how accurate should the average joe be.

[bowlofturtle]

I feel i'm the average joe, maybe one tier lower when it comes to range time and firearms.

I average 3 times a year and about 150 rounds each time. Typically borrow my friend's firearms and bring my SR22 pistol. So i'm normally shooting 9mm and once in a while 45s.

I'm debating if i should pay for an instructor to help improve accuracy or just try to put more range time in.



So back to this... a normal target ( B27), full size poster like thing. At 30 feet, i CANT hit a bulleye but i'll hit 5/10 rounds in the 7 or 8 circle consistently. (i'm shooting low and left) 3/10 will be on paper but not in circle and once in a while one doesn't make it on paper.

 

[spasm3]

30ft is a good thing to work up to. but do most conflicts happen at 30ft? I'm guessing not. I'd start practicing at 10 feet and get good hand eye coordination down, and as your groups get tighter, ease the target further out.

Practice with a dime on top the frame while dryfiring ( make sure its okay to dryfire your model gun).

 

[BrocLuno]

Accuracy is life long ambition. When you're young you don't know anything, but have nerves of steel and your heart rate is easier to control. By the time you are my age, you have neither, but you know a lot more so you hit center mass much more often

It's about range time and thinking through the process on each shot. Just standing there and going bang, bang is not doing anything. You gotta think it through.

Also good idea to get a CO2 or PCP pistol and ply at home. I nice little CO2 pistol at 15 feet will be nearly as demanding as your big guns. There won't be any noise much and no recoil, so it's all just your hold and technique... Plus the bull is the size of a quarter. Same toughness

 

[bowlofturtle]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
30ft is a good thing to work up to. but do most conflicts happen at 30ft? I'm guessing not. I'd start practicing at 10 feet and get good hand eye coordination down, and as your groups get tighter, ease the target further out.

Practice with a dime on top the frame while dryfiring ( make sure its okay to dryfire your model gun).


Will try the dime idea. i've heard of it before.

30ft is what my range wants us to shoot at. No lighting before 30ft. Its a small run down range but its $10 to shoot all day and rarely any lines. The range nearest be is nice and new. Can shoot any distance, good lighting but always packed and want $25/hour. Plus you have people doing shotguns randomly.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted By: bowlofturtle
I feel i'm the average joe, maybe one tier lower when it comes to range time and firearms.

I average 3 times a year and about 150 rounds each time. Typically borrow my friend's firearms and bring my SR22 pistol. So i'm normally shooting 9mm and once in a while 45s.

I'm debating if i should pay for an instructor to help improve accuracy or just try to put more range time in.



So back to this... a normal target ( B27), full size poster like thing. At 30 feet, i CANT hit a bulleye but i'll hit 5/10 rounds in the 7 or 8 circle consistently. (i'm shooting low and left) 3/10 will be on paper but not in circle and once in a while one doesn't make it on paper.


At 7 yards, I can typically tear a ragged soft-ball size hole in the target shooting rapidly. Shooting slow, taking my time, maybe a 2-3" group. At 25 yards, I can typically keep all of my shots in a 10x10" area without much trouble. I used to do better when I shot more. This is with a 9mm M&P. With a .22 M&P, I can shoot golf-balls at 20 yards and get maybe 2-3 hits per 10 round mag. With a 1911, I can typically shoot 1-2" at 7 yards, slow fire. Really, the platform and purpose dictates my group size.

I would definitely recommend quality instruction from someone like Rob Latham, Frank Proctor, etc. It improved my shooting significantly.

*I have honestly never really shot at "30 feet", as you note, that's a quirk of your range.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: bowlofturtle
I feel i'm the average joe, maybe one tier lower when it comes to range time and firearms. I average 3 times a year and about 150 rounds each time. Typically borrow my friend's firearms and bring my SR22 pistol. So i'm normally shooting 9mm and once in a while 45s. I'm debating if i should pay for an instructor to help improve accuracy or just try to put more range time in.


In your case, with the little amount of shooting you do, (under 500 rounds a year), I would spend an afternoon with a GOOD firearms instructor. Not just some guy with a, "NRA instructor certificate". They're a dime a dozen. An NRA certificate does not make someone a professional firearms instructor, any more than it makes a "Glock Armorer" a skilled gunsmith. But rather a, skilled trained professional shooter. They're out there, but not always so easy to find, depending on where you live. And when you do they don't come cheap. But they are invaluable to help getting you on the right track.

The value of this type of training is he can quickly cure you of any bad habits you might have picked up, before they become cemented into your shooting. It's a lot like golf in that regard. Most GOOD golf pros would much rather have a student who has never picked up a golf club in their life. Instead of trying to straighten out some guy who has been hacking up the course for the last 10 years without ever breaking 100. They simply have far too many bad habits to cure. In your case you would be far easier to get into "a good shooting groove", so to speak. Check with local gun clubs. They are a good place to start. Like any sport, you'll enjoy it far more the better you can do it. Nothing turns off a new shooter faster than constantly missing, and not knowing the reason why.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: bowlofturtle
I feel i'm the average joe, maybe one tier lower when it comes to range time and firearms. I average 3 times a year and about 150 rounds each time. Typically borrow my friend's firearms and bring my SR22 pistol. So i'm normally shooting 9mm and once in a while 45s. I'm debating if i should pay for an instructor to help improve accuracy or just try to put more range time in.


