So I compete in hillclimb events in my 2019 VW GTI. I am running a VW 508 compliant 0W-20 oil (Total Quartz) to comply with warranty requirements. During today's event oil temps were at 252F at the finish line. It gradually cools to 235F or so while idling waiting to run back down the hill. The oil has about 2500 miles on it. Anything to worry about here?
How hot is too hot for motor oil
- Thread starter tom in boise
- Start date
- Status
Hey, if your doing hillclimb events with what your running, I wouldn't really worry much about it.
In regards to coolant I believe vw does recommend if you are operating their engines in hotter temperatures to dilute the coolant with the latest concentrate, but they are not saying to not run 50/50 in hot weather.
If i can find the mixing chart for hot weather I'll let you know, but its I believe its like around cup per gallon.
In regards to coolant I believe vw does recommend if you are operating their engines in hotter temperatures to dilute the coolant with the latest concentrate, but they are not saying to not run 50/50 in hot weather.
If i can find the mixing chart for hot weather I'll let you know, but its I believe its like around cup per gallon.
if anything, if you're using it in a motorsports capacity, more frequent oil changes. if not both before and after a "track day" at least after (or before you do another day)
some manufacturers have a different oil recommendation for Motorsport vs street use. EX: ford on some of the higher strung mustangs recommend 5w20 for the street, and 5w50 for the track.
some manufacturers have a different oil recommendation for Motorsport vs street use. EX: ford on some of the higher strung mustangs recommend 5w20 for the street, and 5w50 for the track.
There are a few charts around that show the engine oil viscosity as a function of temperature. You need to decide what kinematic viscosity your manufacturer intended for you to run. For that you need the “ normal” oil temperature at “ normal” normal operating conditions, such as driving down the highway. What is yours? Once you have that, look up your actual kinematic viscosity at 252 degrees F and decide if that’s where you want it to be. If it were me I would not run a 0w20 oil at 252 degrees.
Last edited:
I don't know much about Total Quartz oil, but I personally wouldn't be worried about it at those temps. I would just change it more often than would be typical for that engine and oil.
Get in touch with @High Performance Lubricants as they make a PCMO that's GDI compliant with stout HTHS numbers and a good bit of friction modifier to boot. Also, racing is kinda their thing as they are very involved in engine oils and other lubricants for Sprint cars and other racing fields.
Get in touch with @High Performance Lubricants as they make a PCMO that's GDI compliant with stout HTHS numbers and a good bit of friction modifier to boot. Also, racing is kinda their thing as they are very involved in engine oils and other lubricants for Sprint cars and other racing fields.
Pretty sure he voided his warranty anyway. Probably says in the fine print about no warranty if car is used for racing.
Of course it does. Folks worrying about the nearly zero probability of both a 1) lubrication-related failure and 2) VW figuring out/caring that you used another VW-approved oil (502 most likely). A hill climb event effectively nixed any powertrain warranty claims but again, how would they know? If you are beating on your GTI, using a more stout oil would be the recommendation. Plenty of good Euro oils out there better suited for this that will work perfectly with that EA888 Gen 3 2.0.
The engine computer records events that might cause engine failure such as a 10,000 rpm downshift or driving while overheated. Not hard to put two and two together. VW denies warranty claims all the time when they find the engine was tuned even though it's back to stock at the time. Not a stretch that they would do it here.
And there is a dye in VW 508 as well so they need virtually no effort to see what's in there. That said if you were letting the dealer do the changes and you asked for a thicker grade I'd wager they'd put it in there without so much as batting an eye.
Your warranty is probably in jeopardy due to your use, so don't leave the engine in danger as well. Get a 40 grade Euro oil in there ASAP.
Your warranty is probably in jeopardy due to your use, so don't leave the engine in danger as well. Get a 40 grade Euro oil in there ASAP.
The car comes with a built in lap timer, so it's not like VW didn't think that people will track these things. Although I am sure that there is plenty of fine print to cover all possibilities.
Would 0W-40 Porsche C40 or 5w30 C30 oil, for instance the Mobil 1 0W-40 Euro oil or 5w30 ESP oil be good choices? How about mixing 50/50 with the 508 0W-20 and C40 0W-40?
Would 0W-40 Porsche C40 or 5w30 C30 oil, for instance the Mobil 1 0W-40 Euro oil or 5w30 ESP oil be good choices? How about mixing 50/50 with the 508 0W-20 and C40 0W-40?
Why not go 504 spec if you want to mix? You can get a stout oil with that spec. It will have lower SA as well that way
no need to run the 508 for that kind of application. Many people who buy a GTI aren’t ever pushing the oil temps or RPMs
no need to run the 508 for that kind of application. Many people who buy a GTI aren’t ever pushing the oil temps or RPMs
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
Yes, of course, there is.
0W20 is only to bump your mpg.
You are at a higher altitude, that is where things go bad as fastest as possible. Altitude is by far most challenging for cooling.
1. Run XW40 at least. Something that has Porsche A40 approval. Castrol 0W40, Mobil 1 0W40, Mobil 1 5W40FS.
2. Dilute coolant to less than 50%. I do track days at HPR which is at 5,000ft and I kept coolant around 40% to 60% water.
3. You compete? Get yourself stout air to fluid oil cooler (radiator)! Now, since you compete you might consider racing specific oils to have as least parasitic drag as possible. Motul 5W40 300V would be good. Once you install oil cooler you might go Motul 5W30 300V.
While an oil temp of 235°F = 113°C is pretty normal for this kind of engine, 252°F = 122°C certainly isn't.
