Honda 07 Civic Si oil consumption

[Forest]

Hi everybody, I had to take a break from this forum cuz people thought I was nuts about motor oil ;-)

I've used different 5w-30 synthetics in my K20Z3 motor and noticed some comsumption which I think is normal some oils more then others. I've tried AMSOIL, Redline, and M1 (which was the worse out of 3). I'm asking if anybody have had experiences with oil comsumption with this motor and what "synthetic" oil worked best for you?
My Honda Si comsumes about 1/2 quart every 3,500 to 4,000 miles and I would like to stick with Group IV or V.

Thanks.

 

[Bulli]

m1 usually consumes more. plus vtec eats oil , its been that way for years.

 

[Mokanic]

Not sure why you have to have grp.4-5 but the amount you say the car is using is minimal. Have you had the car since new? How do you drive it?
I've been wrenching on V-TECS for a long time and they aren't any harder on oil than any other varible valve timing setup. UOA's of Hondas show how well they run on just about any oil. Personally, I have had no consumption using Royal Purple, Schaeffer(which is what all cars that come through my shop get)and Amsoil. I settled on Schaeffer for a number of reasons but they all are fine oils. I tell you it's hard to remain PAO only when you see how oils like Penn.Platinum and Maxlife full synthetic are performing. Penn.Platinum is definitely taking sales from M1 due to the aggressive pricing and buy one get one free deals.

 

[IcebergS2000]

Does this engine have FRM cylinders?

 

[buster]

How did you break-in this car?

 

[Forest]

I like the group IV and V only because of dependancy of foreign oil however I read IV and V may have some petroleum but have no hard proof to share.(I don't care at that point) For some reason the 07 Si seems a little lighter on the pedal using synthetic oil maybe less oil drag I don't know. (had a 06 Si and wild hair had me buy a 07)

I wanted to use Royal Purple but the UOA's are not good, high in wear metals. Schaeffer I would love to use (III+ IV) but it costs too much to ship out here. AMSOIL is great and thinking about going back to the ASL (IV) Redline I don't think I'm gaining anything (after owning 6 Honda) for the price in a Honda.

As for Group III like PP, Buster and others seems to like this oil. The UOA'S look good but I don't know what's in it as for chemical make up. If I was to pick an oil would be Shaeffer's but too expensive after shipping.

Buster, I broke-in the Si normal not over 5K rpm and under the first 500 miles. After 500 miles I took it up to 100 mph at 4,500 or so RPM's. The first 1,000 just under 6,000 rpm's and 3,000 miles I hit VTEC. at 4,000 miles I ran it slower up to red line and back. 5,000 changed to synthetic and drive aggressive but not too aggressive I hit VTEC once in a while but the car moves good getting on the freeway I hardly need VTEC.

There is another thing I would like to add. I'm an old biker and Vietnam era vet I've had Harley's for years (no AMF'ers). My oil temp with Harley oil on the late models was high I went to a Semi-synthetic oil temp went down from 230 TO 200 on a hot day. Torco 20w-50 semi-synthetic brought it down. I was running 200 oil temp during cold days on my fatboy. 200 in summer much better. So I sold on synthetic oil.

Another post asked about pistons and stuff. no it's stock.

 

[televascular]

Forest, welcome to the very special, exclusive, and elite K20Z3 owner's club. Easily among the Top 5 best Honda production engines ever designed. This is spectacular, considering they are the world's largest engine manufacturer, producing about 14 million a year.

But have you been doing your own OCs? I absolutely HATE the filter location on this car. Like the engineers were planning some elaborate joke on DIYers.

First if I may comment on your post, I think you should focus more on UOA data to determine your favorite oil. It's nice to know what base stock is being used, but this isn't important if wear data doesn't support the assumption that PAOs are "better" than hydrocracked oils.

I see many posts on Honda forums about our engine consuming lots of oil, but I personally have seen very little of it. Lucky for you, I happen to have my service records in front of me so I can afford to be specific...

I consumed almost a quart of the factory oil by the time I changed out at 5,599 miles. Honda-brand semi-syn went in and I noticed only about a 1/6th quart of consumption when that was changed out at 11,048 miles. I'm talking about 2mm on the dipstick. The trend continues to this day (currently at ~40,000 miles), so oil consumption is practically non-existent in my eyes.

I attribute this to the rings being sealed properly at birth. My break-in technique was very conservative, using the throttle gently and not revving past 3000rpm. I did not venture past 5800rpm until about a thousand miles, and even then I entered VTEC with caution. That didn't last very long. Now I drive "spiritedly" and see VTEC on a semi-daily basis.

M1 5W-30 was used at ~5,000mi intervals between 11,048 and 39,496 miles, at which point I switched to Amsoil ASL 5W-30 (less than a month ago). I will post this M1 UOA in about a week. I don't expect to test the ASL until March, at the earliest. Additionally, I noticed absolutely no difference in engine response or behavior with any of the oils used.

To be honest, I don't believe your consumption is a big problem, especially if you drive the engine to its potential. If I recall, Honda tolerates up to one quart per 1,000 miles... a little generous, probably to avoid as much liability as possible, but high-revving K20s are widely known to eat it up. If ring seal is problematic, I think an obvious marker would be above-average insoluble content in a UOA.

I've learned a frightening amount of info about our engines, with the aid of Shawn Church at the Temple of VTEC. I might be able to shine some light on other questions you may have. Good luck!

 

[Forest]

Thanks for the answers. I do change my own oil and it's even harder with the added shielding in my new 07. I use a longggg extension to get to the filter. My son's Acura I changed tonight because (this is nuts) I like to change oil plus I have a nice shop with all the tools I'll ever need. I give my son free oil changes for his 03 Acura RSX Type S. I did notice my Honda used only 1/2 quart every 4,000 miles with AMSOIL ASL 5W-30. My son uses about the same in his A2.

