So in other words China and others should get all the work, sell all they want in the US market, block exports if they want, and Americans' wanting to work tough luck. But dumping is bad because that's the only thing that effects someone, a capitalist. I think I got it.
How Germany builds twice as many cars as the US
- Thread starter mechanicx
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I didn't say that.
I said when imports are blocked (on either side) that it's the consumer AND workers of those nations who are hurt.
Blocking imports, either by the US, China or Japan just hurts the nation blocking the imports when done on the basis of not allowing foreign competitors.
If you are blocking to prevent dumping, that's legitimate protection.
If you are blocking simply to prevent your native industries from facing competition, you only hurt yourself.
In the long run, you are better off becoming more competitive on a world stage than to simply be the best in your small patch.
Protectionism make work for a short time, but ultimately makes you weaker, not stronger.
Open markets may do the opposite. You may be weak for a short time, but ultimately you grow strong as it's become more competitive or perish.
Life is that way. If you don't learn to do something better, someone else will.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
So in other words China and others should get all the work, sell all they want in the US market, block exports if they want, and Americans' wanting to work tough luck. But dumping is bad because that's the only thing that effects someone, a capitalist. I think I got it.
I said when imports are blocked (on either side) that it's the consumer AND workers of those nations who are hurt.
Blocking imports, either by the US, China or Japan just hurts the nation blocking the imports when done on the basis of not allowing foreign competitors.
If you are blocking to prevent dumping, that's legitimate protection.
If you are blocking simply to prevent your native industries from facing competition, you only hurt yourself.
In the long run, you are better off becoming more competitive on a world stage than to simply be the best in your small patch.
Protectionism make work for a short time, but ultimately makes you weaker, not stronger.
Open markets may do the opposite. You may be weak for a short time, but ultimately you grow strong as it's become more competitive or perish.
Life is that way. If you don't learn to do something better, someone else will.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
So in other words China and others should get all the work, sell all they want in the US market, block exports if they want, and Americans' wanting to work tough luck. But dumping is bad because that's the only thing that effects someone, a capitalist. I think I got it.
This is where the court of public opinion matters.
If the consume agrees with the idea that predatory practices are taking place or matter, then they will choose not to buy.
I'm not suggesting people be stripped of their freedom to vote with their dollars. I'm simply asking that others not take away my freedom to vote with mine.
There are companies I will not do business with for a variety of reasons. Past experiences, their stand on issues, and so forth. I want the freedom to have such choices.
Trade barriers do not give me more freedom, then give less.
That's not propaganda. Do the people in China have the freedom to buy goods that are kept out of their markets by trade policies? Of course not!
So why would we take away freedoms and become more like the ChiComs by suggesting protectionist trade barriers?
If the consume agrees with the idea that predatory practices are taking place or matter, then they will choose not to buy.
I'm not suggesting people be stripped of their freedom to vote with their dollars. I'm simply asking that others not take away my freedom to vote with mine.
There are companies I will not do business with for a variety of reasons. Past experiences, their stand on issues, and so forth. I want the freedom to have such choices.
Trade barriers do not give me more freedom, then give less.
That's not propaganda. Do the people in China have the freedom to buy goods that are kept out of their markets by trade policies? Of course not!
So why would we take away freedoms and become more like the ChiComs by suggesting protectionist trade barriers?
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: pbm
Does Germany have any kind of 'affirmative action' programs.....to make up for WW2?
WW2? That was almost 70 years ago. Does the US have any for the civil war?
Leave WW2 where it belongs, in the past. Neither my parents, i or any German born after 1924 had anything to do with it.
I (nor my european immigrant parents) didn't have anything to do with slavery and yet many Americans feel I (and my children) should pay for it....
Originally Posted By: pbm
Does Germany have any kind of 'affirmative action' programs.....to make up for WW2?
WW2? That was almost 70 years ago. Does the US have any for the civil war?
Leave WW2 where it belongs, in the past. Neither my parents, i or any German born after 1924 had anything to do with it.
I (nor my european immigrant parents) didn't have anything to do with slavery and yet many Americans feel I (and my children) should pay for it....