That's pretty close to where the ECU will start to cut some power and that's for a reason (it's somewhere
in the 120s°C I'm pretty sure). Oil temps that high along with high revs will likely affect the engine's life
expectancy in some way. So yes, that's a reason I'd worry about. As a consequence two things are required:
- bring down the temperatures >> alter coolant mix ratio >> use 35 % anti-freeze & 65 % distilled water
- change both engine and gear oil >> use a more stout engine oil (VW 504 00 5w30 or VW 511 00 5W-40)
Use either VW G13 or G12evo and distilled water only:
35 % anti-freeze & 65 % distilled water >> -20°C frost protection
40 % anti-freeze & 60 % distilled water >> -25°C frost protection
If required change coolant before and after winter. In any case change coolant frequently (3 - 5 years)
if you run a reduced anti-freeze content since anti-freeze also provides corrosion protection and less
anti-freeze won't provide sufficient corrosion protection that long as 50/50 mix would.
Btw., is your GTI stock? Is it DSG or manual? The very first and preferably very early gear oil change is
the most important one, no matter if you have a manual or a DSG transmission.
While more frequent oil changes are a good thing, they won't help much in this case.
I think oil oxidation and wear metals are not the issue here, it's MOFT and temperature.
This isn't a race car, it isn't even a track day car. VW never made any recommendations for this duty.
This lap timer is a gimmick without any meaning.
Yes, both Porsche C30 5w30 (equivalent to VW 504 00) and Porsche C40 5W-40 (VW 511 00) are
excellent choices and by far better suited for this purpose. I'd recommend two oils in particular:
- Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 (VW 504 00, MB 229.51, 229.52, Porsche C30)
- Ravenol RUP 5W-40 (VW 511 00, BMW LL-04, MB 229.51, Porsche A40, not C40)
Please don't mix different grades, there's no need to. Choose between either 5w30 or 5W-40 or
use one in the winter and one in the summer season. I'd suggest to start with the reduced anti-
freeze and 5w30 VW 504 00/Porsche C30 oil and see what oil temps you get with this. They'll be
lower, that's quite certain. If it isn't sufficient you could try 5W-40 VW 511 00/Porsche A40/C40
next. Mentioned approvals are very demanding resulting in stout oils. Of course there are other
oils out there meeting the same approvals, however that's what I would run in your case. Mobil 1
and Ravenol's racing line are both very high quality and come along with reputable approvals.
I agree on very most posts made in this discussion. It's more important to protect the engine and
to avoid engine defects over warranty concerns since racing it already voids the warranty. I'm sorry
to say that, but if you really neet to retain your warranty you'd need to stop racing.
.
That's because a tune (and a return to stock) adds to the flash counter in the ECM.
Sprited or high performance driving is not easily identified unless there is a money shift or other signs of abuse like a nuked clutch.
I realize the lap timer is a joke in this car. Impossible to use in the first place.
Anyway, thanks for the good advice. This car gets used at autocross, trackcross and hill climb events. Probably 250 runs per year (two sets of tires per year so far). I bought it new specifically to compete in a certain SCCA street class with limited mods. It now has about 12500 miles on it. 6 speed manual trans.
I think I will switch to a Mobil 1 ESP C30 0w30 oil for the competition season (March to October in my area) and use up the rest of my 0W-20 over the winter. Any comments on the 0w30 vs 5w30?
I need to drain and fill the trans - any recommendations there?
Anyway, thanks for the good advice. This car gets used at autocross, trackcross and hill climb events. Probably 250 runs per year (two sets of tires per year so far). I bought it new specifically to compete in a certain SCCA street class with limited mods. It now has about 12500 miles on it. 6 speed manual trans.
I think I will switch to a Mobil 1 ESP C30 0w30 oil for the competition season (March to October in my area) and use up the rest of my 0W-20 over the winter. Any comments on the 0w30 vs 5w30?
I need to drain and fill the trans - any recommendations there?
Last edited:
I'd prefer Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 over Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30. Both are excellent oils, but ESP 5w30 has lower Noack,
which any EA888 3G (like most Turbo DI engines) will appreciate, and it's even better reputation on this forum.
Don't miss to change coolant mix ratio, as it's very effective in improving cooling, since water has much greater
thermal capacity compared to glycol, and it's also unbeatably cost efficient. One gallon of destilled water is like
$1.50 or so. Audi does it, virtually any pro racing team does it.
which any EA888 3G (like most Turbo DI engines) will appreciate, and it's even better reputation on this forum.
Don't miss to change coolant mix ratio, as it's very effective in improving cooling, since water has much greater
thermal capacity compared to glycol, and it's also unbeatably cost efficient. One gallon of destilled water is like
$1.50 or so. Audi does it, virtually any pro racing team does it.
Attachments
Gotcha - ordered a case of the 5w30. Will look at the cooling system info.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
Ok, I will rain on this decision.
you are competing, forget C3 oils. You want as much ZDDP here as possible. High-SAPS oils are way to go: VW502.00, Porsche A40.
But even that on a side, I personally would run track specific oil. I mean you are doing 250 events a year? Street oil doesn’t have role there. You want specific oils that have a lot of esters to provide lower KV100 but still very robust HTHS and in case that fails, lots of ZDDP as last line of defense.
IMO, Motul 300V, Mobil 1 Racing, Redline 5W30 or 5W40.
In case this is expensive, Castrol 0W40, Mobil 1 0W40 or 5W40FS.
250 runs, not 250 events. A run is anywhere from 40 seconds - 2 minutes.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
