How has GM stayed in business so long?

[Pablo]

GM has a place. Sure some of their cars are rubbish. But the flagship 'vette (CORvette) says it best. A$$ kicking chick magnet for low cash......

The only GM I owned from new was an 88 S-10 Blazer - what a piece of work!

 

[DJ]

Another HUGE part of this is the owner, an in-law recently went from being about the top tech at a Lincoln dealer to going to work at a Volvo, Jag, Lexus, Land Rover shop. One thing he was impressed with is when the manual says that at 100K your Volvo needs a $1500 maitnenence package the owners actually bring the car in for it. As you already started into most domestic owners don't maintain their cars atall, much less are willing to spend that kind of cash on upkeep, heck most wont spend that much on a repair.

 

[labman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Audi Junkie:
Question for you guys with high mileage low end domestic cars, do you ever put shocks on or revamp the suspension? snip... I must be missing something.

---

Well it certainly isn't arrogance. Perhaps logic? You knock Cavaliers because they are not a reliable as cars costing 3 times as much? Its cartridge oil filter is easier to change than a spin on, instead of the PITA's on some Euros.

I eventually changed the shocks or struts on almost everything I ever owned, my Grand Am, my daughter's Beretta, my Phoenix, Valiant, and 57 Chevy. All reasonable little cars that were still giving reliable service and in good repair well over 100K.

I remember my wife's uncle having a new diesel VW Rabbit when my Grand Am was new. It was much more expensive, much poorer performance, less comfortable to ride in, no better handling, and not that much better mileage. I can replace a lot of wheel bearings and coil packs for $10,000. The Grand Am had a nicer interior too.

 

[Al]

I've always been a GM person. The History of GM is that they built the best cars in the U.S up to the 80's. Then came the bad fron't wheel drive auto transmission disaster which put a hurt on them.

The Coolant leak in the 3.1/3.4 rivals that disaster. These two screw-ups have done a lot to damage GM's reputation. I'll never (probably) buy another GM. That's not logical thinking though. But when you get screwed badly its easy to think that way.

 

[kenw]

quote:

---

Originally posted by cryptokid:

quote:

---

Topic: How has GM stayed in business so long?

---

lies, more lies, false advertising, and advertising trickery.

same way all american company stay in buisness. they have to be dishonest inorder to try and compete with the superrior super powers from the east.

---

woah, nice to know bigotry is alive and well....

GM is a very large company and will be around longer than most of us. Large ships take a long time to turn, large companies need a long time to change.

Most blind-faith supporters of "Japanese" superiority in this area usually aren't old enough to remember the original Japanese imports. Bonafide junk. No rustproofing, sheetmetal deburring or serviceability. Underpowered deathtraps, they made the Pinto look safe and the VW Beetle look fast. Truly disposable cars.

and fwiw, most of those espousing this claptrap aren't even Japanese.....

How many 40 year old Toyotas are driving the streets of the USA today? %-wise, I'd bet on the GM car, as rough as it may be, outlasting the same-era Japanese car. Things changed, and will continue to do so...

The Japanese companies were MUCH smaller, and thru direct Japanese government efforts, changed their entire focus. Historians will also point to external infuences such as the US economic slowdown, the oil embargo and other things as fortuitous for the Japanese makers at that time.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Audi Junkie:
When I go to look at a 20 y/o Euro car for sale, pretty much 7-8 out of 10 are presentable.

---

I suppose that's because a 20 year-old Euro car still has snob appeal.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Good discussion. I think the BitOG guys are a-typical when it comes to service. I'm sure we all present a pretty good ride, and I'd road trip with anyone here. I guess I was refering to average owners care of low-end domestics. You gotta admit, lots of these owners would not even know if you took the shocks off their car! So many models from the 80s and 90s are non-existant now, I can't think of them all..some are Japanese too:
Pulsar
Daytona
Citation
LeMans
Dynasty
Starion
Tempo
even Accords are missing from the roads after 20 years of service.

For all these cars that were sold in big numbers, few are on the road in even decent condition. When I go to look at a 20 y/o Euro car for sale, pretty much 7-8 out of 10 are presentable.

Anyway, can we really compare a Cutlass Cierra to a 325i?

That is the core of the discussion.

 

[mechtech]

How does GM stay in business?
I believe Mr. Tucker could tell you!

 

[Audi Junkie]

I purchased a 10 year old car for my lil cousin today: Condition speaks for itself and it already had some new...struts!


link to pic

http://www.nahum.org/90quattro/


Let's see some pics of clean 1995 domestics for comparision. You can start here:

http://www.beaterz.com

Tempo
Intrepid
Cierra
Sunbird
Pontiac 6000
Escort
LeBaron
Beretta
???

A fine example of GM paint...

http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/27563/beretta_paint.jpg

PS I have no respect for members who try to spin a cold, rational discussion about mechanicals into a lame social statment. Yeah, if your'e not willing to ride in a rust-bucket, your'e a snob.

