How to Reduce Oil Consumption - Tips and Tricks...

[RalphPWood]

Don't use a dino 5W 30 in an engine you care anything about. If you use a thin oil make sure it is a synthetic. Never warm up an engine before driving it. Start the engine and go. Don't hit 80 miles per hour until the engine is warmed up. Don't allow your oil to get dirty. Change the oil every day before driving or install a submicronic bypass filter. The full flow filter is very close to being useless in a good engine because there is almost nothing large enough for it to remove. There are millions of abrasive particles plus water that can only be removed with an absorbing type submicronic bypass filter.
I over revved a 38 Chevy on a cold morning 50 years ago. The top of a piston broke in three pieces and fell into the oil pan. A good lesson learned. Factory installed oil filters were a lot better in those days but many were optional equipment. My 64 Rambler had one of the last factory installed bypass filters. It was just a junk spin on filter with oil lines going to it. I almost forgot, my 82 Mazda diesel had a factory installed bypass filter. These are handy because the pressure and return ports can be used to install a good bypass filter. Clean oil in a clean engine means less oil consumption. I am biased. Of the top three submicronic bypass filters in the US I sell two of them. The British have a good one that uses expensive elements and is messy to change.
There is more interest in proper filtration these days but I don't think the dirty oil and oil change system is in any trouble.

Ralph

 

[dbrowne1]

quote:

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Originally posted by RalphPWood:
Change the oil every day before driving or install a submicronic bypass filter. The full flow filter is very close to being useless in a good engine because there is almost nothing large enough for it to remove. There are millions of abrasive particles plus water that can only be removed with an absorbing type submicronic bypass filter.

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You ARE kidding, right? Change my oil every day?

Most of the particles that don't get trapped by a good quality (i.e. not a FRAM) filter are too small to do any major damage anyway. A 5 micron particle isn't going to do much of anything, so submicronic filtration seems silly to me.

quote:

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I over revved a 38 Chevy on a cold morning 50 years ago. The top of a piston broke in three pieces and fell into the oil pan. A good lesson learned. Factory installed oil filters were a lot better in those days but many were optional equipment.

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What does the filter have to do with this incident? Sounds like you overrevved it (mistake number one), and fifty years ago we didn't have synthetic motor oils with pourpoints of -60 degrees (mistake number 2, not waiting to let the oil warm up). Some Mobil 1 5W30 might have saved your engine.

I'd be willing to bet that my $6 OEM VW oil filter is better than anything made 50 years ago.

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

Wow, a lot of different theories listed here.

Well, let me throw this into the mix for you.

Oil consumption is usually not from noack vol due to burn off but from excessive ring wear or valve stem seal leaks, which causes blow by.

Given this, if you are experiencing oil consumption, a thicker or high viscosity base oil would slow this problem down. How?

1, a thicker base oil does 2 things, 1 creates a better seal around the rings, giving you a better seal around the rings, giving you better compression. Also, since the rings are in a high shear zone, an oil will tend to shear down to it's bottom base wt and if it consumes oil using a 5wxx, then say a 15wxx oil will slow this process down as it will only shear down to a 15 instead of the thinner 5w. By this happening, the oil cannot pass by the rings as easily, helping compression and slowing oil blowby.

As for startups.....

Guys, most all of you are right. A couple of things to consider here. 1, with antidrainback valves in engines and filters, oil is sitting in channels and ready to pump as soon as you start turning over the engine. Oil pressure only takes just a few sec's. Of course many argue that oil isn't at the wrist pins and such by this time. Maybe so, BUT, this is where barrier lubes really shine. A good barrier lube will give dry start protection. Depending on the type of barrier lube, this can be for a few seconds before sacrificing totally to a few minutes or more in some cases. No matter which, by the time the oil reaches these areas, few will shear out before full metal to metal damage would occur.

Given this, you can start a car, as soon as oil pressure is achived(within secs) and oil light goes off or oil pressure is up on gauge, then you have more than enough lubrication to go, Synth or mineral, it makes no difference at this point.

Using a remote starter will not cause any problems. As for fuel dilution prior due to excessive idleing, In standard comutes of more than say 20 mins, will give you more than enough heat and time to burn off enough moisture and excessive fuel vapors and this is only when an engine has excessive ring blowby.

 

[TooSlick]

I would add that some engines burn quite a bit more oil if you try to keep them topped up all the time. I would wait until the oil level is at least 1/2 quart low before topping off the crankcase. If the engine is fairly new and still burns oil, then using a PAO/Ester synthetic with a very low evaporation rate will significantly reduce oil consumption. This is especially true under high heat/high load conditions. I see this so often I don't even think it is a debatable
issue. The newer, group II petroleum oils do a bit better in this regard, but their evaporation rates are still 50%-100% higher than the best synthetics. In a fairly new engine, most of the oil you use simply evaporates. These vapors are then drawn in through the PCV system and burned.