Redline seems to be going quicker not much but a little.

The reason for the post was who was using what oil for their K20Z3. For me I did notice a difference with synthetic and I thought it was all in my head but then out of nowhere my son asked if it was possible to feel a lighter pedal and I told him I was thinking the same. I've heard others say they did and some say it's all mental see a shrink. ;-) Anyway to each their own.

Any more comments on oil and the K20Z3 are welcome however I thought they ate a little oil. Great car BTW.

 

[Dominic]

1/2 quart isnt much used in 4000 miles. If you change it every 5K you should never need to add any during the OCI. If it were the oil's fault, a top notch high NOACK volitility scoring oil like Amsoil would fix it... but that isn't the case, so it's the engine actually consuming it. High RPM in general does consume oil, it's hard to keep it from slipping past the rings over 6000rpm.

Just check it every 1000 miles. If it begins consuming 1qt per 1000 miles or more, then you should have it looked at. You're doing as well as possible for your given high RPM engine right now.

My Subaru consumes no oil - if you get tired of it, go get a new Subaru STi with 300hp

EDIT: You could also try the valvoline synthetic. I've not had any consumption problems with it, and good wear. It's a great oil for me, even if it is Grp III. Just remember, base oil isnt everything.

 

[HondaF1Fanatic]

From what I have read most K20 variants burn a little bit of oil. My car burns less that 1/2qt over a 10,000mi OCI (K20A3 in EP3, I know it is the low performance version of the K20) but I am not worried about it. As little consumption as you are getting, I would just continue to use whatever oil you like and make sure it doesn't get too low. I would also run a UOA to see how much farther you can extend the OCI, most Hondas are very easy on oil and you could probably easily get away with 7500+mi OCIs with a good synthetic in the Z3.

Nice car btw, my next car will be an FA5.

Jon

 

[harry j]

I was getting my oil changed at the dealers a few months ago. In the bay next to my car, an SI was getting a new motor, aparently, the owner never checked his oil and fried the motor. It was replaced under warrenty.

 

[blueiedgod]

I used to have a K20A3 (I think) powered Civic Si (2002 Model year) and it lost about a quart per 1000 miles up until 10,000 miles, and then just mysteriously stopped. Honda spec is 1 qt/1000 miles and the dealer could not do anything in that regard.

I now have a K24A1 powered CR-V and no oil loss. However, there are at least 2 people on HondaSUV.com who discovered that their engines were missing the oil control ring on one of the cylinders. Honda covered one under good will warranty, but denied the other because he tore up the engine him self.

 

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: Forest
I like the group IV and V only because of dependancy of foreign oil however I read IV and V may have some petroleum but have no hard proof to share.....................


Going group IV or V does not mean the oil is made from domestic stock. If you want to reduce "foreign oil", switch to a bio based oil, like RLI

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Originally Posted By: Forest
I like the group IV and V only because of dependancy of foreign oil however I read IV and V may have some petroleum but have no hard proof to share.....................


Going group IV or V does not mean the oil is made from domestic stock. If you want to reduce "foreign oil", switch to a bio based oil, like RLI


True, but RLI is only part Bio based.

 

[Forest]

For "example" AMSOIL "could" use a foreign stock? I didn't know that. And RLI is only part Bio based meaning the add pack could be foreign? If I tried to disect all that I would go nuts so I guess whatever has the best UOA.

bty - I called the RLI distributor in Seattle to let me know when he gets 5w-30 or 10w-30 in stock and he never called back. My money isn't green enough I guess. ;-)

 

[06VtecV6]

I've agree with you about the M1 consuming the most. Quite frankly, I even had usage with PP. I am a firm believer that syn blends can perform equivalent to these full syn and provide less usage to boot! The number meet or outright exceed the M1 and PP full synthetics (see below) I recommend CP products such as MC, the Sup All Season below or some of the Trop Artic (nver tried this one)...

 

[Merkava_4]

I don't think a 1/2 quart in 4000 miles is too much either, but I'd still switch to Maxlife 10W-30 anyway.

 

[06VtecV6]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Originally Posted By: Forest
I like the group IV and V only because of dependancy of foreign oil however I read IV and V may have some petroleum but have no hard proof to share.....................


Going group IV or V does not mean the oil is made from domestic stock. If you want to reduce "foreign oil", switch to a bio based oil, like RLI


Interesting because I know the Conoco Phillips products that I have used in my rig like the MC and the current S AS blend (See below) uses part or majority base GRP II+III(?) from Korea and has worked really well in my Honda Accord. Great FE and although I have not done a UOA, I am pretty sure it protects well. Juss CLICK it! (below)

 

[televascular]

Originally Posted By: blueiedgod
I now have a K24A1 powered CR-V and no oil loss. However, there are at least 2 people on HondaSUV.com who discovered that their engines were missing the oil control ring on one of the cylinders. Honda covered one under good will warranty, but denied the other because he tore up the engine him self.

That's sad news. Honda production engines have exceptional reputations due to solid engineering philosophies and rigorous quality control during assembly. It's the people, and not machines, who assemble rings onto pistons, right?

Guess those cars were built on a Friday!

 

[Andrew]

Originally Posted By: blueiedgod


However, there are at least 2 people on HondaSUV.com who discovered that their engines were missing the oil control ring on one of the cylinders. Honda covered one under good will warranty, but denied the other because he tore up the engine him self.


I have read at least one similar case at streetcommodores.com of an oil burning LS1 with missing oil rings ...

I know a lot of people believe that modern engines are better than in days past but I can't help but believe that the mass-produced engines and transmissions being put in many cars these days suffer from significant quality control issues.