmental" standards often are moronic. Now everyone is driving around monster trucks that get 15mpg.

 

[edyvw]

After being the "VW guy" owning many VWs Mk1, several MkII, several B2s and a B5.5 1.8t. Working in a repair shop for many years, I've sold all my VWs and have cleared out most of my stash of parts on ebay over the last decade.

I lost intrest when everything was made out of plastic and reliability kept dwindling.

I loved the cars which were fun to drive, could be kept on the road with minimal costs and I could shift my own gears.

VW began missing the mark when they turned into a Mercedes reliability wise (very poor and very expensive) all while continuously being cheapened with parts which are not serviceable.

@edyvw I agree, however the Dieselgate was a bit of a conundrum. VW made the smallest diesel cars in the US and therefore fell under the most stringent NOx standards. They ultimately decided to keep power and economy with a "European tune" and inserted a cheat code to reduce NOx, power, AND fuel economy when the dyno emissions test was being conducted.

I blame the EPA for the ridiculously low NOx standards for the small car market, other manufacturers were only offering diesels in large vehicles which are less stringent on NOx.View attachment 268958

I don’t think there is excuse. BMW offered at the same time X5 (tested in that test by students against Passat) and 328xDrive with N47 2.0 diesel.
Problem was that their 1.9 PD engines would never meet NOx standards and they moved to CR diesels, but by that time they lost a lot if ground focusing on PD diesels while others gained a lot of ground with CR diesels, particularly BMW and FIAT. They also wanted cheap vehicle in the US, one without SCR. That is what draw attention.

 

[Ranger83]

///

There are many companies that have discovered that relying on price sensitive customers doesn't end well. Joann is the latest victim, but they, like others in their market rely heavily on discounts and coupons to attract shoppers into their stores are playing a risky game. JCPenney was in the same boat, and found that the minute those incentives ended, so did what little loyalty their customers had.

That's not to say that the additional costs in the business case can be ignored, but it's still a questionable approach to offer compromised (at least to those in the know) product to meet a cost, versus putting the best product out there, to attract quality customers, even at higher costs, or fewer sales.

To answer the rumors of a US pullout, VW did recommit, build the TN plant, and develop more tailored product for the US market. That product, the Americanized Passat, was meant to give customers what VW thought American customers wanted -- more room, mainly -- but made compromises elsewhere. IIRC, that also carried forward with the Jetta sedan (a body style more popular in the US and China).

///

In Germany labor rules are much more restrictive than in the U.S.. The result is baked-in higher labor costs. German manufacturers have migrated from the value segment and performance segments to luxury/prestige markets in export markets.

This left VW in a tough spot as they were always the value brand relative to Audi, BMW and Mercedes. Those brands are often leased so that market is less sensitive to high prices.

The value market VW would probably like to climb out of is price sensitive and reliability/durability sensitive. There, the obstacle is low quality. Despite appealing interior and exterior design and good vehicle dynamics, in the U.S. VW has consistently ranked low in dependability and owner satisfaction.

Those numbers change by year and model: Buick, for example, currently has very high reliability and very low owner satisfaction. Vehicles with high emotional involvement like Jeep or Mini or Ducati or Harley can sometimes have low reliability and high owner satisfaction - that’s the value of branding.

In the U.S. market, demanding federal standards, dominance of Crossovers, value focused, and general lack of driver engagement are all big challenges that do not play to their strengths.

Don’t see that changing, but who knows what Gen Z’ers will want?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

@edyvw I agree, however the Dieselgate was a bit of a conundrum. VW made the smallest diesel cars in the US and therefore fell under the most stringent NOx standards. They ultimately decided to keep power and economy with a "European tune" and inserted a cheat code to reduce NOx, power, AND fuel economy when the dyno emissions test was being conducted.

I blame the EPA for the ridiculously low NOx standards for the small car market, other manufacturers were only offering diesels in large vehicles which are less stringent on NOx.

At that time every BMW and Mercedes diesel sold in the US had SCR(DEF). This included the BMW 335d and the Mercedes E320 CDI. The problem for VW was that they couldn't compete on price with the likes of Toyota and Honda if they installed SCR so they made the decision to lie.

 

[Ranger83]

The only VW we ever owned was an air-cooled Vanagon.
Slow, but very durable and full of character and with as much interior space as some NYC apartments have these days. Pretty easy on gas for a van of that era as well.
Loved the beast and wished we'd kept it.
This is an example of what made VW special for many buyers.
As Car+Driver wrote at the time "A Porsche among vans".

Calling some Swiss madmen….

 

[andrew_j]

I've looked at GTIs, and aside from knowing that we sort of get the "filtered" version, and creeping prices, it's all too easy to think, why shouldn't I buy a used BMW or Mercedes instead, preferrring RWD, and knowing that they were originally built with cost constraints not as low.