Those are just platitudes, "competition", doing things "better". What you are really saying is less jobs and working harder for less. Chinese workers are not better than US workers. Transplant workers are not better than UAW ones. Lower paid VW, BMW workers in the US south are not better than the higher paid workers in Germany. Producing engines in Mexico is not "better". Outsourced engineering isn't better.
Trade and competition on a level playing feild can be a good thing though. But what we are really talking about here is cheaper labor and cutting costs, nothing else. And until an American freely move, live work and buy property in other countries and exports are not restricted as it the case within the US, then it's not really trade or free market.
Trade and competition on a level playing feild can be a good thing though. But what we are really talking about here is cheaper labor and cutting costs, nothing else. And until an American freely move, live work and buy property in other countries and exports are not restricted as it the case within the US, then it's not really trade or free market.
Then you are having a different conversation, because I'm talking about two facts.
One, there is no level playing field. There will always be someone who has an advantage. That's the cold hard reality of life.
Two, not everyone can be the prom queen, or starting quarterback or Einstein.
I'm talking about finding where you have the competitive advantage and working it.
If that means someone else has the advantage in building cars or TV's, then we shouldn't be doing that.
There is no level playing field. So saying we should have one, or that we should work towards one is akin to wanting a pet Unicorn.
Sure, it might be cool. But both are equally likely.
We'll never agree. If you believe a level playing field is possible, and I don't, then we are not even having the same discussion.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Those are just platitudes, "competition", doing things "better". What you are really saying is less jobs and working harder for less. Chinese workers are not better than US workers. Transplant workers are not better than UAW ones. Lower paid VW, BMW workers in the US south are not better than the higher paid workers in Germany. Producing engines in Mexico is not "better". Outsourced engineering isn't better.
Trade and competition on a level playing feild can be a good thing though. But what we are really talking about here is cheaper labor and cutting costs, nothing else. And until an American freely move, live work and buy property in other countries and exports are not restricted as it the case within the US, then it's not really trade or free market.
One, there is no level playing field. There will always be someone who has an advantage. That's the cold hard reality of life.
Two, not everyone can be the prom queen, or starting quarterback or Einstein.
I'm talking about finding where you have the competitive advantage and working it.
If that means someone else has the advantage in building cars or TV's, then we shouldn't be doing that.
There is no level playing field. So saying we should have one, or that we should work towards one is akin to wanting a pet Unicorn.
Sure, it might be cool. But both are equally likely.
We'll never agree. If you believe a level playing field is possible, and I don't, then we are not even having the same discussion.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Those are just platitudes, "competition", doing things "better". What you are really saying is less jobs and working harder for less. Chinese workers are not better than US workers. Transplant workers are not better than UAW ones. Lower paid VW, BMW workers in the US south are not better than the higher paid workers in Germany. Producing engines in Mexico is not "better". Outsourced engineering isn't better.
Trade and competition on a level playing feild can be a good thing though. But what we are really talking about here is cheaper labor and cutting costs, nothing else. And until an American freely move, live work and buy property in other countries and exports are not restricted as it the case within the US, then it's not really trade or free market.
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Blocking imports, either by the US, China or Japan just hurts the nation blocking the imports when done on the basis of not allowing foreign competitors.
We have all the free trade you are talking about and look where we are.
Something isn't right, the county is in the toilet waiting to be flushed! Tax Chinese made goods regardless of the companies origin 3000% make that $8 ratchet cost $99 and lets see how many they sell.
Blocking imports, either by the US, China or Japan just hurts the nation blocking the imports when done on the basis of not allowing foreign competitors.
We have all the free trade you are talking about and look where we are.
Something isn't right, the county is in the toilet waiting to be flushed! Tax Chinese made goods regardless of the companies origin 3000% make that $8 ratchet cost $99 and lets see how many they sell.
Quote:
make that $8 ratchet cost $99 and lets see how many they sell.
So you want the people in government setting arbitrary price levels?
make that $8 ratchet cost $99 and lets see how many they sell.
So you want the people in government setting arbitrary price levels?
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
make that $8 ratchet cost $99 and lets see how many they sell.
So you want the people in government setting arbitrary price levels?
Nope because the US market will offer US made ratchets at an affordable price like it had before imports.
Quote:
make that $8 ratchet cost $99 and lets see how many they sell.
So you want the people in government setting arbitrary price levels?