In your case, with the little amount of shooting you do, (under 500 rounds a year), I would spend an afternoon with a GOOD firearms instructor. Not just some guy with a, "NRA instructor certificate". They're a dime a dozen. An NRA certificate does not make someone a professional firearms instructor, any more than it makes a "Glock Armorer" a skilled gunsmith. But rather a, skilled trained professional shooter. They're out there, but not always so easy to find, depending on where you live. And when you do they don't come cheap. But they are invaluable to help getting you on the right track.

The value of this type of training is he can quickly cure you of any bad habits you might have picked up, before they become cemented into your shooting. It's a lot like golf in that regard. Most GOOD golf pros would much rather have a student who has never picked up a golf club in their life. Instead of trying to straighten out some guy who has been hacking up the course for the last 10 years without ever breaking 100. They simply have far too many bad habits to cure. In your case you would be far easier to get into "a good shooting groove", so to speak. Check with local gun clubs. They are a good place to start. Like any sport, you'll enjoy it far more the better you can do it. Nothing turns off a new shooter faster than constantly missing, and not knowing the reason why.


EXACTLY!

Going your own path at this point will cost you many times in ammo because you will have to un-learn it, as well, later.

 

[Ducked]

About average.

 

[Al]

Your accuracy is more than fine. Do lots of dry firing. 90% of accurate shooting is trigger control. The question is transferring this to actual practice. Which is where training comes in.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: bowlofturtle
I feel i'm the average joe, maybe one tier lower when it comes to range time and firearms.

I average 3 times a year and about 150 rounds each time. Typically borrow my friend's firearms and bring my SR22 pistol. So i'm normally shooting 9mm and once in a while 45s.

I'm debating if i should pay for an instructor to help improve accuracy or just try to put more range time in.



So back to this... a normal target ( B27), full size poster like thing. At 30 feet, i CANT hit a bulleye but i'll hit 5/10 rounds in the 7 or 8 circle consistently. (i'm shooting low and left) 3/10 will be on paper but not in circle and once in a while one doesn't make it on paper.


If you're going to be a competitive shooter, take a class.

If you're using it for home defense and can reliably hit a silhouette at 30' then you're probably good. But you could still take a class, since it sounds important to you to improve.

 

[NYSteve]

Chicago has a TON of great firearms training around! I moved to PA last year thinking it would be this gun mecca and while I can literally own anything, there are not as many instructors or classes as Chicago had. I would look at the training section of IllinoisCarry website. You have everything from force-on-force training with BlackFlag and there is an IDPA training night at Article II in lombard on some tuesday nights. Lots of other great instructors that can get you from average to great. Just need to keep up with the practice

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: bowlofturtle
I feel i'm the average joe, maybe one tier lower when it comes to range time and firearms.

I average 3 times a year and about 150 rounds each time. Typically borrow my friend's firearms and bring my SR22 pistol. So i'm normally shooting 9mm and once in a while 45s.

I'm debating if i should pay for an instructor to help improve accuracy or just try to put more range time in.



So back to this... a normal target ( B27), full size poster like thing. At 30 feet, i CANT hit a bulleye but i'll hit 5/10 rounds in the 7 or 8 circle consistently. (i'm shooting low and left) 3/10 will be on paper but not in circle and once in a while one doesn't make it on paper.


If you're going to be a competitive shooter, take a class.

If you're using it for home defense and can reliably hit a silhouette at 30' then you're probably good. But you could still take a class, since it sounds important to you to improve.


If it's about fun and games, you should learn more. If you're just defending your life and those of your loved one's, it doesn't much matter if you actually train or learn or not.

Wonderful logic. Luck is the last dying hope of the unprepared.

 

[Doog]

Good training & more practice = better any skill. Not just shooting. But if you are going to use a firearm to defend yourself consider this:

1. You need to hit an assailant BEFORE he hits you. Shot placement is therefore key to survival.
2. You are legally responsible for every shot you take. Fewer stray bullets = less problems.

So it is in your best interest to develop good shooting habits, good safety skills and good marksmanship skills.

3. BTW, when factoring the value of the cost of professional training...do offset it with the cost of legal defense if you accidentally shoot a bystander.

 

[EdwardC]

I think it depends a lot on what you want to do with your firearm. If it's just for plinking, it doesn't really matter. If for home defense, it doesn't hurt to get more training. Like others have said, not just going to the range and shooting, but thinking critically before each shot (and correcting your low and to the left shooting - which is probably your trigger pull). More range time with proper form should help a lot if you ever need your firearm in self defense. Adrenaline will be flowing and it'll be a lot harder to focus on getting the perfect grip, getting the right part of your finger on the trigger and pulling it straight.

