wemay
Site Donor 2023
In my opinion, a thoroughly well thought out view. Even after not owning a VW for a couple years now, I still enjoy his videos.
I'm curious what our VW enthusiasts and Mechanic's' views are on this.
HumbleMechanic speaks to VW's direction and enthusiast community
- Thread starter wemay
- Start date
In my opinion, a thoroughly well thought out view. Even after not owning a VW for a couple years now, I still enjoy his videos.
I'm curious what our VW enthusiasts and Mechanic's' views are on this.
Never owned a VW or a beetle before but there is quite a following on this brand. Minus some bad press over the years. Nice to have a good "mechanic" that gained a YT following that can offer a good perspective. There's a local VW only repair shop mechanic that I'm friends with. Having a strong community around like minded owners is quite appealing for many.
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He has a lot of good points. I think he's missing the mark on the other mfr communities.
C10s, Fox body, GTRs, Supras, Corvette, all have similiar communities. How did I forget Porsche people?
There are others too, he just thinks VW folks are above all other.
C10s, Fox body, GTRs, Supras, Corvette, all have similiar communities. How did I forget Porsche people?
There are others too, he just thinks VW folks are above all other.
Ironic. I just watched a video from a small engine youtuber and he shamed Honda for offering a complete, OEM carburetor assembly for a 20 year old generator, but didn't like the price. Reality is often disappointing.
I'm looking forward to watching VW commentary which promises to be informative.
Just yesterday, Mrs. Kira asked, "What cars does VW make now?" And this is mere months after ME looking at Taos and Atlas cars AND REPORTING to the Mrs.
Read Kiley's book on Volkswagen entitled, "Getting the Bugs Out". It's AA+. I've bought multiple copies for friends.
Just yesterday, Mrs. Kira asked, "What cars does VW make now?" And this is mere months after ME looking at Taos and Atlas cars AND REPORTING to the Mrs.
Read Kiley's book on Volkswagen entitled, "Getting the Bugs Out". It's AA+. I've bought multiple copies for friends.
In lieu of a TLDR, I'm guessing that a lot of what he complains about also applies in a "hold my beer" fashion with other OEMs.
Never owned a VW, but always had the impression that the brass in Wolfsburg treats VWoA and/or the U.S. market as second class as well, doing things like withholding updates and models that everyone else gets, including with the latest GTI facelift, which didn't get the engine upgrade.
Do just enough to remain in the market, but put no more effort into it, then blame the market because the hardware doesn't sell.
Am I wrong, VW folk?
Never owned a VW, but always had the impression that the brass in Wolfsburg treats VWoA and/or the U.S. market as second class as well, doing things like withholding updates and models that everyone else gets, including with the latest GTI facelift, which didn't get the engine upgrade.
Do just enough to remain in the market, but put no more effort into it, then blame the market because the hardware doesn't sell.
Am I wrong, VW folk?
Imho, US wouldn't allow many good vehicles in as that would make US made ones way less competitive.
They don't allow Mexico or Canada have their own auto makers or to have aero space industry.
They don't allow Mexico or Canada have their own auto makers or to have aero space industry.
He's pretty much right.
He is missing the guess on the other Marques, someone the other day (might have been Leno) was talking about how everyone has a Mustang story. Ford/GM/Mopsr/Harely/Ducati people are all at least as rabid as VW people.
It is a tough spot for VW, our Jetta is a really nice car, its also a good car, it was a bargain, id say so far it is well on the way to being as good as our Civic was if not better, but it is not as exciting as the 78 Scirocco (or the 2 my parents had) or the 16V GTI.
Other manufacturers have similar issues...
He is missing the guess on the other Marques, someone the other day (might have been Leno) was talking about how everyone has a Mustang story. Ford/GM/Mopsr/Harely/Ducati people are all at least as rabid as VW people.
It is a tough spot for VW, our Jetta is a really nice car, its also a good car, it was a bargain, id say so far it is well on the way to being as good as our Civic was if not better, but it is not as exciting as the 78 Scirocco (or the 2 my parents had) or the 16V GTI.
Other manufacturers have similar issues...
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Dieselgate is the core of the problem. It is $42bln issue, and it is catching up in more ways than one.
