How has GM stayed in business so long?

[Al]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kernel Potter:
Just your average 18 year old, 200,000 mile European car that needed nothing more than a valve cover gasket over its entire life.

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"Not one German brand made it into 'best' or 'good' categories in the new Which? car reliability survey*, the UK's largest and most robust guide to the reliability of new and used cars, previewed in Which? today (Thursday 7 August 2003)."

http://www.which.net/media/pr/aug03/which/cars.html

 

[Steve S]

The new euro cars aren't as good as the older ones the new bimmers are weak compared to the late 60 to 70's. I had a few friends who owned 2002 bmw's "the model" and they were robust went fast handeled great and stood up to the abuse that early 20 year olds could give them. I don't think any of the newer cars are worth getting excited about . IMO American cars are good cars made cheap. the Japanese cars are cheap cars made good and the euro cars are expensive for what they are.

 

[joatmon]

Well, in regards to the topic: "How has GM stayed in business so long?", I say it's because of the competition.

I went to buy a new SUV 15 months ago. I went to Chevy. Nice saleslady, no pressure. You can really get a large GM SUV about anyway you want it.

I went to a Toyota dealership when I purchased a vehicle 6 years earlier. They talked about the SUVs, but I wasn't offered a test drive and it was obvious they didn't want to give a test drive.

I went to an Acura dealership, and I thought the mention of the fact that I had owned 2 Acuras would let them know that I'm serious. Well, the salesman kept his eye peeled to the door a new customer as he answered my questions. Again, no test drive offered.

OK, off to another Toyota dealership. They wanted me to "select" a car before they would show me a car or even talk about a car. Well, I finally guessed at the equipment I wanted and was given a test drive. Now, they told me that DVDs were rare and they would be doing me a favor to "find" one for me. Oh, and every unit have "VIN # etching, something I've got to have. When I mention that I had looked at a Suburban, The salesman left and came back with some facts about the Suburban, some which were outright lies. Then they introduced me to the "closer" and his "What would it take ..." routine. Well, I said, "take a good, long look at me, cause you'll never see me here again."

Well, I went back to Chevy, found a Suburban with the exact options I wanted, got a decent price with no haggling, and drove away happy. 20k miles later, I'm still happy. I'd rate this vehicle an A- or B+. Very good, but room for improvement.

GM, thank your competition. They are keeping you in the ball game.

Just my experience and opinion,

Jack

 

[Audi Junkie]

"Not one German brand made it into 'best' or 'good' categories"

Am I correct in saying that the US does not export any cars? That is, there is no market for them outside the USA. GM spent X$Billion to re-tool RHD and try and sell Saturns in Japan. They sold like 9 cars.

Lets' compare apples to apples. My 1987 Audi Coupe GT was $14k new, same as moms' old '87 Accord. The Accord is long gone and you see few on the road, if I bought the CGT new for $14k, it would have been a great value...hardly a "status symbol". Yes, it is original TB/WP/RAD/Alt/WheelBearings/Clutch. Maybe a new door handle and some tie-rods replaced too, everything works on the digital dash..trip computer too.

Also, the black Audi we just got is original paint, Audi has the best in the business.

Here is how I explain Euro car value to people...take 2 cars of $2000 value running, ok condition. One a Volvo and one a Tempo. Now, both need a $2000 transmission. Obviously you scrap the crappy old Tempo and with the Volvo you do the trans. The Volvo will still look/run/drive well and have up-to-date safety. Can't say that about the Tempo.

Post some current pics of the $14k domestics, 1987 Grand Am or whatever.

All I wanted to know is if these American beaters get suspension work because all cars benefit from it and MOST I see look like they need it. Obviously, BitOG members are not the ones to ask about their OWN cars because we all know what is up. Sorry about mixing the issues.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by Audi Junkie:
Post some current pics of the $14k domestics, 1987 Grand Am or whatever.

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My Mustang was $12,500 new. Blue book on it is $2300 or so. Would you like a picture?

No, wait, never mind, I don't count because I'm on BITOG and take better care of my car than average.

Well, if you're going to be so selective of what examples of 17-20 year old domestics you consider to be representative, I suspect you can find all the evidence you need to support your conclusion at the nearest low-income housing project.

 

[motorguy222]

quote:

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Originally posted by Audi Junkie:
Here is how I explain Euro car value to people...take 2 cars of $2000 value running, ok condition. One a Volvo and one a Tempo. Now, both need a $2000 transmission. Obviously you scrap the crappy old Tempo and with the Volvo you do the trans. The Volvo will still look/run/drive well and have up-to-date safety. Can't say that about the Tempo.

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I own a 93 2-door Tempo,it has 164,000+ miles on it.

It has had no major mechanical work done to it.

