Honda A01 cut open w/ pics

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Greg once you get your UOA back then you'll have a much better idea just how tough you are being on the oil. It will be easier to adjust and make a selection then if needed.

Short trips are really tough on oil, although the Florida climate will definitely help.

I was doing 5k OCI's with syn blend in my Jeep, finally did a UOA and found the oil nearly shot at only 3,500 miles. Zikes! Glad I found that out, now I'm doing 3.5k OCI's and random UOA's to find something that stands up better than what I was using.
 
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Greg once you get your UOA back then you'll have a much better idea just how tough you are being on the oil. It will be easier to adjust and make a selection then if needed.

Short trips are really tough on oil, although the Florida climate will definitely help.

I was doing 5k OCI's with syn blend in my Jeep, finally did a UOA and found the oil nearly shot at only 3,500 miles. Zikes! Glad I found that out, now I'm doing 3.5k OCI's and random UOA's to find something that stands up better than what I was using.


Yes the UOA will help, but this UOA wont tell me much about my short trips...This UOA had 1000 miles of highway from our trip down to Central Florida, the rest have been 5ish mile city trips, will tell me a little but not too much about the 1 mile trips I do now that are more extreme. Im going to UOA my next fill which will be PP 0w20 with the 1 mile trips in the cooler weather, if that comes back good then ill consider extending my OCI. Until then ill still do 3000 miles. Cant wait to get the UOA back though =) exciting stuff lol. Should be this Tuesday or Wednesday hopefully.
 
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Guys, really, I dont judge you for what you use...so why the big issue with what I use. Synthetic is at MOST $10 more per 5 quart jug. I dont mind spending an extra $10 every 3 months for the premium product. You tell me, If I start my car 7 times per day, 6 days a week, 52 weeks per year, for 5 years. Thats starting the car 10,900 times.....the "little" difference in flow and oil getting to engine parts might be "little" but it is a difference with the synthetic being on top, that little difference will add up over those 10,900 starts, giving it better protection, you can call it overkill. I call it taking care of my car. And the reason I use Hondas OEM filter is because they flow way better than other filters out there, helping my multiple start situation. They are very solidly constructed as well which is a bonus. I err on the side of caution, Im not looking to push my oil as far as i can possibly go, not trying to play games with my engine. I also change out other fluids early as well, transmission gets a drain and fill with only Honda DW-1 every year/10,000 miles, brake fluid every 3 year, power steering every 3 years, coolant every 2 years (all of these with only Honda fluids) preventative maintenance goes a long way. Million mile Joe did all highway driving, he could have gone 10,000 miles on an oil change easily...but did he? NO! thats funny.

Gregk24, that's the way to them! Let them play their little silly pet tricks with their vehicles at their expense!
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Originally Posted By: gregk24
And the reason I use Hondas OEM filter is because they flow way better than other filters out there, helping my multiple start situation.


is there a source of test data that proves that they flow well? Or is that just an internet rumor?
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: gregk24
And the reason I use Hondas OEM filter is because they flow way better than other filters out there, helping my multiple start situation.


is there a source of test data that proves that they flow well? Or is that just an internet rumor?


Purolator has tested it
 
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Guys, really, I dont judge you for what you use...so why the big issue with what I use. Synthetic is at MOST $10 more per 5 quart jug. I dont mind spending an extra $10 every 3 months for the premium product. You tell me, If I start my car 7 times per day, 6 days a week, 52 weeks per year, for 5 years. Thats starting the car 10,900 times.....the "little" difference in flow and oil getting to engine parts might be "little" but it is a difference with the synthetic being on top, that little difference will add up over those 10,900 starts, giving it better protection, you can call it overkill. I call it taking care of my car. And the reason I use Hondas OEM filter is because they flow way better than other filters out there, helping my multiple start situation. They are very solidly constructed as well which is a bonus. I err on the side of caution, Im not looking to push my oil as far as i can possibly go, not trying to play games with my engine. I also change out other fluids early as well, transmission gets a drain and fill with only Honda DW-1 every year/10,000 miles, brake fluid every 3 year, power steering every 3 years, coolant every 2 years (all of these with only Honda fluids) preventative maintenance goes a long way. Million mile Joe did all highway driving, he could have gone 10,000 miles on an oil change easily...but did he? NO! thats funny.

