I think a foreclosure is a lot worse than a repo or a wreck (assuming no injuries and just a totalled car). Lose your car, you can get another one for a couple thousand bucks that'll serve your transportation needs. Lose your house? Find another place to live. Maybe, hopefully, find a place for all of the stuff you had in your house that won't fit in the place you found.
How many foreign car owners will consider buying American next time?
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One of the high schools in Manassas was using 1988 Chevy Celebrities for their drivers ed cars and this was in 1995. I have no idea what they had to do to them to keep them going with all of the abuse those cars get (like idiots putting them in drive with the engine racing).
I like competitive product, not just reliability but the product itself.
There are definitely many domestic vehicles that I'd consider for purchase these days.
Since I tend to buy used, I may benefit from their catastrophic depreciation (which should change once the public catches-on that there are some good domestic cars to be had these days).
There are definitely many domestic vehicles that I'd consider for purchase these days.
Since I tend to buy used, I may benefit from their catastrophic depreciation (which should change once the public catches-on that there are some good domestic cars to be had these days).
How about those 5-speed Honda Automatics that had issues? Known issues.
How about those Lexus RX300 and ES300s with the Aisin Warner 5-spd transmission units that had problems?
How about you go over to AcuraZine's 3rd Gen TL section and ask owners how good is the quality of their $35K car, one that has squeaks, rattles, etc.
The foreign cars having better reliability is really a blanket statement. I think in more and more cases, it is simply "perceived" quality.
With that said, in regards to the original question, I may buy American next time only if the car is significantly cheaper. But I do know that everyone in our family refuses to buy another American car after the Saturn as they were unimpressed with the build quality NOT the actual reliability.
Is a car assembled in Detroit under a US auto company badge with an engine assembled in Canada and a transmission assembled in Mexico and most of the nuts/bolts/washers manufactured overseas an American car?
^^^This is why you have to do your homework if you are actually concerned with buying American. Look at the window sticker and see where it is assembled and where the parts come from. With a 700+ billion dollar trade deficit and a car being such a major purchase, we all should be doing our part looking at the label on everything we buy. There are still plenty of choices with a high domestic parts content and assembled in the US.
I still own an '84 Canadian made and amazed with its reliability. Despite the carburated model it has prooved to be more reliable than the much newer japans or Germans that I've experienced. I learned ho stupid things too, like keeping with throttle on the steeply inclined garage entry, revving when cold in P, aciidentally throving to P before stopping, thinking a leaky hose would just mean to add water then overheating badly when it went on the road. Others (2000 VW and '98 Mitsubishi) would broke down on the road when they get half (if not quarter) the abuse it got. I was to sell it after experienced but my eyes opened after I saw the others. May be the Wednesday in springtime phenomenon
Toyota gets a free pass from the press/many people...
They are green and ultra reliable, and anything thats says otherwise is simply dismissed.
I'm not saying that they make bad cars, not at all. But when the discussion turns to reliability, they have their share of recalls and problems. And they're building a truck plant in Texas and have more trucks in their lineup than cars.
But only GM is "bad" for relying on trucks. It's OK for Toyota to do it.
The Prius seems to cloud better judgement...
They are green and ultra reliable, and anything thats says otherwise is simply dismissed.
I'm not saying that they make bad cars, not at all. But when the discussion turns to reliability, they have their share of recalls and problems. And they're building a truck plant in Texas and have more trucks in their lineup than cars.
But only GM is "bad" for relying on trucks. It's OK for Toyota to do it.
The Prius seems to cloud better judgement...
Build quality is important, obviously, but that's something that can oftentimes be determined immediately or within a couple hours or days. Reliability is important for the next 10+ years.
BMWs generally have pretty good build quality. Maybe not enough to justify their price tag, but still pretty good. But I've heard way too many horror stories of people taking their new BMWs for unscheduled visits and repair work. It may be covered by warranty for 5 years, but it's still a hassle to do this when your car is only a couple years old.
The EMF from the electric motors is specially tuned to a frequency that causes the occupants to think nice things about Toyota
Depends on the brand and the model.
