HPL Engine cleaner / 2015 Volvo XC60 high oil consumption progress report

[RYDMOTO]

Hey all.
My takeaway from all this and for anybody who wants to embark on a oil program the free up your rings and or piston drain holes,
is to have the heads cleaned first. Use whichever method will work best for you. The reason I say this is that a piece of carbon broke
off in #4 cylinder and burned #4 exhaust valve. This is a known issue by Volvo North America and they refuse to take responsibility
for the issue that caused the burned exhaust valve to begin with which is the piston valve issue.

I will fill you all in later that Volvo North America agreed to diagnose the vehicle which Volvo of Lisle diagnosed (to the tune of $800.00) and from my point of view, that technician was a recent UTI graduate or was being told what to say on his diagnosis. For those who don't know how engines work, they take it hook line and sinker. I will explain that later after work.

Now for the heart warming "goodwill" repair! Volvo of Lisle offered to replace with a new engine for $25,000!
Upon my research, A Volvo factory refurbished engine is $8300 and according to ALLDATA, aproximatley15 hours labor.
That put the total cost in the neighborhood of $12,500. Volvo was willing to split the bill 50-50 which according to my math,
we would being paying for the whole thing and Volvo making a $12k profit.

I will write out the techs diagnosis after work. Pathetic is too kind of a word to describe it.

 

[Astro14]

Wait - the engine just blew? Oh, man, I am so sorry.

What a tale, start to finish. So disappointing.

 

[RYDMOTO]

No, they engine did not blow. I asked for information on the techs finding that concluded it need a new engine. Volvo does not like to be questioned in a polite manor so I found out. The tech did NOT disassemble the engine to check for tolerances etc.
It makes sense to replace the whole engine and not risk any further problems. But not at $25k
The volvo of lisle service unadvisor mentioned the they replaced piston and rings only to have the car owner return 80 miles later with a burnt valve.Volvo North America refused to repair the head.

I am thinking I should not take any if my cars there for repairs.

 

[Astro14]

No, they engine did not blow. I asked for information on the techs finding that concluded it need a new engine. Volvo does not like to be questioned in a polite manor so I found out. The tech did NOT disassemble the engine to check for tolerances etc.
It makes sense to replace the whole engine and not risk any further problems. But not at $25k
The volvo of lisle service unadvisor mentioned the they replaced piston and rings only to have the car owner return 80 miles later with a burnt valve.Volvo North America refused to repair the head.

I am thinking I should not take any if my cars there for repairs.

I read your post. Burned valve. Solution from the dealer, and you, was a new engine.

So, blown, burned valve, whatever semantics you like, this engine needs to come out. It needs rings and head work, at a minimum.

It is running on three cylinders and uses oil, from your initial report.

That may not be “blown” in your book , but it is in mine.

I look forward to the full report.

 

[RAVL]

Can the mechanic who advised you on the “hot spot” issue give you advice on a rational repair route? Or is it just time to dump it and move on?

Good luck in any event. Sorry to hear of all these issues.

 

[RYDMOTO]

I read your post. Burned valve. Solution from the dealer, and you, was a new engine.

So, blown, burned valve, whatever semantics you like, this engine needs to come out. It needs rings and head work, at a minimum.

It is running on three cylinders and uses oil, from your initial report.

That may not be “blown” in your book , but it is in mine.

I look forward to the full report.

Hey ASTRO
I have never been one to throw the word semantics around. So this is not about semantics but about accuracy in describing so others may be educated as accurate as I can enable them. For reference a blown engine is used to describe a catastrophic failure of some sort. Thus particular event is due to Volvo specifying the wrong piston rings and pistons with too small of oil drain holes resulting in excessive oil consumption which in turn was combusted in the cylinder head which in turn caused heavy carbon build up or what other may define as " coking". If a chunk of carbon breaks off and you are lucky enough for that chunk to vacate the cylinder untouched by the closing exhaust valve, consider yourself lucky. Or you never knew it to begin with.
So my friend, don't accuse me of semantics but please accuse me of being accurate.
Every auto repair shop strives to not have callbacks as it is their time and money lost.
That is why in this case it is wiser to replace with a new factory rebuilt rather than replace the piston, rings and head and miss a tightened bolt and so on and risk a faulty repair and possibly several returns

 

[Astro14]

Hey ASTRO
I have never been one to throw the word semantics around. So this is not about semantics but about accuracy in describing so others may be educated as accurate as I can enable them. For reference a blown engine is used to describe a catastrophic failure of some sort. Thus particular event is due to Volvo specifying the wrong piston rings and pistons with too small of oil drain holes resulting in excessive oil consumption which in turn was combusted in the cylinder head which in turn caused heavy carbon build up or what other may define as " coking". If a chunk of carbon breaks off and you are lucky enough for that chunk to vacate the cylinder untouched by the closing exhaust valve, consider yourself lucky. Or you never knew it to begin with.
So my friend, don't accuse me of semantics but please accuse me of being accurate.
Every auto repair shop strives to not have callbacks as it is their time and money lost.
That is why in this case it is wiser to replace with a new factory rebuilt rather than replace the piston, rings and head and miss a tightened bolt and so on and risk a faulty repair and possibly several returns

Fair enough.