[ February 28, 2005, 05:13 AM: Message edited by: rugerman1 ]

 

[Audi Junkie]

Beretta link above is no good.

http://forums.audiworld.com/detail/msgs/33101.phtml

 

[Kernel Potter]

Quoted by Audie Junkie:

quote:

---

Question for you guys with high mileage low end domestic cars, do you ever put shocks on or revamp the suspension? I wonder, because these car look pretty feeble and don't seem like they ever get freshened up...at all. I mean, yeah...they run but they don't seem really pleasing to drive. How about the interior or paint? Nobody seems to restore Citations or K-cars??? I drive an 18 year old 200k Euro car almost every day and it is still: shiny, smooth, quiet, tight, fast, rust-free, everything works and the inside is perfect with the exception of slightly wilted velour. It burns 1q of GC in 10,000 miles. Original clutch, alt, timing belt, water pump, wheel bearings, and only ever had a valve cover gasket on the engine. I re-did the front shocks and mounts and it got a starter. Really, I don't mean to offend, but the cars speak for themselves. The domestics seem to offer the lowest possible level service. For instance, Cavalier safety is non-existant. Do people with these cars have experience with many Asian or Euro cars? I could not go around in one of them and it's not simply an economic issue, some cars just last longer and command better serviceing. GM is really the Bo-Bo of automobiles, imo. PS it took a bad batch of 2 million coil-packs for US cars to get a better "satisfaction" rating than Euros. All things being the same, who would take an Intrepid over a BMW 325? [I dont know] I must be missing something.

---

Just your average 18 year old, 200,000 mile European car that needed nothing more than a valve cover gasket over its entire life. What world are you living in Audi Junkie? It sure as h e l l isn't Earth!!!

I know about 2 dozen people restoring 1979 VW Rabbits

Oh and about a 1/2 a dozen people resoring 1976 Audi Foxs'

 

[Pablo]

I think a timely article from Feb 28, 2005 BARON'S may be worth finding and reading.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Audi Junkie:
PS I have no respect for members who try to spin a cold, rational discussion about mechanicals into a lame social statment. Yeah, if your'e not willing to ride in a rust-bucket, your'e a snob.

---

Ok, let me put it another way:

The 20-year-old Euro car still has a fairly high residual value--which is due to the snob appeal that it has. Sorry if you don't like the truth.

EDIT (pointing out the obvious, just in case): Most people are not going to make expensive repairs or maintenance to a car that has a low residual value.

[ February 28, 2005, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: brianl703 ]

 

[Cutehumor]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Audi Junkie:
It burns 1q of GC in 10,000 miles. Original clutch, alt, timing belt, water pump, wheel bearings, and only ever had a valve cover gasket on the engine.

---

18 yrs and 200k on the original timing belt?

 

[labman]

http://www.nahum.org/90quattro/img_1558.jpg

Yeah, the original paint?

 

[brianl703]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Audi Junkie:
Yeah, if your'e not willing to ride in a rust-bucket, your'e a snob.

---

You're not a snob for not willing to ride in a rust-bucket.

You're a snob for thinking that domestic cars are rustbuckets.

 

[Al]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Steve S:
the Japanese cars are cheap cars made good.

---

Have you priced any Japanese Cars lately??

 

[rpn453]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Audi Junkie:
Question for you guys with high mileage low end domestic cars, do you ever put shocks on or revamp the suspension? I wonder, because these car look pretty feeble and don't seem like they ever get freshened up...at all. I mean, yeah...they run but they don't seem really pleasing to drive.

---

I put new struts, ball joints, and tie-rod ends on my '87 Grand Am at about 250,000km. Total cost was about cdn$300. A girl I worked with borrowed my car and was absolutely floored at how much nicer it drove (handling and suspension) and how much more power it had than her '89 Corolla (which she paid 4 times as much for).
Also, one of the 4 people in our car pool had an '02 Corolla, and the other 2 agreed with me that my Grand Am was a much nicer car to ride in than that one too!
My buddy had an '87 Legend with similar mileage and, while you could tell it was a far superior car when new, my car was in way better mechanical condition and much nicer to drive since I'd actually done maintenance on it. It was decent for a cheap old car. Other than that car though, I haven't driven any GM, Ford, or Chrysler vehicles of that time period that I want to drive again.

 

[keith]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Audi Junkie:
It burns 1q of GC in 10,000 miles.

---

Big deal. My low miles Cadillac STS burns 1 qt. every 1000 miles

I used to rent a lot of cars, and always dreaded getting a low to mid range GM. For various reasons (handling, noise, braking, comfort, ...) they didn't impress me at all. The high mid range and above cars seemed to be decent, but value for the dollar is shrinking there no matter which manufacturer you look at.

If I had to buy a car now, I don't know what I'd get. I'd really like to get a diesel, but the choices are limited.

 

[kenw]

it is somewhat misleading to use resale value to measure quality, although it's an easy if flawed ruler.

Resale value is based on PERCEPTION of the used car buyer, not exactly the most scientific bunch out there. Their perception is based on a very large sample of data taken over a very long time with lots of bad data, misinformation, emotion and hearsay.

Toyotas have a high resale simply because people are more willing to buy a used one than a used whatever. Is it necessarily better? No, but perception is virtually impossible for the masses to overcome.

It has taken years for GM to improve their quality, but it will take many more for opinions and perceptions to catch up to that reality. But it will.