Hoe-Lee-Cow -- 0w-20 Forever!!!

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
I can (and have) beat that by a long shot with PP 5w30 in my 1.8L '09 Corolla.

Do a month with the 30wt and do a month on the 20wt and come back to discuss.


As noted above, I realize that this is a single datum point.

Of course, your Corolla weighs almost 1,000 lbs less than the TCH, so that's really an apples-oranges comparison. And EPA for the 09 'rolla is 26/34 (auto) and 26/35 (manual). With a little care (and a wise oil selection), you should be doing very well with that car. I like the new Corolla, but it's interior is simply too small for me. Again, that's why I'm in a Camry. Don't forget, fuel economy is NOT the sole reason any of us (ignoring the small slice of extremists) choose a car.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: joflewbyu2
. . .
Back to the original question. I would stick with the 0w-20 Mobil 1 synthetic. If you were using dino oil that would shear faster in Florida heat or under severe driving, then I would go heavier grade. Remember unless your car requires synthetic oil, the owner's manual assumes the characteristics of dino oil when giving advice. The only spec to be concerned is the oil thickness weight the engine was designed for (20 weight).


At this point, I will be staying with 0w-20 (until I change my mind again...

). I'll most likely keep with the PP, though I may try a comparative fill of the M1, just to see if I can detect any differences. Ironically, I can get cases of the PP delivered to my door at a total price of about $5.35 per quart (including the shipping). That's about a buck a quart less than the M1 0w-20, which is on the shelves at both the local WM and AZ stores.

 

[jmb106]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: joflewbyu2
. . .
Back to the original question. I would stick with the 0w-20 Mobil 1 synthetic. If you were using dino oil that would shear faster in Florida heat or under severe driving, then I would go heavier grade. Remember unless your car requires synthetic oil, the owner's manual assumes the characteristics of dino oil when giving advice. The only spec to be concerned is the oil thickness weight the engine was designed for (20 weight).


At this point, I will be staying with 0w-20 (until I change my mind again...

). I'll most likely keep with the PP, though I may try a comparative fill of the M1, just to see if I can detect any differences. Ironically, I can get cases of the PP delivered to my door at a total price of about $5.35 per quart (including the shipping). That's about a buck a quart less than the M1 0w-20, which is on the shelves at both the local WM and AZ stores.

ekpolk
There is a $10 mail in rebate on the M1 0w20&30. $12 for 5qrts of M1 at your local WM. Not a bad deal if your interested in giving the M1 a try!

 

[joflewbyu2]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: joflewbyu2
. . .
Back to the original question. I would stick with the 0w-20 Mobil 1 synthetic. If you were using dino oil that would shear faster in Florida heat or under severe driving, then I would go heavier grade. Remember unless your car requires synthetic oil, the owner's manual assumes the characteristics of dino oil when giving advice. The only spec to be concerned is the oil thickness weight the engine was designed for (20 weight).


At this point, I will be staying with 0w-20 (until I change my mind again...

). I'll most likely keep with the PP, though I may try a comparative fill of the M1, just to see if I can detect any differences. Ironically, I can get cases of the PP delivered to my door at a total price of about $5.35 per quart (including the shipping). That's about a buck a quart less than the M1 0w-20, which is on the shelves at both the local WM and AZ stores.

Why aren,t you buying a 5 quart jug? $22 at WM = $4.40 per quart. PP 0w-20 is $20 per 5 quart jug = $4 per quart.

 

[chevrofreak]

Originally Posted By: joflewbyu2
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: joflewbyu2
. . .
Back to the original question. I would stick with the 0w-20 Mobil 1 synthetic. If you were using dino oil that would shear faster in Florida heat or under severe driving, then I would go heavier grade. Remember unless your car requires synthetic oil, the owner's manual assumes the characteristics of dino oil when giving advice. The only spec to be concerned is the oil thickness weight the engine was designed for (20 weight).


At this point, I will be staying with 0w-20 (until I change my mind again...