Ted

 

[VeeDubb]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ted Kublin:
If the engine is fairly new and still burns oil, then using a PAO/Ester synthetic with a very low evaporation rate will significantly reduce oil consumption.
Ted

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Ted,
What are some examples of synthetic brands and weights that use a PAO/Ester synthetic with a very low evaporation rate? Thanks

 

[TooSlick]

VeeDub,

The usual suspects ...Mobil 1, Redline, Amsoil, etc. The 10w-30 grades will have the lowest evaporation rates, since they use heavier basestocks and less VI modifier than 0w-30 or 5w-30 oils. A wide range oil like a 0w-40 or 5w-50 will tend to evaporate significantly more than a narrow range formulation. For example, the Amsoil 0w-40 has a Noack of 11.6%, whereas their 10w-30 has a Noack of only 6.6%. The same trends will hold true for other oil formulators ....

Since both your engines are turbocharged, a 10w-30 synthetic should be ideal ....If you see significant oil consumption with mobil 1, I'd try the Amsoil 10w-30 or Redline. These latter two oils are also formulated at the high end of the 30wt range in terms of operating viscosity, so that will also help. Mobil 1, 10w-30 has a viscosity of 9.9 Cst @ 100C ...by comparison the Amsoil 10w-30 is 11.9 Cst @ 100C. In other words it's about 20% thicker at operating temp, although both are classified as 10w-30 oils.

Ted

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ted Kublin:
I would add that some engines burn quite a bit more oil if you try to keep them topped up all the time. I would wait until the oil level is at least 1/2 quart low before topping off the crankcase.

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Are you sure this is a good idea? My wife's Honda only holds roughly 3.8 quarts, so having
1/2 quart less means there is about 13% of the oil missing. I don't think I'd feel comfortable
letting it get that low? With all the cars I have owned that used any oil, I've always topped
them up a little at a time when the level starts going down. Like with my Firebird now, it has
holes in the dipstick so when the first hole is exposed, I'll add 100ml or so of oil to bring it
back to the top. (this LT1 engine doesn't burn the oil as much as it's leaking it out the back of
the intake manifold actually, but at this point it's not a large enough amount to warrant
repairing yet-it's not even at the rate of 1qt per 3k)

 

[VeeDubb]

Ted,
Thanks for the excellent info.

The Volvo does seem to be consuming some oil but a little less than I thought when I rechecked again yesterday afternoon. But considering my wife doesn't really push the car often, I'm a little concerned that there is any. So I may try your recommendations and switch to Redline or Amsoil on the next change. I can't seem to locate Delvac anywhere. I did find a performance parts store that sells Redline at $6.75 per quart and Amsoil at $9.50.

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

But considering my wife doesn't really push the car often, I'm a little concerned that there is any.

You think maybe she pushes it more than you are aware of??

So I may try your recommendations and switch to Redline or Amsoil on the next change. I can't seem to locate Delvac anywhere.

Vee, You might want to try GeorgeCLS for the delvac or MSparks for the amsoil. Both are located on the orderpage of this site. Aside from helping the sponsors on this site, Another thing is some of these sponsors offer discounts over and above normal OTC prices. Msparks has indicated anyone from this site that calls him will recieve discounted prices on amsoil products, so it might be worth checking out what he and others has to offer before paying higher prices locally.

TED say's
some engines burn quite a bit more oil if you try to keep them topped up all the time. I would wait until the oil level is at least 1/2 quart low before topping off the crankcase. If the engine is fairly new and still burns oil, then using a PAO/Ester synthetic with a very low evaporation rate will significantly reduce oil consumption. This is especially true under high heat/high load conditions. I see this so often I don't even think it is a debatable
issue.

I have a concern with this statement, but first, Please explain just why would you think certain engines just like to be low one quart and what is the FAILING COMPONENT causing this problem. You keep stating evaporation of oil is causing this problem and I don't agree with your statements as it doesn't fit the problem. Is there a mechanical problem or do you really think the only issue it due to oil quality or is there a reason other than oil?

 

[RalphPWood]

[/qb][/QUOTE]You ARE kidding, right? Change my oil every day?

To have continuously clean oil you could get close if you changed the oil every day. Most engine wear is caused by abrasives between 5 and 10 microns. One micron particles are not abrasive unless they build up in the oil and start agglomeration. This is common with diesel soot.
The reason I broke the piston had nothing to do with the oil. The engine didn't have a filter. The engine couldn't handle the RPM. My Camry probably could.

