HP vs DELL vs MAC - my recent experience

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Mystic
I do more than that including working on photos, videos, and printing photo quality photographs.

I understand your point about photo editing, but Linux handles video editing extremely well, and printing proper photographs is a breeze.


http://www.darktable.org/

 

[Mystic]

I already know about darktable. I am not impressed. I will stay with Photoshop, Lightroom, Apple Aperture, and the software I use to create videos.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Macs do occasionally have problems. I was lucky that I had an extended warranty on my eMac when the monitor went out. A Mac can have a problem like any other computer. If a person buys a Mac and has any problems in that first year be sure to get repairs done before the one year is up. An extended warranty is expensive but Macs are expensive and if anything ever goes wrong on a Mac and you have an extended warranty you are going to be very thankful. Forget trying to repair some Macs by yourself. A Windows computer can be repaired possibly by yourself, often just by replacing a component.


Desktops or laptops? Most unreliable thing is the HDD. I swapped mine in a mac laptop for an SSD and it was easy. May do it on my wife's as well.

And Apple took her laptop, upgraded to 10.9 totally free, far out of warranty. They did well by my brother for his (still working) 8 year old original 13" MBP.

 

[Mystic]

Back in the days when Apple was selling eMacs I had a monitor go out. The eMac was an all-in-one computer. Kind of like the iMac. I did have an extended warranty which saved me because the problem developed after one year of ownership. I have had a few problems on a few Apple Computers. Some Macs were very difficult to work on and had to be taken to an Apple Store for work.

One good thing about Windows computers is that if something goes wrong a person might be able to fix it themselves. Or get it fixed at a local computer shop.

If Apple Computers had somewhat better software and hardware compatibility I might be willing to go just with Apple Computers and stop using Windows. But every time Apple comes out with a new operating system my printer or scanner might not work for a while.

I would say that Mac OS X is a better operating system than Windows. But since Microsoft has come out with Windows 7 Windows is pretty good. Start8 software makes Windows 8/8.1 useable.

 

[JHZR2]

I'd venture to guess that a windows box with an integrated CRT would be very difficult to work on too. Nobody is going to just offer a spare at newegg.

Things are a little better with LEDs, but it was like pulling teeth to get a replacement backlight for my wife's dell a number of years ago. It's not exactly straightforward.

And somehow we've been running the same printer we bought in 2005 (hp) with every osx from 10.3 onward, across multiple laptops and computers.

 

[Mystic]

There usually are no problems with very common printers and scanners but photo printers and photo scanners are another matter.

Anyway, I really like Mac OS X. I don't know what is going to happen in the future. Apple could even move away from desktop computers and drop software like Aperture. There is no telling with Apple.

So I stay with both Windows and Apple. If I knew with 100% certainty that Apple was going to continue making desktop computers and continue developing new versions of Aperture, and if I knew with certainty that my photo printers and photo scanners would work okay, I would just completely switch to Macs.

With a little bit of improvement Aperture is good enough for photos. And I actually have some slideshow software for the Mac and my Windows slideshow software will work in Virtual Fusion. So I am tempted sometimes to just go Apple. It would make life a lot easier.

 

[Mystic]

The only problem with going completely Mac is the unpredictability of Apple. Apple is very secretive and you never know what they are going to do, and when a new CEO comes in to Apple whatever they are doing can change.

Even though some people hate Microsoft I cannot complain whatsoever with the way that Microsoft has treated me over the years. I can remember when the important Service Pack One Update came out for Windows XP. I had just a dial up internet and it would have been very hard to download all of that. I contacted Microsoft and they sent me a CD with the entire update on it. They did not have to do that. They were cool all the way. They sent me the update at no charge.

Apple has never gone out of their way like that. And now that Apple is rich they seem to care little about the needs of their customers. When Apple was recovering after nearly going broke they were better to their customers. Thousands of Apple customers who use Apple Aperture to work on photos keep waiting for Apple to finally come out with a new upgrade to correct some issues with the software. Many of those customers have switched to Adobe Lightroom. Aperture really is better software but it needs some improvement. And personally I would love to get away from Adobe software. But Apple does not seem to care and it is totally unknown if Apple will ever upgrade Aperture.