I'd also look into one of those laser cartridges that allow you to dry fire practice at home. You can get a Laserlyte cartridge, then download an open source software with a webcam, and it'll track where you shot. Even a cheaper laser bore sight will show how your flinch and trigger pull.


btw, where are you shooting for $10 all day? Maxons in Des Plaines ends up reasonably priced if you buy their 10 pack range pass.

 

[Ethan1]

Three times a year when you pay $10 to shoot all day?!?!

If you're only going three times a year, you'll forget what the instructor taught you before your next range session

Low and to the left usually means you're jerking the trigger

 

[punisher]

Originally Posted By: spasm3


Practice with a dime on top the frame while dryfiring ( may sure its okay to dryfire your model gun).


Showing people they flinch, and how to correct it goes a long way. This is one reason I have been partial to revolvers as far as teaching new shooters the ropes. You can leave any random number of chambers empty, and when they fire it just watch the gun jump hard on an empty chamber. Definitely shuts down the "I'm not flinching" crowd.

 

[zerosoma]

Originally Posted By: bowlofturtle
I feel i'm the average joe, maybe one tier lower when it comes to range time and firearms.

I average 3 times a year and about 150 rounds each time. Typically borrow my friend's firearms and bring my SR22 pistol. So i'm normally shooting 9mm and once in a while 45s.

I'm debating if i should pay for an instructor to help improve accuracy or just try to put more range time in.



So back to this... a normal target ( B27), full size poster like thing. At 30 feet, i CANT hit a bulleye but i'll hit 5/10 rounds in the 7 or 8 circle consistently. (i'm shooting low and left) 3/10 will be on paper but not in circle and once in a while one doesn't make it on paper.


At 3x a year you are likely to forget anything you acquired learning-wise, so it's essentially an exercise in futility. At that point it's just for fun, you aren't learning anything.

Ideally, one should practice at least once a week, if not more with the firearm of their choice. Practicing fast draws, slow fire from multiple distances, and defensive scenarios are important. I consider someone incompetent if they are going out only a few times a year. Once a month at a minimum. Shooting is expensive so learn to reload.

Nobody will protect your life more than you will.

 

[zerosoma]

Also, one should be able to get five shots within a 3" grouping at 7 yards with a typical defensive handgun (2-4" barrels) to be considered well-practiced or even average. Start close, move out from there.

I see guys trying to impress their friends by shooting a bottle at 30 yards with a pistol, but unless you can get tight groupings all the way out to that point, you're really not doing anything other than showing you got lucky.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted By: punisher
Originally Posted By: spasm3


Practice with a dime on top the frame while dryfiring ( may sure its okay to dryfire your model gun).


Showing people they flinch, and how to correct it goes a long way. This is one reason I have been partial to revolvers as far as teaching new shooters the ropes. You can leave any random number of chambers empty, and when they fire it just watch the gun jump hard on an empty chamber. Definitely shuts down the "I'm not flinching" crowd.


What fixed me was 2 things. Buying a .44 revolver, and shooting. A moderate amount. Thousands of rounds a year (still single-digits though, not pro level or anything near it).

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted By: zerosoma
Originally Posted By: bowlofturtle
I feel i'm the average joe, maybe one tier lower when it comes to range time and firearms.

I average 3 times a year and about 150 rounds each time. Typically borrow my friend's firearms and bring my SR22 pistol. So i'm normally shooting 9mm and once in a while 45s.

I'm debating if i should pay for an instructor to help improve accuracy or just try to put more range time in.



So back to this... a normal target ( B27), full size poster like thing. At 30 feet, i CANT hit a bulleye but i'll hit 5/10 rounds in the 7 or 8 circle consistently. (i'm shooting low and left) 3/10 will be on paper but not in circle and once in a while one doesn't make it on paper.


At 3x a year you are likely to forget anything you acquired learning-wise, so it's essentially an exercise in futility. At that point it's just for fun, you aren't learning anything.

Ideally, one should practice at least once a week, if not more with the firearm of their choice. Practicing fast draws, slow fire from multiple distances, and defensive scenarios are important. I consider someone incompetent if they are going out only a few times a year. Once a month at a minimum. Shooting is expensive so learn to reload.

Nobody will protect your life more than you will.


I have found that training with pistol also carried over to carbine/rifle. However, training with rifle, did NOT carry over to pistol nearly as much. Also, shooting at 50-100 yards with a pistol made shooting at 7 yards much better. Shooting at 7 yards did less for 50/100.

So how did all these high-volume carbine courses affect my precision?

Well, a guy at the range let me shoot his .308 bolt gun. I shot off a rest of course, this was a heavy beast, but I still managed a 5 shot group of 0.75MOA, which was about what he was doing all morning with it, and I gather he was a competitor of local level, so it really didn't hurt my ability to be precise, either, as I recall when I shot bolt gun a bit more that I was doing similar out to about 400m.

Long and short of it, I find pistol training to be most difficult, and most rewarding, as far as skillset that translates to other platforms.