How's this for a plan?

[Hollow]

Car: 1996 Subaru Outback. 2.5 boxer engine.
Miles: 113,500 give or take.

The car is currently in the first cleaning phase of the "my car has over 100k" ARX cycle, using Castrol GTX 5w30. I'm switching over to Pennzoil YB 5w30 or Shell 5w30 [when I can't find a nice YB sale] for the rest of the ARX phase. I'm only switching away from Castrol because I don't really care for a noticable sodium additive in a car that has been prone to headgasket issues, that wouldn't help alot for a UOA.

This car, as well as my wife and I, is getting ready to move to Chicago where it will likely see very little driving, except for the 1-2 times a year 1500 mile round trip to our families. Other than that, just mild city driving when we need it for cargo space. Chicago also has quite the weather variety, so I plan on keeping it at 5w30.

I was thinking after the ARX to go to PP 5w30 and do 6 month OCI's, I doubt we'll be putting more than 3-5k on this car per year for the next several years. I was thinking PP would be better than dino for protection in the cold/hot/sitting a great deal conditions this car will experience.

Solid plan?

 

[02zx9r]

PP would hold up probably better but I would think a solid dino (yellow bottle, havoline, etc..) would hold up just as well, especially if 6 month intervals.

 

[coffee]

Yes, I would stick with YB 5w30 for the OCI as it will be plenty good. It is one of the best dino oils available.

 

[daman]

Your plan sounds good i would go with the PP syn. for a little better protection, plus it's cheap at wally world..

 

[dnewton3]

The cost of synthetic can't really be justified here, unless you count the warm-n-fuzzy feeling you get from thinking you're doing the "best" for your engine.

Don't get me wrong; synthetics can be very beneficial, and have their place. I use them in certain applications, too. But not in this case.

In reality, there just isn't any viable difference in wear protection for short OCI's between synthetic and dino. Too many UOA's can be shown both ways. Some showing a slight advantage to synthetics, others showing no advantage, some even a slight disadvantage. If it were clear cut, everyone on this site would agree, which clearly we don't. My point is, the is no OVERWHELMING evidence that shows short duration exposure OCI's to give any indication that synthetics "protect" better.

"But, what about synthetic's abilities in temperature extremes, Mr. dnewton3"?

Check out weather.com and you'll see that this is not an issue either. I looked at Nashville TN and Chicago IL; they are within 5 deg F for summer highs, and within 10 deg F temps for winter lows. Chicago averages +18 deg F in winter; that's not exactly artic-Alaska cold. Any 5w30 dino can handle that. The only true "hot" condition an engine will see in anywhere is an overheating condition from coolant system failure; "normal" operating temps are prefectly within the realm and grasp of dino fluids.

Come on, be realistic. If you WANT to run synthetic because it makes you feel good, then by gosh go for it. But for such short OCI's, and the realistically moderate temps, you cannot justify synthetics. You don't need them.

Wanting synthetics is subjective.
Needing synthetics is objective.

 

[Julian]

The distinction between need and want is subjective.

I agree with the others that particular synthetic isn't likely going to give the engine much better protection under those conditions than the yellow bottle, but otherwise your plan sounds fine to me.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
The cost of synthetic can't really be justified here, unless you count the warm-n-fuzzy feeling you get from thinking you're doing the "best" for your engine.

Don't get me wrong; synthetics can be very beneficial, and have their place. I use them in certain applications, too. But not in this case.

In reality, there just isn't any viable difference in wear protection for short OCI's between synthetic and dino. Too many UOA's can be shown both ways. Some showing a slight advantage to synthetics, others showing no advantage, some even a slight disadvantage. If it were clear cut, everyone on this site would agree, which clearly we don't. My point is, the is no OVERWHELMING evidence that shows short duration exposure OCI's to give any indication that synthetics "protect" better.

"But, what about synthetic's abilities in temperature extremes, Mr. dnewton3"?

Check out weather.com and you'll see that this is not an issue either. I looked at Nashville TN and Chicago IL; they are within 5 deg F for summer highs, and within 10 deg F temps for winter lows. Chicago averages +18 deg F in winter; that's not exactly artic-Alaska cold. Any 5w30 dino can handle that. The only true "hot" condition an engine will see in anywhere is an overheating condition from coolant system failure; "normal" operating temps are perfectly within the realm and grasp of dino fluids.

Come on, be realistic. If you WANT to run synthetic because it makes you feel good, then by gosh go for it. But for such short OCI's, and the realistically moderate temps, you cannot justify synthetics. You don't need them.