1. When Dieselgate happened, it basically happened at the right time when anti-ICE forces were at their peak. Most rich European countries jumped not only hard on VW but also on their own brands that made diesels. It was a witch hunt. EV people also fueled it because they saw, rightly so, an opportunity to jump in. Tesla would not be where it is today without VW Dieselgate. However, it had a huge impact on how VW is run. Angela Markel went after VW to change its culture etc. Yes, there is only one entity to blame there: a VW! They fell behind primarily BMW and FIAT diesel technology, and they wanted a quick fix. However, it had a tremendous impact on VW's culture. Don't forget that VW was an engineering company, not GM or FORD, where accountants made decisions and in case of VW, engineers cheated!
That led to quickly moving to all EV (DUMB decision) where the development of new ICE was stopped (last year restarted, but they lost numerous years), focusing only on SUV's etc.
2. Cutting cost! There is far more to it than what the Humble mechanic is saying. Does anyone remember that massive scandal between VW and the biggest VW supplier from Bosnia, PREVENT, that led to things like assassinations etc? They tried to stifle suppliers and PREVENT, the owner of numerous suppliers in Germany did not play the game, and all led to some seriously shady stuff. I am just giving this as an example of how ridiculous things were/are. They moved toward that hepatic disaster that is still plaguing some vehicles. Then, they introduced large screens while their core customer base is all about driving and enjoying that process of going from point A to point B. Why? Because a large screen is far cheaper than 10 buttons, one has to integrate into the system.
3. They stiffled both Audi and VW. Forewer VW protected at the US market Audi from, well, VW. Audi was the sacred cow, and there had to be the distinction between the two brands, especially after Piech left as CEO in 2002. Humble Mechanic talks about Passat B5.5. I moved to the US in August 2005 and worked as a test driver for a car magazine and an oil company a few years before coming to US, after jobs at NATO and OSCE. But obviously, I always was involved in car "stuff," hill climbs etc. I remember when the Passat B5 entered the market in Europe in 1995. Holy moly! What an earthquake it was in the segment where VW Passat, Opel Vectra and Ford Sierra and then from 1994 Mondeo, Peugeot 405, Renault 21 etc. were competing. But it was this VW/Opel/Ford competition. FWD, transverse engines, nothing unusual, though Passat was always a bit bigger. But B5 hits the market and it has double wishbone in. front, longitudinal engine, Torsen AWD, and new, uber popular TDI engines. I remember Auto Motor und Sport on the front page had title: VW raising prices 1000DM (DM: Deutsche Mark) to slow down demand. I remember Opel offering abysmal 1.7TD engine in new Vectra B (I owned one with 2.0 16V engine) and FORD 1.8TD engine. I mean, it was like night and day difference in technology. VW absolutely obliterated the competition. They had a 1.8-liter Turbo engine. People are talking about downsizing here now. VW was doing that in 1995. I owned one here, B5.5, 1.8T. It was a remarkable vehicle for its class.
However, that happened during Piech. After he left, it was obvious that VW managament wanted to "dial down," VW, to make a distinction between Audi and VW. Passat B6 had a transverse engine, and Torsen is gone, welcome Haldex. Diesels were far from setting standards. BMW and FIAT were ruling the diesel market in Europe, and VW figured they bet wrong on Pumpe-Duse technology (and it led to Dieselgate). But that shift to "cheapen" VW continued into 2014, and with Dieselgate, it transferred to Audi. Who talks about Audi today? It is almost like Audi does not exist. They are in no way competition to BMW or Mercedes as they once were. Still, managers at VW want to keep VW below Audi, although Audi lost its way.
4. So, why am I saying this about Audi? Atlas! We can all miss days of GTI and manuals, but let's be honest: it is all about SUVs if you want to make money. And you must make money if you want to maintain pet projects like GTI, R, manuals etc. So, SUV's are here to stay. So, what is going on with Tiguan? Horribly latergic 2.0T that is gutted to 182hp. Never offered with GTI EA888 to bring it closer to enthusiasts.The firstt time I drovea second-generation Tiguan, I was thinking, "how much money would they have to pay me for my 1st generation Tiguan to move to 2nd generation?" And then, one of the most important things: the EU has a hybrid, but the US does not. I would really like to meet that genius who made the decision to withhold the hybrid from the US market.