Gregk24, that's the way to them! Let them play their little silly pet tricks with their vehicles at their expense!
banana2.gif
34.gif
thumbsup2.gif



If you want to over-maintain your car, that's fine - its your money. Just don't try to make us believe that you are actually seeing a measurable benefit (ie lower wear, etc) by doing so. Your engine will outlast the useful life of the car either way. That's what most BITOGers argue over.
 
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Guys, really, I dont judge you for what you use...so why the big issue with what I use. Synthetic is at MOST $10 more per 5 quart jug. I dont mind spending an extra $10 every 3 months for the premium product. You tell me, If I start my car 7 times per day, 6 days a week, 52 weeks per year, for 5 years. Thats starting the car 10,900 times.....the "little" difference in flow and oil getting to engine parts might be "little" but it is a difference with the synthetic being on top, that little difference will add up over those 10,900 starts, giving it better protection, you can call it overkill. I call it taking care of my car. And the reason I use Hondas OEM filter is because they flow way better than other filters out there, helping my multiple start situation. They are very solidly constructed as well which is a bonus. I err on the side of caution, Im not looking to push my oil as far as i can possibly go, not trying to play games with my engine. I also change out other fluids early as well, transmission gets a drain and fill with only Honda DW-1 every year/10,000 miles, brake fluid every 3 year, power steering every 3 years, coolant every 2 years (all of these with only Honda fluids) preventative maintenance goes a long way. Million mile Joe did all highway driving, he could have gone 10,000 miles on an oil change easily...but did he? NO! thats funny.

Gregk24, that's the way to them! Let them play their little silly pet tricks with their vehicles at their expense!
banana2.gif
34.gif
thumbsup2.gif



If you want to over-maintain your car, that's fine - its your money. Just don't try to make us believe that you are actually seeing a measurable benefit (ie lower wear, etc) by doing so. Your engine will outlast the useful life of the car either way. That's what most BITOGers argue over.


Im not trying to make you believe anything...how about the other way around. My word.
 
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: gregk24
And the reason I use Hondas OEM filter is because they flow way better than other filters out there, helping my multiple start situation.


is there a source of test data that proves that they flow well? Or is that just an internet rumor?


Purolator has tested it


You have the flow vs. PSID data like in this thread? If so, post the link. This is the real test method to determine how a filter flows.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...451#Post1619451
 
Honda OEM oil filter at 3 GPM has 0.9 pressure drop, or whatever the word is, a Purolator PureONE at 3 GPM has 2.9 drop
 
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Honda OEM oil filter at 3 GPM has 0.9 pressure drop, or whatever the word is, a Purolator PureONE at 3 GPM has 2.9 drop


I'm assuming Purolator tested them both at the same oil viscosity (?). The PureOne in the thread I linked above only had 1.1 PSI drop at 3 GPM, so I question the testing Purolator did on the PureOne for you car. Was it a PL14610? (if I recall correctly).

The PL14006 tested in the thread I linked above has about the same media area as the PL14610.
 
Still have the Altima. Have used Purolator Classic and PureOne on it. Currently running a FRAM Ultra.

The Honda OEM filter is probably fine - although Amsoil's ISO testing showed the Honda filter wasn't very efficient. I'd use a Classic or PureOne on any Honda.
 
I'm running a Fram Ultra on my Civic and when changing the oil this weekend, I noted the light stayed on for 1-2 secs for the first start after the change (I prefill less than 1/4 b/c of the filter angle). Every start since, the light goes off basically instantly - way less than 1/2 sec for sure. I'm quite happy with that ADBV and 'flow' performance.
 
The Honda filter is 66% efficient at 20 microns. They could obviously do a better job filtering if they wanted too, so they did this for a reason. Not saying a Puro would hurt, but I like the extra flow for all the start ups my car goes through. Toyota and Honda (the makers of some of the most long lasting engines) both use oil filters that are "inefficient" when compared to aftermarket offerings. They seem to favor flow over filtration. Im sure they have a good reason.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: gregk24
The Honda filter is 66% efficient at 20 microns. They could obviously do a better job filtering if they wanted too, so they did this for a reason. Not saying a Puro would hurt, but I like the extra flow for all the start ups my car goes through. Toyota and Honda (the makers of some of the most long lasting engines) both use oil filters that are "inefficient" when compared to aftermarket offerings. They seem to favor flow over filtration. Im sure they have a good reason.


There is no such thing as "flow restriction" that would decrease the oil pump volumetric output with a positive displacement oil pump ... unless the pump is in pressure relief mode. Highly doubt the pump is at pressure relief on a cold start with the engine at idle RPM and low RPM use unless the oil is very cold and thick (ie, winter start-up).