So I keep running my Windows computer and my iMac. I am not a Mac fanboy. I am not a Microsoft fanboy. I am not a Linux fanboy. I am loyal to myself. Whoever meets MY NEEDS will get my business. And the others can go broke for all I care. If they don't care about me, I don't care about them.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
The only problem with going completely Mac is the unpredictability of Apple. Apple is very secretive and you never know what they are going to do, and when a new CEO comes in to Apple whatever they are doing can change.


This is the truth. After owning an iMac for a few years, I became frustrated with the seemingly haphazard update cycle, and how newer versions of the OS (or even certain features) weren't supported on an iMac that was made in 2007, so it wasn't that old.

My biggest frustrated, though, is Apple's insistence on all-in-one desktops. I prefer a separate monitor and computer, so I can upgrade things as I desire and replace parts as needed. The speakers in our iMac were blown. It would have taken a good 2 hours with special tools to open the computer up and replace them. Same with the hard drive. No expandability. If I want to upgrade the graphics card...sorry Charlie. That's obvious and understandable with a laptop. But not with a desktop...not in my opinion anyway.

We switched back to Windows this last fall, on a Dell desktop, and have been happy. Our Mac OS experience was fine, though. Some things, as advertised, are easier in Mac OS. Some times, never advertised, seem far more difficult. I found that it wasn't the Utopia it's often advertised to be...but simply another OS on Intel hardware. And it was the desktop hardware I grew to dislike. The software was fine.

If we go back to Apple one day, it'd be with a Mac mini. Though it doesn't satisfy my craving for upgradeability over the long haul, it does at least let me run my own speakers and monitor.

 

[Mystic]

Finally somebody who seems to understand. My experience exactly. The Apple Mac OS X experience seems like a dream compared to Windows until you run into the issues. Hope you don't have any hardware problems with your computer-if you do you better have an extended warranty. Your older model Apple Computer (not that old) will not run the latest Mac operating system. Every time they come out with a new version of Mac OS X your printer or scanner might not work.

Apple can drop support for their own software anytime they want to. Nobody outside of Apple has a clue what they are going to do. They dropped support for iDVD. They may drop Aperture. They could even stop making desktop computers. Most of the money Apple makes today is in iPhones, etc. They could stop making iMacs tomorrow morning for all anybody knows.

With Adobe going to subscription only software for most of its software Apple could probably have the photography market if they wanted it-photographers would love to have professional quality software for working on photos and not have to put up with Adobe Software. But Apple does not seem to care. They update the old version of Aperture and never seem to develop a new version to keep the software totally up to date with the competition. The really sad thing is I 100% believe Aperture can be better than Adobe Lightroom and still is in some ways. Pretty sad.

Apple does not seem to interact with and relate to their customers. Maybe only billionaires can get their attention. One billionaire spent something like $800,000.00 dollars or whatever just to have lunch with the Apple CEO.

Microsoft may not be perfect and recently Microsoft has had its own issues. But with about eight dollars worth of Start8 software you can still make Windows 8/8.1 useable and your printer and scanner will probably still work, and you can have a computer made up of components with a separate monitor and so forth and replace anything that needs to be replaced. I still have parts six years old on my computer and it is still fast and can be updated. I could probably still run the current computer I have right now for at least another six years or so. So in the long run the Windows computer is much cheaper. And Windows is so common you know there will be software and hardware that works with it. And Microsoft executives kind of relate to their customers. Microsoft also supports their older operating systems for a longer period of time. A person today could probably run Windows 7 for several years. And have support.

I can't believe I finally found somebody who knwos what I am talking about.

 

[JHZR2]

For all your talking about apple dropping support, they installed for free the latest OS on my wife's out of warranty laptop, free, though technically it wasn't able. That meant installing two OSes, no questions asked.
I asked them how they would handle it if I installed a new SSD, and they said to bring it right back free.

That's far better service than I've ever gotten from MS. And that's not to belittle MS, just that service after the sale isn't something you necessarily get from Microsoft or the PC manufacturer. At least not for long and not for cheap.

