Holden joins Ford in ending auto production in Oz
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they've been talking about bringing caprice PPV and SS production to the US, almost as soon as they went into production.
GM never predicted big numbers for the SS anyway, they figured sales of a little over 3,000 units/year...
GM never predicted big numbers for the SS anyway, they figured sales of a little over 3,000 units/year...
I never could wrap my head around GM's decision to build a car in Australia that they intended to market to Law Enforcement in the States. We do not particularly like the PPV but when the parts supply chain was described as sketchy and we were told there was 4-6 month lead time for delivery of cars it sealed the deal. Also, when your buying 150-200 cars a year it didn't help that we can buy similarly equipped Chargers for $4k less(each).
Typical GM... kill off their ONE division that stayed profitable throughout the entire bailout process and didn't cost the US taxpayers a single cent. And keep ramming front-drive carp like the Malibu down the US production lines and telling consumers they'll love it.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Typical GM... kill off their ONE division that stayed profitable throughout the entire bailout process and didn't cost the US taxpayers a single cent. And keep ramming front-drive carp like the Malibu down the US production lines and telling consumers they'll love it.
Opinion
Reality: Most consumers love and are perfectly happy with the FWD "carp" that is being sold, as you put it. Also,you apparently don't understand the idea of cost/benefit. It costs too much to operate in australia at the volumes they are selling. And let's be honest, the Caprice and SS are likely going to be moving to one of GM's US or Canada plants.
Typical GM... kill off their ONE division that stayed profitable throughout the entire bailout process and didn't cost the US taxpayers a single cent. And keep ramming front-drive carp like the Malibu down the US production lines and telling consumers they'll love it.
Opinion
Reality: Most consumers love and are perfectly happy with the FWD "carp" that is being sold, as you put it. Also,you apparently don't understand the idea of cost/benefit. It costs too much to operate in australia at the volumes they are selling. And let's be honest, the Caprice and SS are likely going to be moving to one of GM's US or Canada plants.
Yet another reason not to buy a rental car. ONLY thing I like from GM - the trucks, and LS engines. I just use LS's harvested from trucks anyways, so I could care less what the sell for cars.
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Typical GM... kill off their ONE division that stayed profitable throughout the entire bailout process and didn't cost the US taxpayers a single cent. And keep ramming front-drive carp like the Malibu down the US production lines and telling consumers they'll love it.
Opinion
Reality: Most consumers love and are perfectly happy with the FWD "carp" that is being sold, as you put it. Also,you apparently don't understand the idea of cost/benefit. It costs too much to operate in australia at the volumes they are selling. And let's be honest, the Caprice and SS are likely going to be moving to one of GM's US or Canada plants.
Yes, its mostly opinion... and yes that opinion includes the view that consumers are mostly idiots, and that's the fundamental rason why GM has been the biggest manufacturer all this time.
But it is certainly a fact that Holden remained in the black while all the rest of GM sunk into the red. Hardly seems fair to reward the brand, and the Austrailian people and economy, by yanking the rug out from under them rather than weathering the current economic ratio until it levels or reverses (which it eventually will, but by that time the auto industry in OZ will be gone).
Just when I start to think GM is doing something right, they prove that they're still a blind ogre stumbling around the world economy surviving on sheer mass (and a little government help).
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Typical GM... kill off their ONE division that stayed profitable throughout the entire bailout process and didn't cost the US taxpayers a single cent. And keep ramming front-drive carp like the Malibu down the US production lines and telling consumers they'll love it.
Opinion
Reality: Most consumers love and are perfectly happy with the FWD "carp" that is being sold, as you put it. Also,you apparently don't understand the idea of cost/benefit. It costs too much to operate in australia at the volumes they are selling. And let's be honest, the Caprice and SS are likely going to be moving to one of GM's US or Canada plants.
Yes, its mostly opinion... and yes that opinion includes the view that consumers are mostly idiots, and that's the fundamental rason why GM has been the biggest manufacturer all this time.
But it is certainly a fact that Holden remained in the black while all the rest of GM sunk into the red. Hardly seems fair to reward the brand, and the Austrailian people and economy, by yanking the rug out from under them rather than weathering the current economic ratio until it levels or reverses (which it eventually will, but by that time the auto industry in OZ will be gone).
Just when I start to think GM is doing something right, they prove that they're still a blind ogre stumbling around the world economy surviving on sheer mass (and a little government help).
