HTHS Measurement Standards Question

[buster]

Thanks. At what % though is enough POE, to provide maximum performance? Despite POE's being superior to many ways to PAO's, PAO based synthetics are usually used in conjunction with esters, such as POE's to raise the performance level along with additives.

What is strange to me is, in automobile applications, it seems majority PAO based oils perform better than any majority ester based based oils.

 

[BerndV]

Originally Posted By: buster
What is strange to me is, in automobile applications, it seems majority PAO based oils perform better than any majority ester based based oils.
You could draw that conclusion if it is based on comparative UOA's posted on this site. However, I have seen absolutely no conclusive evidence that UOA's are a reliable tool for judging the superiority of any particular oil. Roy Howell, who you have quoted on other threads regarding this exact topic, has addressed this more persuasively than I could.

 

[sprintman]

I never forget reading the article from TRACO who supplied every engine to a major U.S race series. Jones from TRACO said they could tell which oil each team had used and while some were really shot those using Redline were barely worn. Says a lot that

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: BerndV
Originally Posted By: buster
What is strange to me is, in automobile applications, it seems majority PAO based oils perform better than any majority ester based based oils.
You could draw that conclusion if it is based on comparative UOA's posted on this site. However, I have seen absolutely no conclusive evidence that UOA's are a reliable tool for judging the superiority of any particular oil. Roy Howell, who you have quoted on other threads regarding this exact topic, has addressed this more persuasively than I could.


True. I guess it depends on whether you agree with Howell's comments. There are studies that show spectographic analysis to be very accurate at measuring wear.

sprintman, interesting thanks.

 

[JAG]

Originally Posted By: buster
There are studies that show spectographic analysis to be very accurate at measuring wear.
There are also studies that show spectographic analysis to NOT be accurate at measuring wear. Both statements are true. Combined, it means that its accuracy is dependent on various factors.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: JAG
Originally Posted By: buster
There are studies that show spectographic analysis to be very accurate at measuring wear.
There are also studies that show spectographic analysis to NOT be accurate at measuring wear. Both statements are true. Combined, it means that its accuracy is dependent on various factors.


Very true. Makes it difficult doesn't it?

 

[JAG]

Yes, but that's where magnets can provide very helpful information about iron/steel wear. They will catch particles too big to be accurately detected by spectrographic analysis.

 

[BerndV]

Originally Posted By: JAG
Originally Posted By: buster
There are studies that show spectographic analysis to be very accurate at measuring wear.
There are also studies that show spectographic analysis to NOT be accurate at measuring wear. Both statements are true. Combined, it means that its accuracy is dependent on various factors.
What all of this indicates is that the variables that would have to be held constant in order to rely on UOA's for oil comparisons are almost never constant. Engine wear analysis via disassembly, inspection, and measurement has anecdotally shown both M1 and Redline to be outstanding products despite inconsistent BITOG UOA reports.

 

[buster]

Quote:
Engine wear analysis via disassembly, inspection, and measurement has anecdotally shown both M1 and Redline to be outstanding products despite inconsistent BITOG UOA reports.


True.