Perhaps, instead of “blown”, I should have said, “toast”, or “done for”, or any of dozens of other words that mean it is no longer worth repairing. And because you don’t like my choice of words, you’re getting irritated with me - that is in fact - a semantic point.

Big point is, though, you need a new engine, after all the discussion, work and testing, that took place in this thread.

And that is unfortunate.

 

[RYDMOTO]

Fair enough.

Perhaps, instead of “blown”, I should have said, “toast”, or “done for”, or any of dozens of other words that mean it is no longer worth repairing. And because you don’t like my choice of words, you’re getting irritated with me - that is in fact - a semantic point.

Big point is, though, you need a new engine, after all the discussion, work and testing, that took place in this thread.

And that is unfortunate.

Hey ASTRO
I admit I am enjoying our debate and I will add that I was not in the least bit irrated. So, your assumption falls under the word judgement.I would ask you if you were irritated and projected your annoyance upon me. My intention was solely based on accuracy for future readers who may be confronting simular engine issues.After all, isn't that why we are here?
Now all that be said, had you said my engine in kerputt, we would not be having this discussion. I admit the word kerputt has always hit my funnybone and still does.

What is very clear to me is your compassionate response in your last paragraph of which was very much needed as you will see as I finish my narrative.
( I confess I spent some time reading up on the word semantics on a much deeper level which is quite fascinating and has depth in itself)
Salute to a good debate!

 

[Four Rings]

Hey all.
My takeaway from all this and for anybody who wants to embark on a oil program the free up your rings and or piston drain holes,
is to have the heads cleaned first. Use whichever method will work best for you. The reason I say this is that a piece of carbon broke
off in #4 cylinder and burned #4 exhaust valve. This is a known issue by Volvo North America and they refuse to take responsibility
for the issue that caused the burned exhaust valve to begin with which is the piston valve issue.

I will fill you all in later that Volvo North America agreed to diagnose the vehicle which Volvo of Lisle diagnosed (to the tune of $800.00) and from my point of view, that technician was a recent UTI graduate or was being told what to say on his diagnosis. For those who don't know how engines work, they take it hook line and sinker. I will explain that later after work.

Now for the heart warming "goodwill" repair! Volvo of Lisle offered to replace with a new engine for $25,000!
Upon my research, A Volvo factory refurbished engine is $8300 and according to ALLDATA, aproximatley15 hours labor.
That put the total cost in the neighborhood of $12,500. Volvo was willing to split the bill 50-50 which according to my math,
we would being paying for the whole thing and Volvo making a $12k profit.

I will write out the techs diagnosis after work. Pathetic is too kind of a word to describe it.

Note to self: never buy a Volvo.

 

[Astro14]

Hey ASTRO
I admit I am enjoying our debate and I will add that I was not in the least bit irrated. So, your assumption falls under the word judgement.I would ask you if you were irritated and projected your annoyance upon me. My intention was solely based on accuracy for future readers who may be confronting simular engine issues.After all, isn't that why we are here?
Now all that be said, had you said my engine in kerputt, we would not be having this discussion. I admit the word kerputt has always hit my funnybone and still does.

What is very clear to me is your compassionate response in your last paragraph of which was very much needed as you will see as I finish my narrative.
( I confess I spent some time reading up on the word semantics on a much deeper level which is quite fascinating and has depth in itself)
Salute to a good debate!

I meant to convey sympathy, truly. That was my intent.

You and I have devoted quite a bit of time to talking about this car and its challenges - I was hoping to see some positive progress in the oil consumption battle - and now this burnt valve, which condemns the engine, is just a kick in the teeth. Particularly after all you have been through. I feel like I've been through a bit of it, vicariously, as well, so, I actually do "feel your pain."

I was going to say, "Kaput", I'll definitely use that next time!

Cheers,
Astro

 

[Astro14]

Note to self: never buy a Volvo

Maybe…

My wife's V70XC has over 300,000 miles on it. Runs great. Looks great. That’s it below.

My youngest daughter's XC90 has 248,000 miles on it. Runs great. Looks great.