YES to most models: Toyota, Honda, Infiniti, Subaru, Lexus, Acura, Volvo
YES to some models: Nissan, Ford, BMW, VW, Audi, MB, Buick, Mazda, Cadalliac, Lincoln
No to most models: GM, Chrysler, Dodge, Chevy, Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Isuzu, Hummer, Pontiac, Saturn
Of course, if they are extremely good deal (i.e. 60% off MSRP on a Malibu new), then everything is possible.
YES to most models: Toyota, Honda, Infiniti, Subaru, Lexus, Acura, Volvo
YES to some models: Nissan, Ford, BMW, VW, Audi, MB, Buick, Mazda, Cadalliac, Lincoln
No to most models: GM, Chrysler, Dodge, Chevy, Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Isuzu, Hummer, Pontiac, Saturn
Of course, if they are extremely good deal (i.e. 60% off MSRP on a Malibu new), then everything is possible.
We did, three times, and now we don't own foreign cars. Going from a Honda Civic to a larger car we looked at the Camry and Accord, but bought a Taurus for the bench seat, room, and lower price. Six years later we looked again and bought another Taurus. Four years later looking for a bigger vehicle, we bought a Dodge diesel pickup as the Japanese didn't have a full size truck, much less a diesel. We donated the Honda a few years back as it was pretty much shot at about 120k miles.
The older Taurus is getting long on tooth, edging up on 199k miles, and we need to be considering another car. Nothing 'Japanese' stands out as being some sort of must have. A diesel wagon would be nice but they aren't very common, and we sure don't want to be spending over $20k on a car.
The older Taurus is getting long on tooth, edging up on 199k miles, and we need to be considering another car. Nothing 'Japanese' stands out as being some sort of must have. A diesel wagon would be nice but they aren't very common, and we sure don't want to be spending over $20k on a car.
buying non american is actually as american as apple pie...
it's called capitalism... have it made cheaper elsewhere so you can get a better deal... it gets no more american than that....
the only people saying it's unamerican are the american companies losing profits... i'd buy american if it was as reliable as my honda, have been very impressed with honda... not to say american cars can't be as reliable.
it's called capitalism... have it made cheaper elsewhere so you can get a better deal... it gets no more american than that....
the only people saying it's unamerican are the american companies losing profits... i'd buy american if it was as reliable as my honda, have been very impressed with honda... not to say american cars can't be as reliable.
JHZR2
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"perceived" quality is just it...
I went into harbor freight tools tonight, and was looking at air compressors and generators... then after getting home, I looked at same as well as power sprayers (gas powered) on the internet.
Ive never owned a honda product, my girlfriend has an integra though... The only engines we've ever had are either echo or Briggs and stratton... Never had a complaint with either... However, I noted and multiple times caught myself gravitating towards any unit that had a honda engine listed on it, and to some point, same for robin subaru engines... I can note myself discounting B&S because, for some reason, which has no experience behind it, I am filled with this notion that a honda engine in a piece of power equipment is better...
It came in like a parasite... just infiltrated me... and Im only talking about 5hp outdoor equipment!
BTW, I dont think that people give euro car "build quality" enough praise... repair issues due to electronics and high tech electornic doodads is what cuases most of the problems... the BMW sludge and whatnot is mostly due to idiotic owners and bean-counter based maintenance suggestions... its hard enough to ge folks to remember 3mo/3000 miles... how easiuly will they forget a change if its less than once a year? Anyway, all euro products that Ive driven or owned, from 20+ years old to brand new have been EXCELLENT.
JMH
I went into harbor freight tools tonight, and was looking at air compressors and generators... then after getting home, I looked at same as well as power sprayers (gas powered) on the internet.
Ive never owned a honda product, my girlfriend has an integra though... The only engines we've ever had are either echo or Briggs and stratton... Never had a complaint with either... However, I noted and multiple times caught myself gravitating towards any unit that had a honda engine listed on it, and to some point, same for robin subaru engines... I can note myself discounting B&S because, for some reason, which has no experience behind it, I am filled with this notion that a honda engine in a piece of power equipment is better...
