Honeymoon is over for Chevron Supreme?

[mikep]

quote:

---

Originally posted by cangreylegend:
Patman has been continuously pointing out something neglected by many dino owners. The fact that low temp characteristics of dino oils do not hold up very well as compared to syns. When new they aren't bad but degrade quickly with some miles.

---

Good point. I actually thought about adding LC to the Chevron dino for just that reason.

DustyJoe.....Sorry I won't be of much help to you as I don't plan on extending past 5,000 miles regardless of motor oil choice. That is one of the main reasons I've resisted spending the $$ for a synth all along.

Mikep

 

[seldont]

MikeP you may have the same problem I have and that is a little piston slap. I think I recall you have a mod motor F-150?? If it is indeed piston slap it will not matter what oil you use. Hope that is not the case but it almost always becomes more evident when the cold weather sets in. My 5.4 does it for 2 - 3 minutes every morning then is quiet as a mouse. Hope you find the answer at any rate. If you do please post and let me know what you did.

 

[TallPaul]

If the pour point depressants wear out, what about adding more midway in the oci? I heard that the product, Rislone Winter Start (15 oz bottle), has pour point depressants in it. Maybe that would help.

 

[cousincletus]

I have a 3.9 Dodge V-6 that has a little lifter rattle at startup for about 1-2 seconds. Has done this since new no matter what oil I use. I'd say don't worry about it.

 

[Bror Jace]

If it is piston slap, the noise seems to be reduced by a fresh additive package (with moly). Back when moly in oils was rare, we (Bogatyr & myself) noticed that Pennzoil High Mileage Vehicle oil (as well as the original Valvoline Max-Life with moly) was good for winter piston slap in Hondas but after about 2,500-3,000 miles the noise gradually returned. Fresh oil change again quieted the engine.

So that suggests the fresher the add pack, the better it is for quieting a cold engine.

I think the best thing would be to reduce the interval in winter. I know that sucks but I try to schedule my whole year of oil changes so I'm NOT changing oil mid december through the end of February. I do my last change of the year on Thanksgiving weekend or early December and wait for a warm late winter, early spring day for the next change ... usually March or early April.

Oh, and in the winter months I plan on switching to synthetic oils and away from the Schaeffer blend (5W30 and 10W30) that I'll be using for the next couple of years at least.

Right now I'm using Red Line 5W30. Good thing, too. One thermometer read -18F this morning and another -10F.

--- Bror Jace

 

[dustyjoe1]

seldont:

My wife has an 98 expedition with a 5.4. At 20k it made some nasty start up noises and I had it checked by the dealer. They kept if for two weeks and dropped a spankin new engine in it. Apparently the boring machines were out of spec and a batch of 5.4 engines came out with piston slap. There is a factory recall for that. Go and get yourself a new engine

r.

 

[mehere]

Went to local COSTCO and they are phasing out CHEVRON SUPREME -- only have 20w-50 cases left - talked to the manager on duty and said they are bringing in some other manufacturer as it was not selling in the amount they need for a BIG BOX set up -- West Texas.

 

[Alex D]

I had the same problem with all kinds of oils in my 4.6 SOHC. I tried five different oils and viscosities, no change. Then I installed Amsoil S2K 0w30 TSO and never had this noise ever again ........try it !!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by mikep:
The last two mornings my F150 let out some wonderful tapping/clanking for 2-3 seconds on the first morning startup. Overnight temps aren't too bad....around the mid-low teens I think (it was 17F at 5:45 am).

This is the first and only two times the truck has made the cold morning startup noises since I switched to Chevron Supreme 5w30. I guess I shouldn't be surprised since this has been happening since the truck was new regardless of motor oil used. Some have been better than others but none have eliminated the condition.

I'm convinced there is no way at all to eliminate this first startup/cold morning knock completely. It is apparent, based on the various brnads/weights and filter combos I've tried, that it can be minimized as some have been very loud and taken as long as 15 seconds to quite down. Thus far the Chev Sup/Motorcraft filter combo has been one of the best combos.

I don't know if this makes a diff but the Chevron 5w30 currently in the pan has 4500 miles on it already. Temps have been lower than the last two days and the noise didn't happen earlier in the OCI. Could it be that this is an indication the oil has about had it?

Mikep

---

 

[mikep]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alex D:
I had the same problem with all kinds of oils in my 4.6 SOHC. I tried five different oils and viscosities, no change. Then I installed Amsoil S2K 0w30 TSO and never had this noise ever again ........try it !!!

---

Been there, done that. Series 2K, 0w30 with Amsoil filter (or was it K&N, it's getting hard to remember all the various combos I've been through)and no difference. Believe it or not, the Dealership actually tried to blame the noise on that oil! Yep, in their infinite wisdom one of the mechanics who checked my truck when I took it in for the noise said that not using the Motorcraft 5w-20 was probably the reason for the cold start noises. He said the Motorcraft oil was specifically engineered for superior cold flow. Rather than start an argument with a guy who clearly was clueless (c'mon, Motorcraft blend vs. Amsoil 0w30 PAO? Don't tell me which should flow better at colder temps) I agreed to have them change it out and fill with the Motorcraft. Of course, a few days later when it got cold again the noise came back.

Anyway, I really don't think the noise can be eliminated totally. I'll most likely just do what Bror said which is reduce the winter OCI to keep the add pack somewhat fresh. May also add a bit of LC as well.