Nope because the US market will offer US made ratchets at an affordable price like it had before imports.
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Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Blocking imports, either by the US, China or Japan just hurts the nation blocking the imports when done on the basis of not allowing foreign competitors.
We have all the free trade you are talking about and look where we are.
Something isn't right, the county is in the toilet waiting to be flushed! Tax Chinese made goods regardless of the companies origin 3000% make that $8 ratchet cost $99 and lets see how many they sell.
Exactly.
Something has to give in this search for the lowest common denominator and it would appear as though the living and working conditions, both financially and environmentally in North America are what are stopping us from competing with China, so they need to go right?
China's competitive advantage is in EVERY market for EVERY product. They don't respect Intellectual Property rights, the environment or value the lives of their citizens. They will do everything they can to bury their competition. THIS is what we are competing against. Billions of slave-wage citizens working for a government-run machine who's goal is to destroy their competition.
To somehow think that this is going to "sort itself out" is a complete and utter fallacy. To compete with China means that we must BE like China. I'm pretty sure I speak for every North American citizen when I say that is NOT the lifestyle I desire!
Think about it for a second. If no particular country is inherently more capable than another, then it comes down to money.... It always comes down to money. If China can produce the same quality of goods as an American company, what is the incentive to pay more for the American product? Patriotism? That hasn't seemed to work all that well in practice.
Producing things in a first-world nation costs more money. But so does living the way that we are accustomed to live. So yes, we can compete with China. We can lower our wages, drop our environmental standards and turn ourselves into a 3rd-world sweatshop so that a product stamped "USA" can be sold at the same price and make the same profit as one made in China. Because then the incentive to out-source goes away.
Is that REALLY what we want? I don't think any of us do. Then the solution seems to be not buying Chinese goods. But our fellow citizens don't appear to believe in doing that either because they want the most junk for the least amount of money. It is a fundamentally flawed thought process. You cannot sustain the standard of living we are accustomed to in the USA and Canada by shopping entirely on price. It doesn't work. The quality products flounder in the market whilst the cheap imported [censored] flies off the shelf. And then the American plant closes and everybody [censored] and whines about how evil they were and how their business model was flawed and blah blah blah. No, they failed because people stopped buying their stuff! Because the North American consumer doesn't care about COO. They SAY they do. But when it comes down to talking with their wallet, they buy the cheap imported POS, arguing that they can't "afford" the slightly more expensive item.... While typing on their brand-new $500.00 phone and sipping their Starbucks. Yeah.... I believe that.
So if consumers aren't going to police themselves, what ARE the options? What can be done to bring manufacturing home, to make Americans buy first-world goods? I say first-world because on items coming from Canada, the USA, Germany, Japan...etc. The cost to produce those items is very similar. This means that the consumer shops on the quality of the goods, rather than the PRICE of the goods. It comes down to the BEST product winning, not the CHEAPEST product.
I don't know if it is tariffs or some other form of regulation, but SOMETHING needs to be done to stop the $8.00 ratchets. To stop the $10.00 whitebox car parts. To stop the $20.00 wheel bearings. To stop the infestation of our market with this junk because people won't stop themselves from buying it. They see the price and Timken be [censored], they are buying the Chinese bearing. So something needs to be done to make the Chinese bearing cost the same as the US bearing, as the German bearing, as the Austrian, Turkish or Canadian bearing. Then, if it sells, it will be because it is good quality, not because it is priced at a fraction of the other competing products.
And to those who will argue that the market will sort itself out. So far, the results of that process are a 16 TRILLION dollar deficit growing at a rate of more than a trillion a year, soaring unemployment and golden parachutes for all of the execs. If that's success, I'd like to know what drugs have inspired that train of thought.
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Blocking imports, either by the US, China or Japan just hurts the nation blocking the imports when done on the basis of not allowing foreign competitors.
We have all the free trade you are talking about and look where we are.
Something isn't right, the county is in the toilet waiting to be flushed! Tax Chinese made goods regardless of the companies origin 3000% make that $8 ratchet cost $99 and lets see how many they sell.
Exactly.
Something has to give in this search for the lowest common denominator and it would appear as though the living and working conditions, both financially and environmentally in North America are what are stopping us from competing with China, so they need to go right?