It came in like a parasite... just infiltrated me... and Im only talking about 5hp outdoor equipment!
BTW, I dont think that people give euro car "build quality" enough praise... repair issues due to electronics and high tech electornic doodads is what cuases most of the problems... the BMW sludge and whatnot is mostly due to idiotic owners and bean-counter based maintenance suggestions... its hard enough to ge folks to remember 3mo/3000 miles... how easiuly will they forget a change if its less than once a year? Anyway, all euro products that Ive driven or owned, from 20+ years old to brand new have been EXCELLENT.
JMH
So, let's get this straight. The price you paid for your W8 means what about the resale prices of Hondas and Toyotas? Nothing? I thought so.
As some have pointed out in their posts, there's much left to desire in terms of power and just liking the vehicle's environment over ownership.
Addressing power - well being a large outfit attempting to supply a wide array of vehicles yet still maintaining a mpg balance...perhaps the balanced is shifted to allow for no-compromises in the truck and legend sport(s) car ranges, while the rest share the remaining balance, thus more compromised. Could material investment and thus vehicle durability/part longevity compared to average vehicle cost as offered to the market, be balanced along similar lines of thought?
Style and overall design has, for me, seemed behind for the "big 3" as compared with other manufactures. They just don't seem to take what I think they feel as too much of a risk. It's almost as if companies are focused more on pushing margins rather than addressing the concerns and desires of their clientel - being large, broad offering company as they are, that are serving a large market filled with diverse tastes and operative comditions.
Buy american. Buy foreign. Buy what best suites your needs and is most convenient for you to maintain. The trend to globalize production and labor is making a "breed's" origin increasingly unclear.
FWIW - I currently own and drive a european wagon that's 11 years old and going strong. Seemed like quite a bargin when I bought it used some 6 years ago. Still love it, esspecially knowing I save some good $$$ everytime I do required maintenance myself - though I understand not everyone has that option. The story on newer model years doesn't seem so good - related to mergers and their overall impact on design and production???
Addressing power - well being a large outfit attempting to supply a wide array of vehicles yet still maintaining a mpg balance...perhaps the balanced is shifted to allow for no-compromises in the truck and legend sport(s) car ranges, while the rest share the remaining balance, thus more compromised. Could material investment and thus vehicle durability/part longevity compared to average vehicle cost as offered to the market, be balanced along similar lines of thought?
Style and overall design has, for me, seemed behind for the "big 3" as compared with other manufactures. They just don't seem to take what I think they feel as too much of a risk. It's almost as if companies are focused more on pushing margins rather than addressing the concerns and desires of their clientel - being large, broad offering company as they are, that are serving a large market filled with diverse tastes and operative comditions.
Buy american. Buy foreign. Buy what best suites your needs and is most convenient for you to maintain. The trend to globalize production and labor is making a "breed's" origin increasingly unclear.
FWIW - I currently own and drive a european wagon that's 11 years old and going strong. Seemed like quite a bargin when I bought it used some 6 years ago. Still love it, esspecially knowing I save some good $$$ everytime I do required maintenance myself - though I understand not everyone has that option. The story on newer model years doesn't seem so good - related to mergers and their overall impact on design and production???
Someone would do well to make an effort to ensure that they're replying in the proper thread
I wouldn't consider JD power a great source of info. Not a true unbiased reviewer. They toughted Fidelity as a top extended warranty company. Of course they don't tell you it doesn't cover wear and tear, which is a big negative since that leaves out alot of uncovered parts.
Now as far as "not looking so good," what are they basing their results on? 1.8t owners, V6? Glad to see you've turned this into a VW bashing.
You've definitely twisted this all around and gotten completely off topic.
I'm sure you'll have a rebuttal. Keep plugging along, maybe you'll win something.
Lack of repair info for the newer European models is also a problem. Not everyone has a public library with Mitchell's On Demand--but where else are you going to go to find out what you need to know to troubleshoot the wiper switch on a 1997 C230? There's no Haynes manuals for them (as of the last time I checked, anyway).
[ February 14, 2006, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: joee12 ]
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