I'd be willing to bet that my $6 OEM VW oil filter is better than anything made 50 years ago.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Are you sure your VW oil filter is as good as the one on a 37 Studebaker. The filters were a lot better in those days. Motor oil was also a lot dirtier. After the 1950's decent filters were abandoned except for being offered as optional equipment on heavy duty diesel engines.

Ralph

 

[TooSlick]

VeeDub,

At those prices I'd try the Redline 5w-30 or 10w-30 ...as I mentioned, it is formulated a bit thicker than the Mobil 1 30wt oils. The amsoil product must be their Series 2000 stuff, but they are marking it up too much. Suggested retail is more like $7.95/qt, by the case.

Ted

 

[VeeDubb]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ted Kublin:
VeeDub,

At those prices I'd try the Redline 5w-30 or 10w-30 ...as I mentioned, it is formulated a bit thicker than the Mobil 1 30wt oils. The amsoil product must be their Series 2000 stuff, but they are marking it up too much. Suggested retail is more like $7.95/qt, by the case.

Ted

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Ted, my head is starting to hurt. Should I go with Redline or Delvac 5w-40 in the Volvo (90k miles on it and minor oil consumption)? You had praised Delvac in earlier post so I'm a bit confused. Make it simple for this oil novice.
Thanks

 

[sprintman]

Veedubb
Try the D1. It sure will give your engine a good cleanup if nothing else. Poorly marketed by Mobil IMHO even after winning Lubricants World Product of the year in 98, but getting increased recognition these days.

 

[widman]

My 2002 Toyota pickup says not to idle more than 10 seconds or so on start-up unless the temperature is below freezing, then to wait "a few minutes" before driving. My guess would be that this should be some kind of curve, not just watching the thermometer. I figure after starting the car by the time i get my seat belt on, my music back on the radio/cd/whatever, and get my seat and mirrors back to where they should be, it is time to drive out. Unless I'm just shuttling cars in the driveway because I need the one that is blocked in by 3 others.
As for not using "5w30 Dino", you are going to have to come up with a weird definition of "Dino" to justify that. Most are calling group II "Dino". If you are, then I'd suggest you look at results. Chevron Supreme 5w30 is a fantastic product - not as good as their Supreme Synthetic 5w30, but better than most of the "Dinos".
I don't remember SAE standards for filters of the 50's and before. Did we really have a standard that was better? Why did we get so excited if our cars made it to 100,000 miles? I remember always seeing the pressure guage on max upon startup.
By-Pass filters sound great, and I've looked into them several times, but they've never come out economical. If a good Group I 20w50 oil can give you 300,000 miles in a gasoline engine with 4,000 mile changes and standard filters in 100% off road/mountain conditions, what is the breakeven point for for a by-pass filter?

 

[RalphPWood]

Widman,

My concern with 5 W-30 is when I look in my Toyota Camry owners manual it tells me the 5 W- 30 is only good for up to 50 degrees F and the 10-30 is god for from 0 degrees F on up. I've read that 5-30 doesn't protect the engine very well but it was made to increase the auto makers corporate average fuel economy or (CAFE) numbers. For some reason I believed it. It sounds about right.
I was in Idaho thru 8 winters. By the time I got to the freeway after driving through town I was able to pour the coal to it. I admit to letting the engine idle while I scraped ice.
I remember about 50 years ago seeing an article in the paper about a guy that got 100,000 mile on a flathead Ford. It might have been on the front page. I put a filter on a Toyota Corolla about 18 years ago with almost 100,000 miles. He said is it too late to install a bypass filter? I said not if you plan on keeping it awhile. He told me awhile back he finally sold it. It had over 500,000 on it. I was asked awhile back if I had any use for a Honda Civic with 350,000 miles on it. I put a filter on it when it was new.
The old Fram bypass filter was similar to the other bypass filters like AC, Puralator, etc. The canister on the Fram had a decal that showed a clean dipstick with the words the dipstick tells the story. They used some type of cellulose. They were similar to the big bypass filters you see on heavy duty trucks. The big truck filters mostly use shredded newspaperes packed into the perforated cartridge. You can do the math. I don't drain the oil. I change the filter and add one qt of oil every 4,000 miles. The elements cost less than 1.00. The housing is a Motor Guard submicronic bypass filter over 30 years old on the Subaru and a newer Motor Guard on the Camry.

Ralph

 

[widman]

Ok, you have bypass filters for $1.00? Now I am interested.

 

[MattBurditt]

Thanks The_Oz, for your valuable tips, I also think if reduce Oil Consumption, first anyone needs to good Driving habits and obviously need to use a good oil like 5w40. Never warm up an engine before driving it. Change The Oil and Filter at least every 5000 miles

 

[ZeeOSix]

1st place thread resurrection award.

 

[SilverFusion2010]

15 year-old thread. Impressive necromancy.

 

[bigj_16]

Are any of these posters still living?