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Typical GM... kill off their ONE division that stayed profitable throughout the entire bailout process and didn't cost the US taxpayers a single cent. And keep ramming front-drive carp like the Malibu down the US production lines and telling consumers they'll love it.
Opinion
Reality: Most consumers love and are perfectly happy with the FWD "carp" that is being sold, as you put it. Also,you apparently don't understand the idea of cost/benefit. It costs too much to operate in australia at the volumes they are selling. And let's be honest, the Caprice and SS are likely going to be moving to one of GM's US or Canada plants.
Opinion...
Reality...Holden have been displaying the Malibu as the future for about a year now...and it's carp...4 cyl front wheel drive, with the economy of a V-6 RWD...
http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-news/holden_malibu_a_four_cylinder_gas_guzzler
Reality...on the highway yesterday I saw maybe half a dozen Commodore V-8 RWD wagons towing their ski-boats or vans...on a week day, and not a single Malibu. Plenty of Commodores and Falcons, Cars, Wagons, Utes...and not a single Malibu.
Conjecture...Holden will got full import of their jelly mold FWD carp, and the buyers who would formerly have been driving Commodores to tow their lifestyle will switch to Japanese (or gasp Chinese) SUVs...if the new fully imported Commodore replacement is Chinese, then why not a Foton ?
Holden are about to become completely irrelevant to Australia, and being my car manufacturer of preference (12 of my 16 cars have been Holden)...deserve to go to buggery
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Typical GM... kill off their ONE division that stayed profitable throughout the entire bailout process and didn't cost the US taxpayers a single cent. And keep ramming front-drive carp like the Malibu down the US production lines and telling consumers they'll love it.
Opinion
Reality: Most consumers love and are perfectly happy with the FWD "carp" that is being sold, as you put it. Also,you apparently don't understand the idea of cost/benefit. It costs too much to operate in australia at the volumes they are selling. And let's be honest, the Caprice and SS are likely going to be moving to one of GM's US or Canada plants.
Opinion...
Reality...Holden have been displaying the Malibu as the future for about a year now...and it's carp...4 cyl front wheel drive, with the economy of a V-6 RWD...
http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-news/holden_malibu_a_four_cylinder_gas_guzzler
Reality...on the highway yesterday I saw maybe half a dozen Commodore V-8 RWD wagons towing their ski-boats or vans...on a week day, and not a single Malibu. Plenty of Commodores and Falcons, Cars, Wagons, Utes...and not a single Malibu.
Conjecture...Holden will got full import of their jelly mold FWD carp, and the buyers who would formerly have been driving Commodores to tow their lifestyle will switch to Japanese (or gasp Chinese) SUVs...if the new fully imported Commodore replacement is Chinese, then why not a Foton ?
Holden are about to become completely irrelevant to Australia, and being my car manufacturer of preference (12 of my 16 cars have been Holden)...deserve to go to buggery
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Typical GM... kill off their ONE division that stayed profitable throughout the entire bailout process and didn't cost the US taxpayers a single cent. And keep ramming front-drive carp like the Malibu down the US production lines and telling consumers they'll love it.
Opinion
Reality: Most consumers love and are perfectly happy with the FWD "carp" that is being sold, as you put it. Also,you apparently don't understand the idea of cost/benefit. It costs too much to operate in australia at the volumes they are selling. And let's be honest, the Caprice and SS are likely going to be moving to one of GM's US or Canada plants.
Opinion...
Reality...Holden have been displaying the Malibu as the future for about a year now...and it's carp...4 cyl front wheel drive, with the economy of a V-6 RWD...
http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-news/holden_malibu_a_four_cylinder_gas_guzzler
Reality...on the highway yesterday I saw maybe half a dozen Commodore V-8 RWD wagons towing their ski-boats or vans...on a week day, and not a single Malibu. Plenty of Commodores and Falcons, Cars, Wagons, Utes...and not a single Malibu.
Conjecture...Holden will got full import of their jelly mold FWD carp, and the buyers who would formerly have been driving Commodores to tow their lifestyle will switch to Japanese (or gasp Chinese) SUVs...if the new fully imported Commodore replacement is Chinese, then why not a Foton ?