I can't think if anything we have that has taken issue during a refresh cycle, though the timing of their stuff is odd. The whole power PC to Intel architecture change did make some inconsistencies as stuff got dropped, but I don't see it as a big deal really. In reality my 2003 Mac mini still gets used regularly for email and web, though there aren't any more os updates. Heck, my 1994ish power PC performance still works and runs well.

 

[Mystic]

I was most happy in my computer life back in the days of Mac OS 9 and I had a desktop computer with a separate monitor. Everything just worked. My dedicated film scanner worked. My photo printer worked. People using Mac Computers did not have to worry all that much about malware. And Windows XP at work and at home looked like trash compared to the Mac OS.

Mac OS 9 did not have the fancy multi-tasking and all of that of Mac OS X but it worked well (especially compared to Windows XP) and required just some simple maintenance. I had anti-virus protection just to be safe. I could go all over the internet and not worry much about malware, although there was some for those early Mac OSs. And the internet seemed like a much friendlier place back in those days and not half dark and evil.

And Apple was pretty friendly back in those days. We used to go to the non-Apple Store (that sold Apple Computers and software) that still exists and is still in business and we attended free classes and learned all kinds of stuff. People who had worked in the computer graphics industry would give talks. That non-Apple Store is still better than the typical Apple Store.

And to top it all off I had an ISP back in those days that was friendly and even had a party for all of the customers. I attended the party. Life was really good.

And now it is all just water down the stream. And for some reason the world seems like a much different place.

 

[Nayov]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
For all your talking about apple dropping support, they installed for free the latest OS on my wife's out of warranty laptop, free, though technically it wasn't able. That meant installing two OSes, no questions asked.
I asked them how they would handle it if I installed a new SSD, and they said to bring it right back free.

That's far better service than I've ever gotten from MS. And that's not to belittle MS, just that service after the sale isn't something you necessarily get from Microsoft or the PC manufacturer. At least not for long and not for cheap.

I can't think if anything we have that has taken issue during a refresh cycle, though the timing of their stuff is odd. The whole power PC to Intel architecture change did make some inconsistencies as stuff got dropped, but I don't see it as a big deal really. In reality my 2003 Mac mini still gets used regularly for email and web, though there aren't any more os updates. Heck, my 1994ish power PC performance still works and runs well.




Cannot see how this is impressive service. With all the Apple products you have bought, I sure hope they toss you a "free" bone every once in a while. No different than being a regular customer at a car dealer where the perks are not unusual for good repeat customers.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
For all your talking about apple dropping support, they installed for free the latest OS on my wife's out of warranty laptop, free, though technically it wasn't able. That meant installing two OSes, no questions asked.
I asked them how they would handle it if I installed a new SSD, and they said to bring it right back free.


I had a similar experience with the black Macbook. Once I installed the old OS and updates, I took it down there and they installed the newest OS while I waited, for no charge.

That said I DO understand the frustrations with their (frequent) SW changes, removed features, etc. Aperture comes to mind from stories I've heard. So does their movie maker....can't remember the name. (Not iDVD).

I've also fixed several broken Dell DT & LT's that were given to me and all of them now work. I think it's wise to buy business LT's instead of the cheap, flexible versions commonly marketed to consumers.

 

[Mystic]

Apple has iMovie and then another professional quality movie making program-I never owned it and I can't remember the name. But I do know that a lot of people were complaining when some features of that software were removed.

The software I know about is Aperture. Apple actually came out with the first version of Aperture BEFORE Adobe came out with Lightroom. Adobe may never have come out with Lightroom if Apple had not come out with Aperture. Aperture is still pretty good software for working on photos but they have fallen behind in some ways. Lightroom is up to version 5 and Aperture is still at version 3. Most people agree that Aperture needs better sharpening, better noise reduction, lens correction, and maybe photomerge. It is possible to buy plugins to make up for some of the shortcomings but when Aperture is updated the plugins may not work. Even though Aperture has fallen behind Lightroom I still prefer Aperture. I just wish they would come out with a new version that would take care of the shortcomings. If Apple wants to they can write better software than Adobe. And a lot of photographers are VERY UNHAPPY with Adobe!

Apple does not say what it is going to do so nobody has any idea if Apple will come out with a new version of Aperture or not. If they don't come out with a new version before too long I think I will just buy some plugins to make up for the shortcomings. Like a NIK Software sharpener, etc.