Atlas is a bit better, but as a former owner of Atlas, it is a hugely missed opportunity. They absolutely nailed down the most important thing in that segment: practicality. But they offered old VR6 that is super thirsty, 2.0T which is just OK when it comes to power, and they dialed in suspension that makes any VW enthusiasts absolutely sick to the stomach. While others complained about cheap interior materials, I thought they fit the purpose of the vehicle. What I did not appreciate were the cheaper brakes that reminded me of Toyota and Honda. Very little carbon, tendency to vibrate. Inadequate suspension that likes to "double dip," and, of course, that windshield issue that VW really never addressed.
If they offered engines they did in China, 3.0 VR6 turbo, or even 5cyl from Audi, they would distinguish themselves from others. If they offered better suspension and more "off road" worthy vehicles, they would attract enthusiasts. Look at Honda Pilot TrailSPort. They basically copied Atlas's interior but offered an absolute hit on the market, TrailSPort. Almost all Pilots I see are TrailSport here in CO.
However, even more, they are supposed to base Atlas on Q7. They supposed to offer "new Passat B5,"just as SUV. Q7 is an absolute failed SUV. I cannot remember when was the last time I have seen one. If they offered a cheaper version of Q7 with VW badge, and the practicality of Atlas that they actually offered, VW would be in a different position. But they did not, so they have to cut manuals, they have to shovel all functions to the screen, which is poorly executed, and then bad sales, because people don't want to buy "just another vehicle," leads to things like cutting training centers, etc.
The bottom line is that Dieselgate made VW into GM, Ford, and Chrysler from those worst days. A bunch of accountants are running the show today at VW. They could still fix things. It could be done. But they have to be bold. And they are not.
1. When Dieselgate happened, it basically happened at the right time when anti-ICE forces were at their peak. Most rich European countries jumped not only hard on VW but also on their own brands that made diesels. It was a witch hunt. EV people also fueled it because they saw, rightly so, an opportunity to jump in. Tesla would not be where it is today without VW Dieselgate. However, it had a huge impact on how VW is run. Angela Markel went after VW to change its culture etc. Yes, there is only one entity to blame there: a VW! They fell behind primarily BMW and FIAT diesel technology, and they wanted a quick fix. However, it had a tremendous impact on VW's culture. Don't forget that VW was an engineering company, not GM or FORD, where accountants made decisions and in case of VW, engineers cheated!
That led to quickly moving to all EV (DUMB decision) where the development of new ICE was stopped (last year restarted, but they lost numerous years), focusing only on SUV's etc.
2. Cutting cost! There is far more to it than what the Humble mechanic is saying. Does anyone remember that massive scandal between VW and the biggest VW supplier from Bosnia, PREVENT, that led to things like assassinations etc? They tried to stifle suppliers and PREVENT, the owner of numerous suppliers in Germany did not play the game, and all led to some seriously shady stuff. I am just giving this as an example of how ridiculous things were/are. They moved toward that hepatic disaster that is still plaguing some vehicles. Then, they introduced large screens while their core customer base is all about driving and enjoying that process of going from point A to point B. Why? Because a large screen is far cheaper than 10 buttons, one has to integrate into the system.
3. They stiffled both Audi and VW. Forewer VW protected at the US market Audi from, well, VW. Audi was the sacred cow, and there had to be the distinction between the two brands, especially after Piech left as CEO in 2002. Humble Mechanic talks about Passat B5.5. I moved to the US in August 2005 and worked as a test driver for a car magazine and an oil company a few years before coming to US, after jobs at NATO and OSCE. But obviously, I always was involved in car "stuff," hill climbs etc. I remember when the Passat B5 entered the market in Europe in 1995. Holy moly! What an earthquake it was in the segment where VW Passat, Opel Vectra and Ford Sierra and then from 1994 Mondeo, Peugeot 405, Renault 21 etc. were competing. But it was this VW/Opel/Ford competition. FWD, transverse engines, nothing unusual, though Passat was always a bit bigger. But B5 hits the market and it has double wishbone in. front, longitudinal engine, Torsen AWD, and new, uber popular TDI engines. I remember Auto Motor und Sport on the front page had title: VW raising prices 1000DM (DM: Deutsche Mark) to slow down demand. I remember Opel offering abysmal 1.7TD engine in new Vectra B (I owned one with 2.0 16V engine) and FORD 1.8TD engine. I mean, it was like night and day difference in technology. VW absolutely obliterated the competition. They had a 1.8-liter Turbo engine. People are talking about downsizing here now. VW was doing that in 1995. I owned one here, B5.5, 1.8T. It was a remarkable vehicle for its class.