That’s it last week

My oldest daughter's V70 has 230,000 miles on it. Runs great. Looks great

That one leads a hard life of short trips to the hospital at all hours. Day in and day out, severe short trips and she is always in a hurry.

My son's 2001 Volvo has only 140,000 miles on it. Runs great. Looks great.

My 2004 Volvo has nearly 150,000 miles on it. Runs great. Looks great.

So, in a sample size of five, they're durable, reliable, outstanding cars.

Yeah, there is a trend - just not the one you think there is.

 

[RYDMOTO]

I meant to convey sympathy, truly. That was my intent.

You and I have devoted quite a bit of time to talking about this car and its challenges - I was hoping to see some positive progress in the oil consumption battle - and now this burnt valve, which condemns the engine, is just a kick in the teeth. Particularly after all you have been through. I feel like I've been through a bit of it, vicariously, as well, so, I actually do "feel your pain."

I was going to say, "Kaput", I'll definitely use that next time!

Cheers,
Astro

Hi Astro,
I truly received your sympathy - absolutley 100%
It is also nice to hear that you considered yourself part of this journey in which you were indeed.
I think at times we take for granted input from well informed people who are actually a family in it's own right.
We celebrate victories and grieve outcomes that did not go our way. It's so rare these days within our society.
Speaking of getting kicked in the gut, I received notice that Volvo North America
pulled their "goodwill" replacement engine because I explained that there was a wrong diagnosis that the engine needed a new ECM due to misfires stored in the ECU in which I simply explained that the 4 spark plugs were less than hand tight and that likely caused the misfires.
I added that there should be a complaint filed against Volvo of Lisle so they can find out if they have a disgruntled mechanic
or if they are purposely causing problems for future repairs. I would have thought they would have been thankful but claimed due to my exposing the problem Volvo pulled the goodwill repair.. I am still in shock Volvo would do such a thing. The other kicker is Volvo of Lisle wanted to charge $25k to replace the engine and Volvo would split the price. So I looked online -Volvo parts and a Volvo factory reconditioned engine is $8300.00 and ALLDATA shows 15 hours labor to change out which would be $4k in labor.That comes out to approx $13k. So, the bill is $25k,split the cost-we pay $12k and Volvo makes $12k profit. Ohh please please please sign me up for this goodwill offer!!! The naive take it hook line and sinker. I do my research.Thanks for letting me vent as I am feeling like I got kicked in the gut and I am reeling.

 

[RYDMOTO]

Maybe…

My wife's V70XC has over 300,000 miles on it. Runs great. Looks great. That’s it below.

View attachment 228275
My youngest daughter's XC90 has 248,000 miles on it. Runs great. Looks great.
View attachment 228276
That’s it last week

My oldest daughter's V70 has 230,000 miles on it. Runs great. Looks great

That one leads a hard life of short trips to the hospital at all hours. Day in and day out, severe short trips and she is always in a hurry.

My son's 2001 Volvo has only 140,000 miles on it. Runs great. Looks great.

My 2004 Volvo has nearly 150,000 miles on it. Runs great. Looks great.

So, in a sample size of five, they're durable, reliable, outstanding cars.

Yeah, there is a trend - just not the one you think there is.

I am with you there! I have owned 7 Volvos and currently own an 2009 S60T5 and has been trouble free and I own a 2020 S60T6R and would still buy one again. I will post pictures. I get compliments on both of them Especially the Bursting Blue color. There is not a blue color like that one. EVERY manufacturer has made mistakes on piston and rings and such and they do there best.

 

[Astro14]

Hi Astro,
I truly received your sympathy - absolutley 100%
It is also nice to hear that you considered yourself part of this journey in which you were indeed.
I think at times we take for granted input from well informed people who are actually a family in it's own right.
We celebrate victories and grieve outcomes that did not go our way. It's so rare these days within our society.
Speaking of getting kicked in the teeth I received a text from a family member that I ""f**cked things up" and Volvo North America
pulled their "goodwill" replacement engine because I explained the wrong diagnosis that the engine needed a new ECM due to
misfires stored in which I simply explained that the 4 spark plugs were less than hand tight and that likely caused the misfires.
I added that there should be a complaint filed against Volvo of Lisle so they can find out if they have a disgruntled mechanic
or if they are purposely causing problems for future repairs. I would have thought they would have been thankful but claimed due to my exposing the problem Volvo pulled the goodwill repair. Thats what I get for all the hours spent ordering parts,oil,filters,crawling under the vehicle more times than I can count and to receive such a text. I am still in shock Volvo would do such a thing and a family member would blame me on top of it. The other kicker is Volvo of Lisle wanted to charge $25k to replace the engine and Volvo would split the price. So I looked online -Volvo parts and a Volvo factory reconditioned engine is $8300.00 and ALLDATA shows 15 hours labor to change out which would be $4k in labor.That comes out to approx $13k. So, the bill is $25k,split the cost-we pay $12k and Volvo makes $12k profit. Ohh please please please sign me up for this goodwill offer!!! The naive take it hook line and sinker. I do my research.Thanks for letting me vent as I am feeling like I got kicked in the gut and I am reeling.