Holden are about to become completely irrelevant to Australia, and being my car manufacturer of preference (12 of my 16 cars have been Holden)...deserve to go to buggery
Terrible gas milage eh. So the malibu is 8.0L/100KM. The Camry 4 cylinder is 7.8L/100KM. Cherry picking number much? That is a fairly tiny difference the malibu is a much nicer, better equipped car than the camry is. Also my understanding is 8.0L/100km is pretty good.
People complaining about the change to the malibu just sound like more people who despise FWD cars and change than can provide a really good reason why one is worse than the other.
And FWIW the US market malibu is rated for 1,000lb towing: And US towing capacities are generally lower by a factor of several thousand compared to the rest of the world for the same models.
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Typical GM... kill off their ONE division that stayed profitable throughout the entire bailout process and didn't cost the US taxpayers a single cent. And keep ramming front-drive carp like the Malibu down the US production lines and telling consumers they'll love it.
Opinion
Reality: Most consumers love and are perfectly happy with the FWD "carp" that is being sold, as you put it. Also,you apparently don't understand the idea of cost/benefit. It costs too much to operate in australia at the volumes they are selling. And let's be honest, the Caprice and SS are likely going to be moving to one of GM's US or Canada plants.
Opinion...
Reality...Holden have been displaying the Malibu as the future for about a year now...and it's carp...4 cyl front wheel drive, with the economy of a V-6 RWD...
http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-news/holden_malibu_a_four_cylinder_gas_guzzler
Reality...on the highway yesterday I saw maybe half a dozen Commodore V-8 RWD wagons towing their ski-boats or vans...on a week day, and not a single Malibu. Plenty of Commodores and Falcons, Cars, Wagons, Utes...and not a single Malibu.
Conjecture...Holden will got full import of their jelly mold FWD carp, and the buyers who would formerly have been driving Commodores to tow their lifestyle will switch to Japanese (or gasp Chinese) SUVs...if the new fully imported Commodore replacement is Chinese, then why not a Foton ?
Holden are about to become completely irrelevant to Australia, and being my car manufacturer of preference (12 of my 16 cars have been Holden)...deserve to go to buggery
Terrible gas milage eh. So the malibu is 8.0L/100KM. The Camry 4 cylinder is 7.8L/100KM. Cherry picking number much? That is a fairly tiny difference the malibu is a much nicer, better equipped car than the camry is. Also my understanding is 8.0L/100km is pretty good.
People complaining about the change to the malibu just sound like more people who despise FWD cars and change than can provide a really good reason why one is worse than the other.
And FWIW the US market malibu is rated for 1,000lb towing: And US towing capacities are generally lower by a factor of several thousand compared to the rest of the world for the same models.
NickR, you are always of the view "don't tell us what the rest of the world does"...in this case, Holden telling the average Aussie family that they don't need a V-6/8 RWD sedan/wagon/ute will end them...regardless of how happy the US apparently is with their FWD pussboxes.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
NickR, you are always of the view "don't tell us what the rest of the world does"...in this case, Holden telling the average Aussie family that they don't need a V-6/8 RWD sedan/wagon/ute will end them...regardless of how happy the US apparently is with their FWD pussboxes.
20/30 years ago in the US, people would have called you just as mad. Look how that turned out? But reagardless, am I wrong in saying that most car models offered in Australia are now FWD anyway? I could be wrong- but I don't think I am.
That being said, noone has yet been able to give me a good answer on WHY FWD cars are worthy of the term "pussboxes". I personally find that hilarious.
NickR, you are always of the view "don't tell us what the rest of the world does"...in this case, Holden telling the average Aussie family that they don't need a V-6/8 RWD sedan/wagon/ute will end them...regardless of how happy the US apparently is with their FWD pussboxes.
20/30 years ago in the US, people would have called you just as mad. Look how that turned out? But reagardless, am I wrong in saying that most car models offered in Australia are now FWD anyway? I could be wrong- but I don't think I am.
That being said, noone has yet been able to give me a good answer on WHY FWD cars are worthy of the term "pussboxes". I personally find that hilarious.
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Nick...read slowly...the people who want to tow their boat, and their caravan (their lifestyle) are not going to go from a V6/V8 RWD Wagon/Ute/SS Sedan to a FWD, even if it wear a Holden badge.
They will not remain loyal to GM, they will pick something that they CAN tow their boat. FWD won't cut their mustard.
They will not remain loyal to GM, they will pick something that they CAN tow their boat. FWD won't cut their mustard.