China's competitive advantage is in EVERY market for EVERY product. They don't respect Intellectual Property rights, the environment or value the lives of their citizens. They will do everything they can to bury their competition. THIS is what we are competing against. Billions of slave-wage citizens working for a government-run machine who's goal is to destroy their competition.
To somehow think that this is going to "sort itself out" is a complete and utter fallacy. To compete with China means that we must BE like China. I'm pretty sure I speak for every North American citizen when I say that is NOT the lifestyle I desire!
Think about it for a second. If no particular country is inherently more capable than another, then it comes down to money.... It always comes down to money. If China can produce the same quality of goods as an American company, what is the incentive to pay more for the American product? Patriotism? That hasn't seemed to work all that well in practice.
Producing things in a first-world nation costs more money. But so does living the way that we are accustomed to live. So yes, we can compete with China. We can lower our wages, drop our environmental standards and turn ourselves into a 3rd-world sweatshop so that a product stamped "USA" can be sold at the same price and make the same profit as one made in China. Because then the incentive to out-source goes away.
Is that REALLY what we want? I don't think any of us do. Then the solution seems to be not buying Chinese goods. But our fellow citizens don't appear to believe in doing that either because they want the most junk for the least amount of money. It is a fundamentally flawed thought process. You cannot sustain the standard of living we are accustomed to in the USA and Canada by shopping entirely on price. It doesn't work. The quality products flounder in the market whilst the cheap imported [censored] flies off the shelf. And then the American plant closes and everybody [censored] and whines about how evil they were and how their business model was flawed and blah blah blah. No, they failed because people stopped buying their stuff! Because the North American consumer doesn't care about COO. They SAY they do. But when it comes down to talking with their wallet, they buy the cheap imported POS, arguing that they can't "afford" the slightly more expensive item.... While typing on their brand-new $500.00 phone and sipping their Starbucks. Yeah.... I believe that.
So if consumers aren't going to police themselves, what ARE the options? What can be done to bring manufacturing home, to make Americans buy first-world goods? I say first-world because on items coming from Canada, the USA, Germany, Japan...etc. The cost to produce those items is very similar. This means that the consumer shops on the quality of the goods, rather than the PRICE of the goods. It comes down to the BEST product winning, not the CHEAPEST product.
I don't know if it is tariffs or some other form of regulation, but SOMETHING needs to be done to stop the $8.00 ratchets. To stop the $10.00 whitebox car parts. To stop the $20.00 wheel bearings. To stop the infestation of our market with this junk because people won't stop themselves from buying it. They see the price and Timken be [censored], they are buying the Chinese bearing. So something needs to be done to make the Chinese bearing cost the same as the US bearing, as the German bearing, as the Austrian, Turkish or Canadian bearing. Then, if it sells, it will be because it is good quality, not because it is priced at a fraction of the other competing products.
And to those who will argue that the market will sort itself out. So far, the results of that process are a 16 TRILLION dollar deficit growing at a rate of more than a trillion a year, soaring unemployment and golden parachutes for all of the execs. If that's success, I'd like to know what drugs have inspired that train of thought.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
make that $8 ratchet cost $99 and lets see how many they sell.
So you want the people in government setting arbitrary price levels?
Nope because the US market will offer US made ratchets at an affordable price like it had before imports.
What incentive would manufactures have to supply low cost ratchets? You are limiting supply and competition. There is no reason to believe prices will go down.
Even with the current competition from imports, Snap on and other top tear offerings are very expensive.
If cheaper products are offered, they will be at or below the quality of the imports people are complaining about.
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
make that $8 ratchet cost $99 and lets see how many they sell.
So you want the people in government setting arbitrary price levels?
Nope because the US market will offer US made ratchets at an affordable price like it had before imports.
What incentive would manufactures have to supply low cost ratchets? You are limiting supply and competition. There is no reason to believe prices will go down.
Even with the current competition from imports, Snap on and other top tear offerings are very expensive.
If cheaper products are offered, they will be at or below the quality of the imports people are complaining about.
The deficit is a symptom of the problem and indicates a lack of will of the politicians to say no to the people wanting freebees, regardless their income level.