There are many companies that have discovered that relying on price sensitive customers doesn't end well. Joann is the latest victim, but they, like others in their market rely heavily on discounts and coupons to attract shoppers into their stores are playing a risky game. JCPenney was in the same boat, and found that the minute those incentives ended, so did what little loyalty their customers had.

That's not to say that the additional costs in the business case can be ignored, but it's still a questionable approach to offer compromised (at least to those in the know) product to meet a cost, versus putting the best product out there, to attract quality customers, even at higher costs, or fewer sales.

To answer the rumors of a US pullout, VW did recommit, build the TN plant, and develop more tailored product for the US market. That product, the Americanized Passat, was meant to give customers what VW thought American customers wanted -- more room, mainly -- but made compromises elsewhere. IIRC, that also carried forward with the Jetta sedan (a body style more popular in the US and China).

I think part of the problem is that VW doesn't know what it wants to be, here at least. At home, it sits at the premium end of the mainstream market, so there are higher prices, but at least they come with regular updates and the latest technology.

Here, the roots also began in history as the peoples' car, but never grew to have an identity beyond that, other than as the German, or German-engineered alternative to the Japanese marques, who are arguably much stronger in the appliance-like respects.

To most, those "German" traits aren't as important (at least without a matching badge), so it doesn't capture the mass market customer, but on the other hand it gives those who do value those traits the short shrift by keeping the models imported here a step or two behind what the rest of the world gets.

You can only trade on nostagia up to a point, and even with the latest, the ID Buzz we get here is underwhelming and too expensive.

In the end, you reap what you sow.

Joanne did not peter out on coupons or loyalty. It was normal business of private equity that destroyed company.

 

[edyvw]

At that time every BMW and Mercedes diesel sold in the US had SCR(DEF). This included the BMW 335d and the Mercedes E320 CDI. The problem for VW was that they couldn't compete on price with the likes of Toyota and Honda if they installed SCR so they made the decision to lie.

Actually the problem was power and efficiency. VW 2.0CR engines were never on par with BMW and FIAT. Because of their focus on Pumpe-Duse technology, they lost 7 years to primarily BMW and FIAT. When they realized that PD would never be able to meet Euro VI NOx limits, they switched to CR. But they were behind, so how to catch up? Cheat! Not installing SCR meant better efficiency, less weight and yeah, in the end more profit with each sold unit.

 

[edyvw]

I've looked at GTIs, and aside from knowing that we sort of get the "filtered" version, and creeping prices, it's all too easy to think, why shouldn't I buy a used BMW or Mercedes instead, preferrring RWD, and knowing that they were originally built with cost constraints not as low.



There are many companies that have discovered that relying on price sensitive customers doesn't end well. Joann is the latest victim, but they, like others in their market rely heavily on discounts and coupons to attract shoppers into their stores are playing a risky game. JCPenney was in the same boat, and found that the minute those incentives ended, so did what little loyalty their customers had.

That's not to say that the additional costs in the business case can be ignored, but it's still a questionable approach to offer compromised (at least to those in the know) product to meet a cost, versus putting the best product out there, to attract quality customers, even at higher costs, or fewer sales.

To answer the rumors of a US pullout, VW did recommit, build the TN plant, and develop more tailored product for the US market. That product, the Americanized Passat, was meant to give customers what VW thought American customers wanted -- more room, mainly -- but made compromises elsewhere. IIRC, that also carried forward with the Jetta sedan (a body style more popular in the US and China).

I think part of the problem is that VW doesn't know what it wants to be, here at least. At home, it sits at the premium end of the mainstream market, so there are higher prices, but at least they come with regular updates and the latest technology.

Here, the roots also began in history as the peoples' car, but never grew to have an identity beyond that, other than as the German, or German-engineered alternative to the Japanese marques, who are arguably much stronger in the appliance-like respects.

To most, those "German" traits aren't as important (at least without a matching badge), so it doesn't capture the mass market customer, but on the other hand it gives those who do value those traits the short shrift by keeping the models imported here a step or two behind what the rest of the world gets.

You can only trade on nostagia up to a point, and even with the latest, the ID Buzz we get here is underwhelming and too expensive.

In the end, you reap what you sow.

Used BMW is always better option if one wants sports car. I always tell people that are interested to track their vehicles: get BMW if you don’t want to spend thousands to modify vehicle to perform well on track. If you want to spend, get Subaru or VW.
BMW’s comes with chassis that is ready for M models. Comes with cooling lines for brakes. Knuckles can take brakes from larger models etc. etc. And if you don’t want to do any of that, they are for the most part ready for track, which means they will perform on the street without sweat.