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Originally Posted By: Nick R
That being said, noone has yet been able to give me a good answer on WHY FWD cars are worthy of the term "pussboxes". I personally find that hilarious.
Corvette, Mustang, Camaro, Ford GT, basically all BMW's, Mercedes..........
Honda's the only company that made a FWD pick-up truck..........
A RWD platform is a better choice for a lot of things. As Shannow pointed out, one of those things is towing. Another one of those things is driving dynamics and why the big power sedans and coupes are almost all RWD with the odd one (like Audi's, the GT-R...etc) being AWD.
That being said, noone has yet been able to give me a good answer on WHY FWD cars are worthy of the term "pussboxes". I personally find that hilarious.
Corvette, Mustang, Camaro, Ford GT, basically all BMW's, Mercedes..........
Honda's the only company that made a FWD pick-up truck..........
A RWD platform is a better choice for a lot of things. As Shannow pointed out, one of those things is towing. Another one of those things is driving dynamics and why the big power sedans and coupes are almost all RWD with the odd one (like Audi's, the GT-R...etc) being AWD.
RWD is a superior platform, the only reasons not to use it are packaging and cost.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Typical GM... kill off their ONE division that stayed profitable throughout the entire bailout process and didn't cost the US taxpayers a single cent. And keep ramming front-drive carp like the Malibu down the US production lines and telling consumers they'll love it.
Ummmm... you should check your facts on how much money Holden is bringing in.
2009 - $210 million loss
2010 - $112 million profit (this number includes a $100 million investment by the Australian government)
2011 - $90 million profit
2012 - $153 million loss (this includes another $74 million cash infusion by the Australian government)
Over the past 8 years, Holden has had two years of profit. Over those 8 years, they're $528 million in the red.
While it may not have cost the American taxpayers anything, it certainly cost the Australian taxpayers some coin.
Beyond that, your assertation that Holden has been profitable in recent years is completely and utterly FALSE.
Typical GM... kill off their ONE division that stayed profitable throughout the entire bailout process and didn't cost the US taxpayers a single cent. And keep ramming front-drive carp like the Malibu down the US production lines and telling consumers they'll love it.
Ummmm... you should check your facts on how much money Holden is bringing in.
2009 - $210 million loss
2010 - $112 million profit (this number includes a $100 million investment by the Australian government)
2011 - $90 million profit
2012 - $153 million loss (this includes another $74 million cash infusion by the Australian government)
Over the past 8 years, Holden has had two years of profit. Over those 8 years, they're $528 million in the red.
While it may not have cost the American taxpayers anything, it certainly cost the Australian taxpayers some coin.
Beyond that, your assertation that Holden has been profitable in recent years is completely and utterly FALSE.
Australians are like cooler Canadians.
Those are some sweet vehicles Shannow, forgive my ignorance but are most vehicles in Australia front engine rear drive? I'm salivating looking at some of those tiny rear drive cars thinking of all the things i could do!
I have NO doubt that Aussie consumers are more demanding and discerning when it comes to their automotive purchases. I
don't see why GM can't continue to produce vehicles there especially when the workers have been more than willing to make many concessions in the process...and the thought was that Australia was going to continue to export vehicles as well which can increase profit.
This whole effort seems designed to MURDER Australian manufacturing . Reminds me of what has happened in the USA for so many years...keep deliberately removing manufacturing from the country and putting in slave labor countries, which while it may seem cheap at the outset, also has many problems like productivity, and shipping costs as well. Australians are still far more efficient and productive workers than most all other Asian countries.
don't see why GM can't continue to produce vehicles there especially when the workers have been more than willing to make many concessions in the process...and the thought was that Australia was going to continue to export vehicles as well which can increase profit.
This whole effort seems designed to MURDER Australian manufacturing . Reminds me of what has happened in the USA for so many years...keep deliberately removing manufacturing from the country and putting in slave labor countries, which while it may seem cheap at the outset, also has many problems like productivity, and shipping costs as well. Australians are still far more efficient and productive workers than most all other Asian countries.
Most Holdens are now a Daewoo with another badge, the Captiva is a Daewoo with that horrible dohc 3.6 V6, same as what's in the Commodore. In New Zealand, same as Australia - Commodores and Falcons are used for towing, no one is going to use a fwd for the same purpose, they'll get a diesel ute or SUV.
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