How many foreign car owners will consider buying American next time?

[BatmanLS1]

Sorry, math does not add up above, trouble free for me for 30k.

Also, if Ford or Chevy come out with a V6 diesel pickup (F150 or 1500 hopefully, not the HDs), that will be the next vehicle I purchase.

 

[Evil Ron]

JHZR2, I buy new vehicles and keep them forever (or try to). My fear is a car being totaled before being paid off. I don't think this is ridiculous, stupid or dumb.

 

[W8inDE]

quote:

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Further, anyone who would buy one of these two year old honda or toyota products that has 25k miles on it and is only $1-2000 cheaper than brand new is dumb as well.

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Not sure where you researched or purchased used cars before, but you can get a much better deal than that. In December 2004 I bought my 2002 W8 w/ 30k ,miles still under manufacturer's warranty (50k or Oct 2006) for $18k, MSRP new was $42k! And I'd bet it will outlast most new american cars. I imagine same applies to Toyota or Honda.

I had a 2001 Ford focus we got rid of last year. At 30k mile service it needed new control arms, shocks, and brakes. Piece of junk. I sold it to a Chinese grad student at local university. Same goes for my new company Ford Freestyle. MSRP of ~$25k, and w/ 2k miles it rattles, squeaks, and the V6 engine is weak. And that's part of Ford's new line-up

Another piece of junk that will probably die before 100k miles.

 

[brianl703]

JHZR2 is clearly talking about Hondas and Toyotas, not VWs.

As far as VWs go, I would never consider them to be in the same league as Toyota and Honda as far as reliability. Their resale value is also poop, as you've just demonstrated.

 

[W8inDE]

Obviously he was talking about hondas and toyotas, I noted that with the phrase "I imagine same applies to toyota or honda."

What you say about "resale value is also poop, as you've demonstrated" is not correct. Used W8s sell for higher, I happened to get mine wholesale from my buddy. That price was less than wholesale value at the time. Resale is comparable to most German vehicles. A used A6 2.7t w/ similar mileage age would sell for ~$25, of course MSRP new was about $48k. Resale is still better than most american cars.

VWs not in the same league? True. I would say a league above. W8 is essentially an A6 with a W8 engine. Not your average VW. Plus, VWs hold up alot more than made in USA.

As far as reliability, no one beats Toyota or Honda. That's a tough task.

 

[Korean_redneck]

American car? What is that?

 

[JHZR2]

Yep, Brian was correct, I meant toyotas an hondas... I agree with Brian.

JMH

 

[rjundi]

I like wagons and Domestic offerings are very few especially with manual tranmission. So no.

I do own one "foreign" car built by the UAW in Indiana, although only 50% Domestic parts content. aA2005 Subaru Legacy GT that I am beyond happy with the product/engineering and 250HP(

) thus far after one year.

 

[NJC]

"How many foreign car owners will consider buying American next time?"

After owning and driving Chevies, I bought a Corolla in '94 and have not looked back at Detroit and probably never will.

Even my Dad, who has a Chevy Country sign in his front yard, has had to add "and Nissan" and now "and Subaru." He has been driving Chevies for 50yrs.

Another family member has grown weary of replacing transmissions on Chrysler vans. He will not buy another Chrysler.

Yet another family member has seen their 1993 Caravan depreciate $7,300 in 5yrs, and it was 8yrs old when it was purchased! No more him either after this one.

 

[Thorn]

My wife recently totaled a 2004 Honda Pilot that I bought as a Certified Pre-owned in February of 2005. My insurance company gave me more for the vehicle than what I paid for it! Needless to say, the payout was more than what I owed.

I considered getting a Ford Explorer as a replacement, but the depreciation on them is ridiculous compared to Toyota and Honda. If the totaled Pilot would've been an Explorer, I am almost sure I would've been upside-down on payments.

I saved a few thousand dollars versus buying it new, and the Certified pre-owned warranty was much better than the new car warranty.

 

[W8inDE]

Brian, are you really that clueless? When did you try to relate VW resale and honda/toyota? Your original statement was "As far as VWs go, I would never consider them to be in the same league as Toyota and Honda as far as reliability. Their resale value is also poop, as you've just demonstrated." You were comparing reliability to honda and toyota. My statement about resale was in response to your comment about VWs resale being "poop." So your comment means what about...anything? Your little word games all to make yourself feel psychologically satisfied. English is my second language and I understand it better than most. That includes being able to read my original statement noting the reference to Toyota and Honda. My point was a general statement about purchasing foreign used cars for a better deal than $1-2k below that of a new one. And if you can't negotiate a better deal than that on a honda/toyota, then that's just pathetic.

I've owned VWs and Audis all my life (from 15 to 38 years in Russia and U.S.). No reliability issues here. The American cars I've had were junk. Now on the other hand, my F150 is a great truck.

[ February 13, 2006, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: W8inDE ]

 

[DJ]

Father-in-law likes to get a new Pilot about every year on lease, has had MINOR warranty work on everyone I believe 15K max on the highest milage one. We bought my wife a '03 Impala with the 3.4L in late '03 she must be pushing 60k by now brakes are begining to make a little noise I will have to look at, no warranty work or even so much as a light bulb.