However, that happened during Piech. After he left, it was obvious that VW managament wanted to "dial down," VW, to make a distinction between Audi and VW. Passat B6 had a transverse engine, and Torsen is gone, welcome Haldex. Diesels were far from setting standards. BMW and FIAT were ruling the diesel market in Europe, and VW figured they bet wrong on Pumpe-Duse technology (and it led to Dieselgate). But that shift to "cheapen" VW continued into 2014, and with Dieselgate, it transferred to Audi. Who talks about Audi today? It is almost like Audi does not exist. They are in no way competition to BMW or Mercedes as they once were. Still, managers at VW want to keep VW below Audi, although Audi lost its way.
4. So, why am I saying this about Audi? Atlas! We can all miss days of GTI and manuals, but let's be honest: it is all about SUVs if you want to make money. And you must make money if you want to maintain pet projects like GTI, R, manuals etc. So, SUV's are here to stay. So, what is going on with Tiguan? Horribly latergic 2.0T that is gutted to 182hp. Never offered with GTI EA888 to bring it closer to enthusiasts.The firstt time I drovea second-generation Tiguan, I was thinking, "how much money would they have to pay me for my 1st generation Tiguan to move to 2nd generation?" And then, one of the most important things: the EU has a hybrid, but the US does not. I would really like to meet that genius who made the decision to withhold the hybrid from the US market.
Atlas is a bit better, but as a former owner of Atlas, it is a hugely missed opportunity. They absolutely nailed down the most important thing in that segment: practicality. But they offered old VR6 that is super thirsty, 2.0T which is just OK when it comes to power, and they dialed in suspension that makes any VW enthusiasts absolutely sick to the stomach. While others complained about cheap interior materials, I thought they fit the purpose of the vehicle. What I did not appreciate were the cheaper brakes that reminded me of Toyota and Honda. Very little carbon, tendency to vibrate. Inadequate suspension that likes to "double dip," and, of course, that windshield issue that VW really never addressed.
If they offered engines they did in China, 3.0 VR6 turbo, or even 5cyl from Audi, they would distinguish themselves from others. If they offered better suspension and more "off road" worthy vehicles, they would attract enthusiasts. Look at Honda Pilot TrailSPort. They basically copied Atlas's interior but offered an absolute hit on the market, TrailSPort. Almost all Pilots I see are TrailSport here in CO.
However, even more, they are supposed to base Atlas on Q7. They supposed to offer "new Passat B5,"just as SUV. Q7 is an absolute failed SUV. I cannot remember when was the last time I have seen one. If they offered a cheaper version of Q7 with VW badge, and the practicality of Atlas that they actually offered, VW would be in a different position. But they did not, so they have to cut manuals, they have to shovel all functions to the screen, which is poorly executed, and then bad sales, because people don't want to buy "just another vehicle," leads to things like cutting training centers, etc.
The bottom line is that Dieselgate made VW into GM, Ford, and Chrysler from those worst days. A bunch of accountants are running the show today at VW. They could still fix things. It could be done. But they have to be bold. And they are not.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Really nothing new for VW. This happen way before dieselgate in Europe.
Just surprised they have started to do this in the US.
They getting away with this in Europe since there's many companies who makes parts for VW cars. Easy to order, many alternatives etc.
Just surprised they have started to do this in the US.
They getting away with this in Europe since there's many companies who makes parts for VW cars. Easy to order, many alternatives etc.