Wanting synthetics is subjective.
Needing synthetics is objective.


Very well put!

(should be a sticky)

 

[frank2009]

Nice articulate post Mr. D. Not so fast though if cost is the criteria in your recommendation. If one can demonstrate even a 1% increase in fuel economy, at todays prices, the cost of synthetics may be less expensive than conventional oil over a typical OCI. Factor in possible extended OCI's with the use of synth, and costs using synth oil is even lower. IMO the OP should try both conv and synth oils with an eye toward monitoring fuel economy before making a final decision.

 

[dnewton3]

I know many times I can come off as being AS (anti-synthetic); couldn't be further from the truth. They have their place for excellent applications.

Regarding the fuel savings, I think that is so very subjective as well. It's just hard to show a savings when the inputs are so variable. I DO believe there is a savings by going to a thinner fluid. In fact, I think there's more evidence here than people are willing to admit.

I don't see any significant statistical evidence to show that short OCI's will result in better wear protection comparing syn's to dino's. NOTE: frank2009, I ruled out the extended OCI's because that's what the OP basically committed to. I cannot/should not put him in a position that makes him feel uncomfortable. This is my whole point to my posts above. If one just CANNOT resist the call of the wrench every 5k miles or less, there is really little (or any) reason to run synthetics. Temp extremes are a moot point about 99% of the time. And wear protection is negated as a topic when short OCI's are the rule. Where does that leave us? The only thing left is EMOTION, not LOGIC.

All that being said, people should buy what they want to buy, and what makes them feel comfortable. It's the USA for goodness sake; it's capitalism at it's finest!

I just believe people should be honest with themselves and others when choosing synthetics. You can want them, or you could show a need for them; either way you can choose to use them. Just fess up to your wants, when you have them; don't disguise them in rationalization.

I will now step off my soapbox.

(for now.)

 

[Steve S]

Unless the Mfg recommends syn you will not get much of a benefit from syn oil. The last couple of oil ratings have closed the gap between syn oils and dino oils . Use the A/RX maint dose and dino oil you will be good to go.

 

[FZ1]

Very nice..........opinion....not fact.

 

[MisterBen]

I thought it was interesting; I was on the Mobil 1 site the other day reading through their FAQs and they have a "cost savings calculator". Based on my driving, I would save $177 in fuel over 7 years.

Unfortunately, compared to current prices of Mobil 1, I would spend an additional $250 or so in Mobil 1 over yellow bottle Pennzoil in that time frame - taking the cost savings into account (and current 6mo OCI for warranty).

Pushing out to annual OCIs would lessen that gap, though.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: MisterBen
I thought it was interesting; I was on the Mobil 1 site the other day reading through their FAQs and they have a "cost savings calculator". Based on my driving, I would save $177 in fuel over 7 years.

Unfortunately, compared to current prices of Mobil 1, I would spend an additional $250 or so in Mobil 1 over yellow bottle Pennzoil in that time frame - taking the cost savings into account (and current 6mo OCI for warranty).

Pushing out to annual OCIs would lessen that gap, though.
I used syn oil before it was the hot subject and with todays dino oils I really can't see using syn oils unless there is a special reason to.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
Very nice..........opinion....not fact.


Let me see your "facts".

Plenty of people have gone the distance with no issues using conventional oils.

If syn got even 1% MPG increase EVERY mfg would be requiring it.

Let me see your UOAs on the *same* engine and *same* driving conditions showing the improvement that syn did over conventional.

Please show me the engine that died using conventional oils and then the one that went so much further.

Also, please disclose if you have any business interest on pushing syn oils.

Bill

 

[FZ1]

But if I did all that, then you would know as much as I. Lol.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
Quote:
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Very nice..........opinion....not fact.


But if I did all that, then you would know as much as I. Lol.


Rest my case.

This board was started by folks who wanted facts and experiences posted.

Not just people who need to justify their use of a certain brand or type of oil with out actual results.

Since we have grown we have gotten further away from the first and more from the latter.

Take care, bill

 

[Norm Olt]

You could easily leave the PP in there for a year... Or more!

Cheers!

 

[FZ1]

Come on,man, have a little fun! Each person's experience and knowledge is educational and appreciated. Nothing wrong with opinions. Psst! I've got free dealer fill conventional in mine now.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
Come on,man, have a little fun! Each person's experience and knowledge is educational and appreciated. Nothing wrong with opinions. Psst! I've got free dealer fill conventional in mine now.

Bill get's [censored] when you bash his dino juice.