BTW...still haven't changed out the 5w30 Chevron Supereme yet as it has been colder than a witches t*t the last few days. Oh man, yesterday's startup was painful! Clank clank clank for a good 20 seconds and a wonderful screech (possibly the power steering pump) while the motor turns over. The screech is yet another wonderful "normal" noise this thing makes. Not an engine noise though, pretty sure it is the power steering pump. I think Whimsey has had the same screech noise in his 4.6 ltr F-Series.

May have to get some LC after all. Terry recommended a shot or two of LC in the Power Steering pump.

Mikep

 

[TECH]

Maybe you just have a lifter that won't stay primed?

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

mikep, Have you tried Amsoil's "HDD" 5w30 full "diesel" synth? I'm wondering if the more robust add pack in this product would help you in this situation...

 

[mikep]

quote:

---

Originally posted by TECH:
Maybe you just have a lifter that won't stay primed?

---

If this were the case wouldn't it be that way in any temp? The clank only happens during sub 20 degree F temps and only if the truck has been sitting at least 4-5 hours.

Whimsey...I thought I remembered you saying that wounded cat noise happened on your truck also. Isn't that a hair raising noise? That is, if one has some hair to raise.

ToyotaNsaturn....I've tried half a dozen different oils (dinos, blends and synths) with at least half a dozen filter combos and the noise persists. There could be something to what you said about the beefy add pack in that oil but at this point I'm through trying to find the holy grail. Since cold temp startups were fine until the Chevron Supreme started getting long in the tooth (over 4,000 miles)I'll just lower the OCI or like I said previously, add some LC to the mix (or both). Thanks for the suggestion though.

Mikep

 

[Bror Jace]

TECH: "Maybe you just have a lifter that won't stay primed?"

I've heard stuck lifters (my dad's 1994 Grand Marquis) and piston slap (my '95 Civic) and they are very different sounds.

The lifter was louder and would quit suddenly, The piston slap noise varied with temperature (colder = louder) and would go away gradually as the motor warmed up.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Whimsey]

Mikep,
Yep, had the wonderful "wounded cat" screech yesterday and today

. I still believe that it is coming from the power steering pump or belt. Perhaps the Mercon used in the PS gets too thick in real cold temps. I'm contemplateing removing some of the ps fluid and replace it with the Schaeffer's Dexron Supreme that's a semi syn. I replaced the Mercon in my manual transmission with the Schaeffer's and now it shifts sooooo easily in these frigid temps. Maybe it'll help the PS pump also.

Whimsey

 

[mikep]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bror Jace:
..... The piston slap noise varied with temperature (colder = louder) and would go away gradually as the motor warmed up.

---

Yepper...that describes it exactly.

Mikep

 

[mf150]

quote:

---

Originally posted by TECH:
Maybe you just have a lifter that won't stay primed?

---

Ford Modular engines don't have lifters....they have Hydro-lash adjusters.

Plus, too many Ford F-150s exhibit PS. My father's 97 4.6L Lariat has been running as smooth as silk for 206,000 miles on Mobil 1 10W30.

My 01 4.6L F-150 had a bad case of PS with follow up HG leaks at 16,000 miles (Red Line 10W30). This truck sounds like a diesel (engine noise).

My Mustang Premium GT (4.6L) doesn't have any problems on Red Line 5W30, except a need for GM Synchromesh Transmission fluid (weird, huh!).

The best all around filter for a 3.8L,4.6L,or 5.4L is the Motorcraft FL820S. If the thing still has start up noise while on teh FL820S, the problem is inherent to the engine, unless you are hearing injector noise.

The K&N oil filter causes more noise in some cases due to their version of the anti-drainback valve.

The point is, you can use any oil/filter you want, but most of the noises are inherent to the engine design.

[ January 12, 2004, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: mf150 ]

 

[mikep]

quote:

---

Originally posted by mf150:

The best all around filter for a 3.8L,4.6L,or 5.4L is the Motorcraft FL820S. If the thing still has start up noise while on teh FL820S, the problem is inherent to the engine, unless you are hearing injector noise.

The K&N oil filter causes more noise in some cases due to their version of the anti-drainback valve.

The point is, you can use any oil/filter you want, but most of the noises are inherent to the engine design.

---

After going through numerous filter brands I've settled on the FL820s.

Agreed on the K&N. Cold startup noise was at it's worst with that filter on.

After many oil/filter combos I must agree with you on your final point. Best hope is to minimize it which Chevron Supreme seems to have done...provided the OCI is not extended too long. I wonder how the Havoline 5w-20 or Schaeffer's Micron Moly, with their large dose of moly, would do in quieting things down a bit.

Mikep

 

[mf150]

Hi--

I ran Red Line in my 01 with the PS, and the noise was gone for about 4500 miles. The only thing I could hear was the clutch fan spinning. Of course Red Line is packed with moly. I haven't been impressed with any Halvoline products to tell your the truth. I also don't know if you've tried Mobil 1. Certain formulations I hear have a health dose of moly, too. Maybe someone could substantiate this?

Anyway, please let me know what happens. I finally got rid of the 01 4.6L and traded her in for my new Mutstang Premium GT. This engine makes no noise, except for the loud a$$ exhaust.

 

[Drew99GT]

The Ford truck engines are known to have piston slap issues, but not nearly as bad as GM. Hell, my Toyota Corolla has classic piston slap for about 1.5 minutes on cold start.

 

[mikep]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Drew99GT:
The Ford truck engines are known to have piston slap issues, but not nearly as bad as GM. Hell, my Toyota Corolla has classic piston slap for about 1.5 minutes on cold start.

---

Then I guess I shouldn't complain about 10-15 seconds.

Mikep