Had to watch the video before I made a comment. Charles has definately hit the nail on the head when it comes to VW corporate and the VW enthusiast world. I am part of the latter and really like being here. There is something ultimately satisfying about fixing a 15 year old car based on some homemade enginuity, tenacity, parts diagrams, and community input. It brings you closer to the machine and therefore, that rabid relationship with the "brand" that you ALWAYS will look to another VW when it comes time to get another car. VW corporate knows this, but has taken it for granted for so long, especially the US market, that it has grown the chasm to Grand Canyon proportions. And, some day, the enthusiasts will die out, and not have anything to be enthusiastic about. They will no longer want to put effort into it and not recommend VWs to the masses that look to them for a recommendation. And all that will be left is another disposable car company that could have been something better.
Volkswagen, which is failing in car sales, hopes for a new impulse from the military industry. Maybe they will start to produce military vehicles again?
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
1. Yes.
2. Tesla falling off the cliff is helping them big time.
IMO buyers in the VW segment are very price sensitive so VW doesn't give the US market the good stuff. Ex, Dual PFI/DI
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
The question is not whether buyers are price sensitive. But whether they can get away with it. They want to believe they can. Toyota is prime example of that too.
I think brand loayalty will be tested as cars become more like iphones, the long term viability of current cars is questionable - IMO. Whether it's from battery costs, parts availability, or places that will service them to the same level as ICE vehicles, I think they are less desirable.
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I have quite a bit of experience with the excellent honda small engines. In most cases, the clogged up carbs are in need of cleaning and new bits and pieces from a rebuild kit, which don't cost much. The flood of Chinese parts has created a situation where even service centers will replace the entire carb, rather than rebuild. Considering the time involved, that is probably the most efficient way to go. Buying a branded Honda carb is a great move, a rebuilt Honda carb, using OEM parts will be as good or even better than new. Chinese replacement carbs are so cheap that they really only have to last a while. It costs Honda plenty in first world labor to stock ancient parts, and to produce them. The Humble Mechanic makes some solid points. It's hard to get excited about the grumbling youtuber, though.
Humble Mechanic mentions how everyone has a Volkswagen story. Here are two of mine.
1) My mother had a 1962 Bug. In the mid '60s (I was 12-ish) when my father was away on a business trip my mother used to let me pull her Bug in and out of the garage. Very quickly I learned that if I put water on the concrete garage floor I could pop the clutch spin the rear tires when I backed out. Whenever my father was gone I used to do this over and over again, over and over again.
2) I took my first solo drive in my mother's '62. My "solo drive" was in reality a joy ride. This was 1967 and I was only 14 years old. My mother was in the hospital for a week. My Dad visited her every evening when he got home from work. Mom's car keys were sitting on the counter and I had been eyeing them all week. One night Dad went to visit Mom but I decided not to go. I called a close friend to join me on my "solo". It was a dark, rainy night. This was literally the first time I had ever driven a car on the street. But instead of a slow, stealthy drive I was speeding through the wet neighborhood streets. It was great fun and I was a natural with car control and was tossing the swing axle machine at opposite lock, sliding sideways on the wet corners. Great fun until I finally spun out, sliding up someone's driveway and onto on their front yard, ending up about 15 feet in front of their front door! Thankfully I didn't hit anything. At that point my friend and I called it a night and motored back home.
Scott
1) My mother had a 1962 Bug. In the mid '60s (I was 12-ish) when my father was away on a business trip my mother used to let me pull her Bug in and out of the garage. Very quickly I learned that if I put water on the concrete garage floor I could pop the clutch spin the rear tires when I backed out. Whenever my father was gone I used to do this over and over again, over and over again.
2) I took my first solo drive in my mother's '62. My "solo drive" was in reality a joy ride. This was 1967 and I was only 14 years old. My mother was in the hospital for a week. My Dad visited her every evening when he got home from work. Mom's car keys were sitting on the counter and I had been eyeing them all week. One night Dad went to visit Mom but I decided not to go. I called a close friend to join me on my "solo". It was a dark, rainy night. This was literally the first time I had ever driven a car on the street. But instead of a slow, stealthy drive I was speeding through the wet neighborhood streets. It was great fun and I was a natural with car control and was tossing the swing axle machine at opposite lock, sliding sideways on the wet corners. Great fun until I finally spun out, sliding up someone's driveway and onto on their front yard, ending up about 15 feet in front of their front door! Thankfully I didn't hit anything. At that point my friend and I called it a night and motored back home.
Scott
