Another GM cooling system disaster

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Those are some of my favorite work orders- the ones that say "No Warranty" at the top. Lets you be creative without worrying much about the consequences. As long as it makes it out the door and down the road, it's good.
 
Originally Posted By: benjamming
Ah I see now. I thought you had pulled the lower intake already anyway. So, book time is 7 hours to replace the intake manifold gaskets?
The lower ones yes. Book time for the upper is 3 but I did it in about 1 so we adjusted the time accordingly.
 
Adjusted time? DOWN?!?

And you call yourself a mechanic...
33.gif



There's GOT to be some ASE rule against this.
 
The total book time is 10 hours then for this engine? Wow. I didn't do too bad then especially with the few hours of cleaning that I did & it was the 1st one I did.
 
Originally Posted By: benjamming
The total book time is 10 hours then for this engine? Wow. I didn't do too bad then especially with the few hours of cleaning that I did & it was the 1st one I did.


I think he means that book time is about 7 hours for the whole LIM gasket job- or only 3 hours for the upper intake (which DOES seem like a bit much for the upper intake).

So it's either 7 or 3, depending on how deep you go. Not 7+3.
 
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Kudos, Chris142.

I respect a mechanic that has ingenuity to make something work other than replacing the entire system. Yea, maybe false economics in the long run, but we don't know the owner's intentions here.

I've taken a leaky exhaust system to Midas or Tuffy only to be told that a total system replacement was mandatory at $600. Take it to a good mechanic and he says he can weld in a replacement section for $80 and it should last for another 2 years +/-.

Chris, I assume that you document the customer's wishes on the receipt!
+2-that is MAJOR, big time CYA city!!!
 
If it where my car I would take that manifold off and see if I could re-engineer things! I have gotten good at fixing GM screw-ups since I bought the wife a Buick!I would see if I could machine the area where that pipe is in the manifold to accecpt some type of pipe fitting or AN fitting. I would then run a better by pass. I might also tap the heads for reverse cooling while I was in their!LOL

Toyota had a pipe like that on the 22RE but it was easily replaceable. It bolted onto the engine front and back with a flange and two bolts on each end. They where just just cheap tubing with cheap black eneamel paint on them. So when they rusted you just unbolted them got another one and bolted it in place with fresh gaskets. Not at all a hard engineering project but they got it right.

GM did a lot of stupid stuff like this they had fuel rails onthe North star and the mini North Star V6 that had cheap steel tubing and cheaper plastic lines. They where commonly rusted out or the plastic cracked right out of waranty.The only place to get the part was GM and if they discountiued it you where screwed you would have to come up with a fix that was more like what Hot Rodder's ahve to do when building a injection system from scratch! Absolutely pathetic design! Same thing with gaskets the N. Star's have been plaged by leaking gaskets and too many gaskets since day one!

It is pretty much common knoldge that GM starts with a good design and then finds a way to ruin it with cheap gasket's, cheaper then origanal design elements,poor outsources of critical designs elements like water pumps etc........They often reinvent the wheel for no good reason. THey have so much turn over and higher so many non-car guys that they often repeat mistakes fromt he past that if they hired car guys would not happen. Many of the engineers working for them have almost no knoldge of their past inovations or their past failures!I saw this go on year in and year out for 7 years!
 
One other thing I should mention. When you are working on GM vehicles one thing you figure out early on is that they designed the assembly and parts to be fast and cheap for assembly not for maintenance. 9/10 of the time when something is hard to get to it is because they where not thinking about maintence and repair just assembly!
 
JB: I agree with you. GM went from "Mark of Excellence" to "Mark of Mediocrity" and they are paying for it.
Years ago a top executive at GM supposedly said "We aren't in the business of making cars, we are in the business of making money". That's a bad attitude because if you make great cars you'll maka lot of money. GM is no longer on my list when I shop for a car.
 
All brands have something stupid and it's been going on for ages.

Who's replaced a water bypass hose on a slant-6 Chrysler or a 429/460 Ford?

How about a stat on a 289? You Get to use your antiquated timing light when your done.

I just did an AC compressor on a newer (02ish) Taurus with the 3.0 pushrod engine. Had to drop the cradle to get the compressor out.

Northstar starter? GM "Hey lets put an important electrical item in the hottest spot on the engine, between the heads".

Northstar water pumps are not too bad but you simply can't replace one w/o the tool.

3.1L stats.

Gotta pull a motor mount to replace the belts on a lot of Honda's.

5.5 hrs labor to R&R a radiator on a late 90's Taurus.

List goes on and on.
 
Lists like that make me glad I mostly work on industrial/agricultural stuff. Although I have been in on some of your listed clusterfuks.

The bypass hose on a 460 Ford is simple, though. The trick is to use silicon heater hose. I've never seen it used in an automotive application, but it's common in the trucking industry. It's nice and flexible- can be easily worked in there with a cotter pin tool or something like that. I replaced one the other day.

Ever do much work on a Chevy Corsica? There's got to be room on your list for those.
 
Originally Posted By: Chris142
I try to forget the Corsica. Which GM car had the 4cyl with the cap and rotor burried behind the engine? I hated those.


I had a '88 Grand Am with that engine ("Tech 4" 2.5 L). I think it made a whopping 95 HP. Cap and rotor were in between engine and firewall. Had the car 6 years, and never touched them.

I had a '94 Grand Am 3.1 L. Bought it new, gave it to my brother with 95k Mi. LIM gaskets failed at 107k, hydrolocked one of the cylinders, trashed engine. To be honest, I saw the signs, but didn't know about the LIM gasket issue at the time. The car was pre-Dexcool.

Only part of the reason I'm now one of those "will never buy another GM" guys.
 
I notice it's only the 3.1, 3.4, and 3.8 V-6 models that have this problem with dexcool. 4 cylinders hardly ever mentioned with dexcool problems.
 
Originally Posted By: Chris142
All brands have something stupid and it's been going on for ages.

Who's replaced a water bypass hose on a slant-6 Chrysler or a 429/460 Ford?

How about a stat on a 289? You Get to use your antiquated timing light when your done.

I just did an AC compressor on a newer (02ish) Taurus with the 3.0 pushrod engine. Had to drop the cradle to get the compressor out.

Northstar starter? GM "Hey lets put an important electrical item in the hottest spot on the engine, between the heads".

Northstar water pumps are not too bad but you simply can't replace one w/o the tool.

3.1L stats.

Gotta pull a motor mount to replace the belts on a lot of Honda's.

5.5 hrs labor to R&R a radiator on a late 90's Taurus.

List goes on and on.


PS pump and/or water pump on a 4100 Cadillac.

Starter on a Northstar.

PCV valve on an early 90s Toyota v6 pickup.

I swear GM and Toyota should put "step one: remove right rear brake light" and work their way forward from there in the directions for replacing an air filter on some of their cars.
 
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