 

[antiqueshell]

When it comes to greed, Apple wins.

While I am not a fanboi of Microsoft you have to give them credit because once folks bought their copy of Windows XP back in 2001 MS has kept them with a decently functioning OS for now 13 years a NO extra cost. LOL

That is generosity of an extraordinary measure by ANY for profit corporation.

How many companies do ANYTHING like this that you know of?

 

[Mystic]

I sort of understand Apple being very concerned with money because Apple nearly went broke in 1997 or 1998. Steve Jobs, whom I really do not like, did a remarkable job of saving Apple. And of course all corporations put profits first. But I do think the accumulation of ever increasing mountains of money is starting to discolor Apple's vision.

A corporation must have a vision. What does Apple want to do? If they really do not want to be building desktop computers they should stop doing so. If they do want to build desktop computers they should be willing to make those desktop computers desirable to the widest possible number of people. And I think a corporation that loses contact with its customers will ultimately pay a big price. Listening to billionaires is fine but they need to listen to the ordinary customers also.

There are so many things that Apple can do. When they want to they can write incredible software. I personally believe that Apple can write better software than Adobe. Maybe spend a few of the billions they have on hand to develop new software. They could easily be the computer of choice for photographers, the computer of choice for writers, the computer of choice for computer graphics artists, the computer of choice for many different people with many different needs. A few billions of dollars would probably do it and they are sitting on some unbelievable amount of money.

In addition the market for cellphones and tablet computers and mp3 music players is an uncertain one. Apple is selling lot of iPhones right now but they are not even first and they have major competition, The Apple market for iPods and iPads has actually fallen. They may want to have desktop computers to fall back on.

I really like Apple software and I like Mac OS X. Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1 are good also but there is something about Apple software. I actually would not mind going completely Apple if I knew that Apple had a commitment to continued development of desktop computers and a commitment to continued development of high quality software for their computers. And if I knew my hardware would work (which probably is not all Apple's fault but the hardware seems to continue working with each new release of Windows).

There would be no reason for me to be running a Windows Computer also if all of those things could be realized.

But if Apple does not have a commitment to the continued development of desktop computers and high quality software I wish they would let me know. Because I would go Windows and sell my iMac. Instead of having to go two roads at the same time. Now Microsoft recently has also been a little goofy and I wish they would make some decisions also.

Whoever wants to build desktop computers that work for me wins. I just wish I had a better idea who is going to win. Because I want to go with the winner. The loser can disappear into history.

 

[zloveraz]

Wow if your that hurt with Apple and demanding they make commitments (like any other have?) to everything that your interested in just leave I'm sure the PC world can support you just fine. Not sure it matters if we have a winner, competition is good, just look at all of the MacBook Air clones, etc. I think Apple is in more tune with its users than just about any of the majors.

 

[rjundi]

The main issue I have with Mac is the slowness in service compared to my Lenovo Thinkpad. I have yet to have any software issues over 10 years with my work computers (XP and now Win7).

My wife's mac took over a week to repair via mail. IBM/Lenovo overnights a empty box to you with return overnight shipping. They typically fix within a day and then overnight back. Apple on the other hand takes there dear old time and then waiting at their store(30-45 mins) even with appointment now twice with a "appointment" at two different locations is infuriated.

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Apple has iMovie and then another professional quality movie making program-I never owned it and I can't remember the name. But I do know that a lot of people were complaining when some features of that software were removed.


Final Cut. Final Cut Pro version 9 was, as were the versions prior, an excellent if not unnecessarily complex piece of professional-grade software. Final Cut X was a stripped-down (dumbed-down?) mistake and Apple heard plenty about it from their professional base.

 

[Mystic]

Yeah, it was Final Cut Pro. I have seen that software demonstrated. The store where I buy my Apple stuff is one of the few non-Apple stores left that sell Apple Computers. They used to have free lectures on all kinds of stuff, plus I took classes in Beginning Photoshop and Advanced Photoshop there. That is where I saw a demonstration of Final Cut Pro. But I have never owned that software.

Final Cut Pro was actually used in movie production.