Honda FF 5W20 2666MI 2006 Odyssey 3.5L V-6

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Towed 2000lbs in 100F heat for the last 1300MI on the oil (95% Highway driving with little traffic). First 1300MI of engine were short trips in the city.

I am not going to freak out over the copper, iron, and aluminum since the engine is breaking in. I plan on leaving the oil in until the OLM tells me to dump it (as per the manual). Will do another analysis then.

code:

Honda Odyssey

3.5L V-6

Gasoline

Vehicle miles: 2,666

Miles on oil : 2,666

Life of oil : 7 Weeks



Lab: Blackstone



This is the type of oil used for Honda Factory fills,

loaded with an anti-wear compound called molybdenum-

disulfide and reading lighit in viscosity from use. We

didn’t find anything high enough in this sample to be

considered a problem. The highlighted metals typically

read high in new Honda engine samples and metals and

silicon will drop in the next sample. The TBN was 2.7,

still some active additive remaining in the oil. We

consider a reading of 1.0 or lower to be too low. The next

sample should look better.









Actual Universal Average



Aluminum 14 4

Chromium 1 1

Iron 20 13

Copper 81 34

Lead 1 1

Tin 0 0

Moly 345 72

Nickel 0 0

Manganese 0 1

Silver 0 0

Titanium 0 0

Potassium 9 1

Boron 190 49

Silicon 91 11

Sodium 14 11

Calcium 1717 2223

Magnesium 11 63

Phosph 654 692

Zinc 782 825

Barium 4 0



Sub Viscosity @ 210 = 50.6

Should be 53-62



Flashpoint = 395

Should be >355



Fuel % =
Should be


Antifreeze % = 0

Should be 0



Water =
Should be


Insolubles = 0.2

Should be










 
Considering you were moving a half ton in addition to the vehicle weight in 100 degree heat with a new vehicle during initial break-in, I guess the report isn't too bad.
 
The oil is below viscosity and is carrying a significant wear-metals load. There is no way for the oil life monitor to know either of those two facts, unfortunately.

Wear will accelerate as the metals push the oil closer to an abrasive slurry. Change the oil and filter now if you want to keep this car.

As to the oil being "the type of oil used for Honda Factory fills" with lots of moly, that is a myth. Honda uses an assembly lube of standard petro mixed with their molybdenum disulfide paste, which is why the moly counts are high.
 
I'd dump the FF.

If you want to use dino, you can go with Havoline, Pennzoil, or Exxon. All three show great results in Honda's.

If you want to use a Syn, try the M1, though I am using Pennzoil Platinum.

This is a stout engine.
 
Did you dump this present oil? Not really clear if you were in the future going with the OLM. Anyway sampling at the first OCI is a waste of time IMHO . And if you kept this oil in it makes no sense to sample it again.

If you didn't dump it yet..I would.
 
quote:

Originally posted by IslaVistaMan:
As to the oil being "the type of oil used for Honda Factory fills" with lots of moly, that is a myth. Honda uses an assembly lube of standard petro mixed with their molybdenum disulfide paste, which is why the moly counts are high.

Are you positive this mixture doesn't achieve the intent of specialized oil by Honda?

quote:

Originally posted by IslaVistaMan:
Wear will accelerate as the metals push the oil closer to an abrasive slurry. Change the oil and filter now if you want to keep this car.

Aluminum 14 ppm
Chromium 1 ppm
Iron 20 ppm
Copper 81 ppm

Is abrasive slurry?
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Good thing they incorporate micronic filters in the VTEC system.
 
427Z06 -- I would offer that an assembly lube mixture goes well beyond what a "special" break-in oil could ever do, and at less cost to the manufacturer.

Two of my Honda's service manuals call out making your own assembly lube by mixing a regular motor oil with their Moly Paste. One of those manuals dates as far back as 1983, the other from 2000.

As to abrasive slurries, Ray H first said it best here.

That oil should be changed -- and the sooner, the better.
 
I drew the sample mostly out of curiosity and fully expected to have high wear metals show up in the sample. I was planning on taking it to 5K (estimate of what the OLM is going to warn to dump the oil) because the manual states I should do so and apparently Honda is fairly adamant about this:

taken from Honda Link

Why should I wait to change the oil the first time?

Your Honda engine was delivered with an oil that is specially formulated for new engines that have not yet developed their "natural" wear patterns and may contain minute particles from the manufacturing process.

American Honda strongly recommends this special oil be left in the engine long enough for these wear patterns to develop, usually until the first maintenance interval specified in your Owner's Manual, based on your specific driving conditions.


I respect a lot of the opinions on this board (notice I didn't say all
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) , and to tell you the truth I am on the fence about whether to drain early. Part of me says a I should, but the other part believes that there must be a reason that Honda is strongly suggesting I leave it in.

I know this has been beaten to death here, but since I did all that towing I think I might have a unique situation.

The maddening thing is that I know if I call Honda, I'll just get the canned answer from the website or the manual.

Of course my neighbor who works for Honda Racing only made the comment; "Honda generally doesn't make recommendations without any type of science behind them. In the racing division our motto is 'in order to finish first, first you must finish' - you should see the stuff we tear down to make what looks like molecular improvements to engines just to get that cushion of reliability."

Not that Honda production assembly necessarily follows the same motto, but I still can't understand the motivation for Honda to steer me wrong.

My wife thought I lost my mind when I showed my neighbor who works at Honda the UOA last night. I think she’s right.
 
quote:

Originally posted by IslaVistaMan:
As to abrasive slurries, Ray H first said it best here.

That oil should be changed -- and the sooner, the better.


Try again if you're trying to impress me with knowledgeable comments, since I doubt Ray's employment history put him face-to-face with Honda engineers.

Although I have to admit that I do read Ray's comments for their entertainment value.
lol.gif
 
I have a 2006 Honda Ridgeline with the VTEC-V6 which is the same engine as yours I think except for minor modifications such as torque. I go by the OLM and changed the ff when the monitor indicated "service due" and showed 15% oil life expectancy (about 6000 miles). I have 10,500 miles on it now and I figure the second service due notice will appear between 12-13,000 miles. I have also posted here two UOA reports conducted by Blackstone for one of the members of the Ridgeline forum I belong to. One of the UOAs is the factory fill and you can check it out by doing a search on "Ridgeline".

I have read here and at other sites all kinds of things about the OLM, both the GM concept and the Honda version. I have concluded that for my driving conditions and for as long as I intend to keep the vehicle, using good dino oil like Havoline in the weight suggested by Honda (5w20) and doing my oci by the monitor is all I need.

Today's oil packs, engine technology and quality of motors, things like LC20 and FP60, etc., makes auto lubrication a piece of cake these days (under most driving conditions that is). Having said that, I will get a UOA every now and then just to be sure the monitor is not lying to me but I don't need to complicate things too much; I sleep well at night just following what Honda says in their manual.
 
So I couldn't take it anymore and forwarded the UOA to Mr. Terry Dyson for analysis. Terry told me to dump it, so I am going to get some Havoline 5W20 and change it.

Terry sure earns his $20. His turn around time is lightning fast, and he has answered all of my questions very quickly.
bowdown.gif


I'll be sending Terry my oil samples from now on.
 
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