Domestics did at one time build largely crap as did imports, they have all stepped up their game the Imports just began improving during detroits slide in the 70s and 80s. Much of the Import thing is about PERCIEVED quality and the better treatment they get. With the comparitively poor resale on domestics many owners do not bother with routine matainence where many import owners do. Brother-in-law was a top tech for a Lincoln Merc dealer, now works at a Jag/Volvo/'rover dealer and says people don't bat an eye at $1500 100K mile service packages, where the lincoln owners didn't want to spend $70 on a battery. The Volvos he said are very complex to work on need to tell the computer when you replace so much as a window switch. He now has a Volvo and his wife a Jag and even he agrees with me as far as the Import thing being more PERCIEVED than real and the rest is largely the quality or the owner and wether they service the vehicle properly.

I have a 193K mile 95 Roadmaster wagon in my driveway still doing pretty well had some minor issues and I will have to put a radiator in it but that radiator is easily available aftermarket for under $150 and I can replace it in about 20 minutes, LOTS of room to work.

 

[cousincletus]

I've had the best luck with GM but would consider a Ford depending on the model. I just can't see any import being significantly better, only more expensive. I always look at the window sticker for the place of final assembly and percentage of domestic parts. Of course with GM and Ford being the only two American companies left, for now on they will take preference over Chrysler or any import brand. It's downright scary to see our manufacturing going overseas, and the jobs lost by GM and Ford will not be replaced by the foreign transplants.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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When did you try to relate VW resale and honda/toyota?

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I didn't, you did:

quote:

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Further, anyone who would buy one of these two year old honda or toyota products that has 25k miles on it and is only $1-2000 cheaper than brand new is dumb as well.

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quote:

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Not sure where you researched or purchased used cars before, but you can get a much better deal than that. In December 2004 I bought my 2002 W8 w/ 30k ,miles still under manufacturer's warranty (50k or Oct 2006) for $18k, MSRP new was $42k! And I'd bet it will outlast most new american cars. I imagine same applies to Toyota or Honda.

---

Then you said, in the next post:

quote:

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Used W8s sell for higher, I happened to get mine wholesale from my buddy. That price was less than wholesale value at the time.

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As if everyone who wants to buy a used Honda or Toyota can get them wholesale from their buddy like you did.

So could you please tell me exactly how what you paid for your W8 which you bought wholesale from your buddy has to do with Toyota or Honda prices?

Most people don't have buddies who sell them cars below wholesale. The prices of used W8s have nothing to with the prices of used Hondas or Toyotas.

What you imagine and what the reality is are two different things.

quote:

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My statement about resale was in response to your comment about VWs resale being "poop." So your comment means what about...anything?

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I was't then aware that you got a great deal on this car from a buddy, because I thought that anyone would a functioning brain would realize that such deals are out of the norm and wouldn't try to draw conclusions about what other people are likely to pay for a vehicle from it.

In other words, I thought you paid a normal market price for this car.

I guess I was wrong on all three counts. My appologies.

[ February 13, 2006, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: brianl703 ]

 

[windnsea00]

We have been lucky on resale for our `04 Jetta TDI wagon...we have had it 15 months and put on 40k miles and are in the process of selling it. So far I have had offers for more than we paid for it originally

 

[brianl703]

BTW, JD Power ratings on 2002 vehicles are here:

http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005089

I notice that VW is ahead of only Mini, Land Rover, and Kia.

The long-term reliability ratings are here:

http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/volkswagen/passat/100003491/ratings_jdpower.html

2 out of 5 Mechanical Dependability, Body & Interior Dependability and Feature and Accessory Dependability. Not looking good.

 

[thooks]

quote:

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quote:
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A car is a huge purchase and I want reliability and low depreciation. Getting upside down on a car loan is something that can be avoided or at least minimilized by buying a Toyota or Honda.
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Ridiculous, IMO. If you have to worry about being upside down in a car loan, this means that you plan to sell the car while you still have the loan... if you were keeping the car, it wouldnt matter if you were upside down or not.

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I think he was meaning the enormous drop in value of a Ford/GM/D-C versus a Honda/Toyota.

Example:

I see in the paper where the local GM dealer is trying to sell 2005 Buick LeSabres for $15,200. MSRP on them was $32,000. One year old and it's lost 55% of it's value.

We bought a 2005 Honda Accord in August for $22,995. Sticker was $25,700. Black book value is about $20,500, since it has 8,000 miles.

Make sense?

 

[brianl703]

I see a bit of a parallel with the people who worry about the depreciation on their car and the people who hope the appreciation on their house continues at the 25% per year it is in some places. In both cases I wonder if they stretched a little too far to buy them. (FWIW, it matters not one bit--except for the increased property taxes--to me how much my house is worth compared to what I paid for it).

 

[JHZR2]

agreed... well said.

Other than the fact that IMO one can get far more royally screwed with cars than homes... I think of my situation with my pristine 83 MB 300D turbodiesel... So the whole bit about wrecked cars, insurance, etc. is a good point.

JMH

 

[DaveInLA]

Me, probably not. I realize that the reliability of American cars has really made strides in recent years, but the perception hasn't caught up, and I have a hard time getting over that. Besides, I'm happy with my foreign cars (I own a 2002 Nissan and 1989 BMW), so there's no reason to look for American vehicles.

My family's only experience with an American car was my Dad's 1986 Chevy Celebrity back in the late 1980s-early 90s when I was a kid... biggest *** ever. I can't believe a car only a few years old would have all the problems it did. Unreal.

Also, the vast majority of American designs don't appeal to me. Only a handful of American cars are attractive to me-- Cadillac CTS, Ford Mustang (this is the first Mustang I've liked), Dodge Charger, Jeep Liberty. I think that's about it. And the Ford GT, if I can even include that.