(Let's be clear on terms. The deficit is an annual thing and this year the Federal deficit is about $900 Billion give or take. The national debt is the $16 Trillion figure you cite, and that's how much the US government has borrowed. However, it understates the problem as it does not count the unfunded future entitlements. I believe corporate accounting rules require companies to list their pension and other benefits liabilities.
Only the Federal Government is allowed to keep those off the books, making their numbers look better than they really are.)
Speaking of entitlements, one of the topic mentioned here, government incentives for car companies.
And others.
The problem isn't where we buy our goods. The problem is we are so prosperous that many don't believe they have to work at all, or they should enjoy the same level of prosperity without the work needed. Or that we should be shielded from the consequences of our choices.
Combine that with the fact that others in the world want this prosperity and we'll keep seeing the same thing.
Setting up trade barriers will not change the people problem.
I think a crash has to occur before the entitlement mentality at all levels is corrected.
(Let's be clear on terms. The deficit is an annual thing and this year the Federal deficit is about $900 Billion give or take. The national debt is the $16 Trillion figure you cite, and that's how much the US government has borrowed. However, it understates the problem as it does not count the unfunded future entitlements. I believe corporate accounting rules require companies to list their pension and other benefits liabilities.
Only the Federal Government is allowed to keep those off the books, making their numbers look better than they really are.)
Speaking of entitlements, one of the topic mentioned here, government incentives for car companies.
And others.
The problem isn't where we buy our goods. The problem is we are so prosperous that many don't believe they have to work at all, or they should enjoy the same level of prosperity without the work needed. Or that we should be shielded from the consequences of our choices.
Combine that with the fact that others in the world want this prosperity and we'll keep seeing the same thing.
Setting up trade barriers will not change the people problem.
I think a crash has to occur before the entitlement mentality at all levels is corrected.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
So in other words China and others should get all the work, sell all they want in the US market, block exports if they want, and Americans' wanting to work tough luck. But dumping is bad because that's the only thing that effects someone, a capitalist. I think I got it.
Seemed pretty good when the US was exporting that paradigm on the rest of us, opening our markets, floating our currencies, dumping product into our markets, then buying out our businesses and resources.
So in other words China and others should get all the work, sell all they want in the US market, block exports if they want, and Americans' wanting to work tough luck. But dumping is bad because that's the only thing that effects someone, a capitalist. I think I got it.
Seemed pretty good when the US was exporting that paradigm on the rest of us, opening our markets, floating our currencies, dumping product into our markets, then buying out our businesses and resources.
Yep, it's OK when we do it, but it's bloody murder if other nations do what we've done.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
So in other words China and others should get all the work, sell all they want in the US market, block exports if they want, and Americans' wanting to work tough luck. But dumping is bad because that's the only thing that effects someone, a capitalist. I think I got it.
Seemed pretty good when the US was exporting that paradigm on the rest of us, opening our markets, floating our currencies, dumping product into our markets, then buying out our businesses and resources.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
So in other words China and others should get all the work, sell all they want in the US market, block exports if they want, and Americans' wanting to work tough luck. But dumping is bad because that's the only thing that effects someone, a capitalist. I think I got it.
Seemed pretty good when the US was exporting that paradigm on the rest of us, opening our markets, floating our currencies, dumping product into our markets, then buying out our businesses and resources.
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
make that $8 ratchet cost $99 and lets see how many they sell.
So you want the people in government setting arbitrary price levels?
Nope because the US market will offer US made ratchets at an affordable price like it had before imports.
What incentive would manufactures have to supply low cost ratchets? You are limiting supply and competition. There is no reason to believe prices will go down.
Even with the current competition from imports, Snap on and other top tear offerings are very expensive.
If cheaper products are offered, they will be at or below the quality of the imports people are complaining about.
What incentive would the US manufacturers have to supply low cost ratchets? Volume. Price/demand. Craftsman, Stanley etc tools for example are not getting less expensive as they source them from China, meanwhile jobs are lost and quality is dubious. You know, originally most everything was made in the US and there were different price and features level for any given product. It wasn't just your choice was "snap on" and nothing else US made that was less expensive.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
make that $8 ratchet cost $99 and lets see how many they sell.
So you want the people in government setting arbitrary price levels?
Nope because the US market will offer US made ratchets at an affordable price like it had before imports.