Only time an oil filter is seen as "flow restriction" to the oil pump is when the pump is in pressure relief mode (ie, it's at the max pressure it can create). The flow then becomes pressure dependent. If the engine was at redline all day long and the oil pump was in pressure relief, then the oil filter would have a factor in the volume of oil going through the engine.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: gregk24
The Honda filter is 66% efficient at 20 microns. They could obviously do a better job filtering if they wanted too, so they did this for a reason. Not saying a Puro would hurt, but I like the extra flow for all the start ups my car goes through. Toyota and Honda (the makers of some of the most long lasting engines) both use oil filters that are "inefficient" when compared to aftermarket offerings. They seem to favor flow over filtration. Im sure they have a good reason.



There is no such thing as "flow restriction" that would decrease the oil pump volumetric output with a positive displacement oil pump ... unless the pump is in pressure relief mode. Highly doubt the pump is at pressure relief on a cold start with the engine at idle RPM and low RPM use unless the oil is very cold and thick (ie, winter start-up).

Only time an oil filter is seen as "flow restriction" to the oil pump is when the pump is in pressure relief mode (ie, it's at the max pressure it can create). The flow then becomes pressure dependent. If the engine was at redline all day long and the oil pump was in pressure relief, then the oil filter would have a factor in the volume of oil going through the engine.


Hmm...so why is it then on many Hyundai's (with positive displacement oil pumps mind you) have ticking issues on start up unless they use an OEM filter. Im just stating the facts, when I used the Fram Ultra, my car ticked more on start up, when I started using OEM, ticking rarely happens. Same goes for many a Hyundai owner. They even have a TSB about it.
 
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: gregk24
The Honda filter is 66% efficient at 20 microns. They could obviously do a better job filtering if they wanted too, so they did this for a reason. Not saying a Puro would hurt, but I like the extra flow for all the start ups my car goes through. Toyota and Honda (the makers of some of the most long lasting engines) both use oil filters that are "inefficient" when compared to aftermarket offerings. They seem to favor flow over filtration. Im sure they have a good reason.



There is no such thing as "flow restriction" that would decrease the oil pump volumetric output with a positive displacement oil pump ... unless the pump is in pressure relief mode. Highly doubt the pump is at pressure relief on a cold start with the engine at idle RPM and low RPM use unless the oil is very cold and thick (ie, winter start-up).

Only time an oil filter is seen as "flow restriction" to the oil pump is when the pump is in pressure relief mode (ie, it's at the max pressure it can create). The flow then becomes pressure dependent. If the engine was at redline all day long and the oil pump was in pressure relief, then the oil filter would have a factor in the volume of oil going through the engine.


Hmm...so why is it then on many Hyundai's (with positive displacement oil pumps mind you) have ticking issues on start up unless they use an OEM filter. Im just stating the facts, when I used the Fram Ultra, my car ticked more on start up, when I started using OEM, ticking rarely happens. Same goes for many a Hyundai owner. They even have a TSB about it.


In one of these threads about the Hyundai ticking, a poster gave more info on the oil pumps in those engines. They seem to be something not "typical" in the way of oil pumps. There is more to the story on the whole Hyundai issue than what appears on the surface. Could be that those filters that caused the ticking were counterfeit Chinese filters that were so restrictive that it did put the pump into pressure relief and choked down the oil flow to the engine pretty good. Without some major root cause analysis, nobody will really know, except maybe the Hyundai engineers who don't give much detailed info on the whole fiasco.

Fact is, if a positive displacement oil pump isn't leaking past the gears much, it will force all the output volume through a resistance until the pump hits the pressure relief setting (typically 80+ PSI). If an oil filter has 0.5 PSI or 3 PSI of flow resistance, it's not going to make any real difference to a positive displacement oil pump.
 
Originally Posted By: gregk24
... when I used the Fram Ultra, my car ticked more on start up, when I started using OEM, ticking rarely happens.


Ticking on initial cold start-up for a few seconds and then going away is different than ticking all the time, even with hot oil.

Ticking for a few seconds at start-up is a sign that the ADBV didn't keep oil in the oil galleries and filter. Ticking all the time indicates that there is a major lack of oil flow, or some mechanical problem inside the engine.

Does your car tick for a few seconds every time you do an initial start-up after an oil & filter change?
 
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