We need to find you a good independent Volvo mechanic. I used to have one in Denver, and there is one in Salt Lake City. Al’s Volvo.

I was unhappy with the some of the work done at MacDonald Volvo in Denver, and if you read through this thread, it’s a quite a story. In fairness, they repaired the no start condition, they discovered and fixed a rear axle problem, and they did correctly repair the suspension fault, but I was unhappy with how they repaired the slight leak in the oil sump.

In the end, they ponied up, and made an offer with which I was happy - they would pay for UOA on the engine, and repair the engine if the UOA showed problems. Thanks to the generous efforts of our very own Wayne Willson, and a couple of early, very frequent, oil changes, I think we avoided problems.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...d-abrasive-wheel-to-clean-engine-sump.374594/

I last took the R skiing in Utah this spring. It ran great, and it really is a wonderful car. I haven’t been back out to Denver since, and I hear the car is doing well, but my buddy doesn’t like driving it, because he had an accident with it last year. I paid for the $4000 worth of bodywork out of pocket, because I didn’t want to involve insurance, and I wasn’t about to let him cover the cost. He’s a retired school teacher. He can’t afford that.

I bought the R from a guy in Crete, Illinois. I can look through the records, and see who he used to service the car, if that is of interest to you.

 

[Four Rings]

Maybe…

My wife's V70XC has over 300,000 miles on it. Runs great. Looks great. That’s it below.

View attachment 228275
My youngest daughter's XC90 has 248,000 miles on it. Runs great. Looks great.
View attachment 228276
That’s it last week

My oldest daughter's V70 has 230,000 miles on it. Runs great. Looks great

That one leads a hard life of short trips to the hospital at all hours. Day in and day out, severe short trips and she is always in a hurry.

My son's 2001 Volvo has only 140,000 miles on it. Runs great. Looks great.

My 2004 Volvo has nearly 150,000 miles on it. Runs great. Looks great.

So, in a sample size of five, they're durable, reliable, outstanding cars.

Yeah, there is a trend - just not the one you think there is.

Not the car(s); it’s the avarice, poor service and lack of support described in this thread, from a premium brand that begets my note. How a dealer and manufacturer recover when the target is missed is telling.

 

[Astro14]

Not the car(s); it’s the avarice, poor service and lack of support described in this thread, from a premium brand that begets my note. How a dealer and manufacturer recover when the target is missed is telling.

I understand. I have had my own issues with Volvo dealers.

Every single person in my family drives a Volvo, if that wasn’t obvious from my post. In my signature are the 2002 V70 T5 that my oldest drives. It was once my daily driver and I went through it nose to tail before giving it to her 8 years ago. There is the 2001 V70 T5 that I bought, and completely rebuilt (suspension, brakes, engine work, cooling system, exhaust upgrades, and more), before giving it to my son 5 years ago as a college graduation present. My daughter’s XC90 got a similar rebuild last year, before I gave it to her as she started med school. My wife’s V70 XC has been maintained to a high standard. Everything works as it should. There is not one “discrepancy” in the car’s operation. My R is the same. Not one discrepancy. Everything works like it did when the car was new.

There are good reasons why I bought these particular cars for my kids and wife:

• They are safe
• They are practical (wagon/SUV)
• They are fun to drive (don’t laugh, the R in particular is great, but the T5s are quick)
• I got them inexpensively
• I can do everything on them for maintenance
• The total cost of ownership is quite low.

My advice to people shopping for a high-end car, either Volvo, or Mercedes, and you can see from my signature that I own both, is to either:

1. Lease it.
2. Buy it new and trade it in in 10 years.

The combination of inept dealer mechanics, as well as dwindling parts support once a car hits 10 years, means that my method of buy them used and drive them forever, evidenced above, is no longer viable. Even though I have VIDA running on a dedicated laptop for Volvos.

It certainly is not viable for someone who relies on other people to turn the wrenches. My S class Mercedes, a twin turbo V-12, for example, would bankrupt someone in a couple of years, if they had to pay the dealer to fix it.

So, lease it, or buy it new and trade it before problems begin to crop up.

We have driven, and plan to buy, a plug-in hybrid XC90. Really a great car. But we will buy it new, and we likely won’t keep it like we have the fleet of Volvos we have now..