It is in need of a trans rebuild.The rebuild was quoted at $400.00.This includes the shop coming and picking it up.

Now,considering the shape that the car is in,four hundred dollars would be worth it.

As I long as I drove it,it ran great and got really good gas mileage.It had good power and smooth but responsive ride.

The Tempo has the 2.3 liter four with a timing chain,it is not an over head cam version.

All auto makers have there good and bad,all of them.

However,it really comes down to how they are
maintained.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by motorguy222:
Now,considering the shape that the car is in,four hundred dollars would be worth it.

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If a four-hundred dollar repair only makes that car last another 4 months, you've saved money (compared to financing another car, anyway).

 

[motorguy222]

Actually,the car is in really good shape,as good if not better than you may find on a used car lot.

It didnt use any oil between changes and ran real smooth.

Four hundred dollars would be a good investment in this car.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Labman, I do not know what a Caviler used to cost I do not even know what the Cobalt costs. I am preety sure though that they are both easily as expensive as my Camry!! I paid $17,000 for a brand new Camry. It is a roomy 4 door that fits me, my wife and three car seats. My trunk will swallow more cargo then my 1997 Buick LaSaber. This is before I fold the rear seats down mind you! It out handles my LaSaber and ride better as well. It is quite in side and has really comfortable seats! I can easily get in and out of my Camry while my much larger LaSaber is diffacult for me to get in and out of due to very poor seat and steering wheel positioning!

Everything on my Camry is better the heat, ac, radio performance, NVH, seating, cargo capacity etc......

For $17,000 dollars it exceeds my LaSaber Custom in every area and offers the exact same content includeing power seats. I also got Forged Rods, Forged Pistons,Forged Crankshaft, DOHC, Cam Phaseing VVT-i, cast in liners, magnesium valve cover, coil on inginition,4 valves per cylinder iridium plugs etc... It is the leader in it class for something like 12-13 years for $17,000 new!!

Now I can not imagine how cheated I would fill if I paid $17,000 for a Cobalt or a Caviler even if it had leather seats,mag rims, XM radio and onstar.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
$17,000 for a Cobalt or a Caviler

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A couple of months ago you could get a Cavalier for $10,000 or so (with the rebate and cash back deals).


$10,000 buys you a 3-year-old Camry with 30,000 miles on it--maybe.

 

[labman]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
Labman, I do not know what a Caviler used to cost I do not even know what the Cobalt costs. I am preety sure though that they are both easily as expensive as my Camry!! I paid $17,000 for a brand new Camry.snip....

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Get back with me when you have 60,000 miles on it with no repairs, and no service except oil changes.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by motorguy222:
Four hundred dollars would be a good investment in this car.

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I can't think of many cars where four hundred dollars would be a bad investment. That's only a car payment or two.

 

[labman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Audi Junkie:
snip....

Also, the black Audi we just got is original paint, Audi has the best in the business.

snip...

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Not a stone chip, scratch or door ding in 10 years?

 

[Audi Junkie]

It's essentially ding-less and there are definately stone chips. What is missing is white over-wax and swirls from automatic car washes and "buffing". The guy was no car junkie, but it still looked this good. My lil cousin is quite excited and is ready to apply real detailing methods and processes to it. BTW- the owner got a 2005 Audi...black. Too bad it's water-based paint now.

 

[BatmanLS1]

Random thoughts...

Why does it seem that foreign car owners seemingly attack the quality of domestics and always site some past car they owned? Some of the reasons seem weak. Most pro-domestic car owners tend to just defend what we own as being decent and reliable. I don't go out of my way to bash foreign cars, but I have examples...as we all do.

Let's see...friends Limited Foreigner (4 Runner)...what a piece...it's had every engine accessory replaced. Not even 100K. Slow to boot. Uncle's Camry, whole car replaced due to numerous repairs. No experience with Hondas. But, I wouldn't start a post bashing these companies/cars. There's plenty of working examples on the road. Although, I really never see an older Camry or Accord on the roads anymore.

Why does Consumer Reports take an exact same piece of information (ie, gas mileage) and say "Outstanding" for the *** . car and "Acceptable" for the domestic..when the cars compete head-to-head?

Do mainsteam Japanese cars actually make enough torque to break any of their drivetrain components?

I have only owned domestics, all brands and types. I have never visited a mechanic for these vehicles save maybe a non-serious recall. Non safety related.

Why has my wife's various VW cars spent so much time in the shop? Why does my parents' Audi consistently go there too?

 

[Doug C]

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I see probly 20 leaking intake manifolds a week on GM cars/trucks.

Why do people keep buying this GM junk?

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Chris142, I am guessing that you are a mechanic. What would you be doing if you had no vehicles to repair?

I'd call it job security.

Cheers, Doug