What incentive would manufactures have to supply low cost ratchets? You are limiting supply and competition. There is no reason to believe prices will go down.
Even with the current competition from imports, Snap on and other top tear offerings are very expensive.
If cheaper products are offered, they will be at or below the quality of the imports people are complaining about.
What incentive would the US manufacturers have to supply low cost ratchets? Volume. Price/demand. Craftsman, Stanley etc tools for example are not getting less expensive as they source them from China, meanwhile jobs are lost and quality is dubious. You know, originally most everything was made in the US and there were different price and features level for any given product. It wasn't just your choice was "snap on" and nothing else US made that was less expensive.
Originally Posted By: javacontour
This is where the court of public opinion matters.
If the consume agrees with the idea that predatory practices are taking place or matter, then they will choose not to buy.
The toughest court of all, and if history is our guide, we're doomed.
I have a Zenith Royal 50 Transistor Radio here at my office. I remember my father listening to it in the early 60's.
It has a red, white, and blue sticker on the back that reads:
"All Transistor Zenith Quality Radio. Quality-built in America by highly skilled, well paid American Workers".
They were already working the court of public opinion. Clearly, the American people outside of that particular industry didn't care.
This problem has been a long time in the making. It won't be fixed by protectionist trade practices, I agree, but blocking firms from dumping here is appropriate. I'm sure the Chinese do some dumping, but most of their stuff is probably legitimately cheaper.
This is where the court of public opinion matters.
If the consume agrees with the idea that predatory practices are taking place or matter, then they will choose not to buy.
The toughest court of all, and if history is our guide, we're doomed.
I have a Zenith Royal 50 Transistor Radio here at my office. I remember my father listening to it in the early 60's.
It has a red, white, and blue sticker on the back that reads:
"All Transistor Zenith Quality Radio. Quality-built in America by highly skilled, well paid American Workers".
They were already working the court of public opinion. Clearly, the American people outside of that particular industry didn't care.
This problem has been a long time in the making. It won't be fixed by protectionist trade practices, I agree, but blocking firms from dumping here is appropriate. I'm sure the Chinese do some dumping, but most of their stuff is probably legitimately cheaper.
But that's the court where you must win in the marketplace. All other courts are "too late."
Quote:
"The U.S. has a huge productivity advantage in that it produced only slightly less than China’s manufacturing output in 2010 but with 11.5 million workers compared to the 100 million employed in the same sector in China," Killion says.
http://www.moneynews.com/StreetTalk/Chin...1#ixzz2OD36qjSk
And people wonder why Chinese workers make less than US workers.
"The U.S. has a huge productivity advantage in that it produced only slightly less than China’s manufacturing output in 2010 but with 11.5 million workers compared to the 100 million employed in the same sector in China," Killion says.
http://www.moneynews.com/StreetTalk/Chin...1#ixzz2OD36qjSk
And people wonder why Chinese workers make less than US workers.
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Yep, it's OK when we do it, but it's bloody murder if other nations do what we've done.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
So in other words China and others should get all the work, sell all they want in the US market, block exports if they want, and Americans' wanting to work tough luck. But dumping is bad because that's the only thing that effects someone, a capitalist. I think I got it.
Seemed pretty good when the US was exporting that paradigm on the rest of us, opening our markets, floating our currencies, dumping product into our markets, then buying out our businesses and resources.
First off prove that the US did what Japan and China others did. And second are you now saying it wasn't bad for them if we did it to them? I never claimed it would be good for other countries. But I'd like to see where the US took over others pre-existing Domestic markets? The US didn't need to export anything to still have a booming economy.
Yep, it's OK when we do it, but it's bloody murder if other nations do what we've done.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
So in other words China and others should get all the work, sell all they want in the US market, block exports if they want, and Americans' wanting to work tough luck. But dumping is bad because that's the only thing that effects someone, a capitalist. I think I got it.
Seemed pretty good when the US was exporting that paradigm on the rest of us, opening our markets, floating our currencies, dumping product into our markets, then buying out our businesses and resources.
First off prove that the US did what Japan and China others did. And second are you now saying it wasn't bad for them if we did it to them? I never claimed it would be good for other countries. But I'd like to see where the US took over others pre-existing Domestic markets? The US didn't need to export anything to still have a booming economy.
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