). I'll most likely keep with the PP, though I may try a comparative fill of the M1, just to see if I can detect any differences. Ironically, I can get cases of the PP delivered to my door at a total price of about $5.35 per quart (including the shipping). That's about a buck a quart less than the M1 0w-20, which is on the shelves at both the local WM and AZ stores.

Why aren,t you buying a 5 quart jug? $22 at WM = $4.40 per quart. PP 0w-20 is $20 per 5 quart jug = $4 per quart.


It is very unlikely you'll find either Mobil 1 0W-20 or Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 in 5 quart jugs at Walmart.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: joflewbyu2
. . .
Why aren,t you buying a 5 quart jug? $22 at WM = $4.40 per quart. PP 0w-20 is $20 per 5 quart jug = $4 per quart.


Being the hopeless OCD oil freak that I am, I've scoured the local WM stores. I even stopped at the one in Crestview (about 45 min east of here) on the trip that gave rise to this thread.

At least in our area, the only 0w-20 to be found is the M1 AFE, and it's only seen here in quart bottles. I can find absolutely no PP 0w-20 in any container whatsoever.

Now, as far as synthetic 20s in general, I think the best deal I've seen is the PP 5w-20, in the five quart jug. WM is selling it for $20 even. I have three jugs at home, and we're running it in the wife's Avalon at the moment. Obviously, at some point, I should try a fill of this stuff in the Camry too.

An interesting (and low value...) side observation: despite how close they are in grade, the PP 0w-20 and 5w-20 each have a very different look. The 0w-20 is a very "blond" oil, and at least in my Camry, it does not darken down very much (I had used it before the GC). The 5w-20 is darker out of the bottle, and in the Avalon, it got relatively dark on the stick early (like less than 1000 miles, and darker than the 0w-20 in the Camry after 5k -- odd)). It will be changed out soon (already over 4k, headed for 5k), and it has not changed color much since the initial darkening.

Yes, I confess, I am an oil freak. . .

 

[ekpolk]

Jo: I forgot to ask in the last post. What region are you in? I travel about the state a fair amount, and if your stores have other syn 20s in jugs, well then I may have to make a side trip, and leave some room in that ummm tiny little trunk of mine!

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: jmb106
. . .

ekpolk
There is a $10 mail in rebate on the M1 0w20&30. $12 for 5qrts of M1 at your local WM. Not a bad deal if your interested in giving the M1 a try!


All I can say is this: if you happen to meet my wife somewhere, DO NOT introduce yourself. You might not survive the encounter. . .

Oh, and thank you too!

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
. . .

Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 is PAO.


CF: I don't doubt this at all. Given the challenges of brewing a good 0w-20, and the current state of the industry, I very strongly suspect that you are dead on with this statement. Not challenging you, but can you tell us what underpins your statement here? At this point, I can only surmise that the PP 0w-20 must be a predominantly PAO oil. Do you have some confirmation from Pennzoil (or other reliable source)? And thanks for being a solid and valued contributor to the discussions on this board.

 

[chevrofreak]

I've seen the MSDS's for the 0W-20 and it lists PAO in large quantities.

 

[joflewbyu2]

SW Fl. I have 3 WM within 10-15 minutes of eachother and all 3 carry a different selection. I sometimes get Mobil 1 from Advance Auto when they have their $30 for five quarts of any Mobil 1 with a Mobil 1 extended oil filter. Now I know why you only look for individual quarts instead of the large jug. It's your trunk. Just kidding.

 

[chevrofreak]

http://www.pennzoil-quakerstate.com/techdata/msds/Display_MSDS.asp?ID=217405

That's a different MSDS than what I had seen before. But, I think we can figure that the remaining % is PAO.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
I've seen the MSDS's for the 0W-20 and it lists PAO in large quantities.


The MSDS would tend to support this conclusion.

2. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Chemical Identity CAS No. Concentration
Zinc alkyl dithiophosphate 68649-42-3 1.00 - 5.00 %
Distillates (petroleum),
hydrotreated light paraffinic
64742-55-8 1.00 - 5.00 %
Blend of polyolefins and additives.

http://www.pzlqs.com/Docs/GSAP_msds_00018741.PDF

 

[addyguy]

Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: daman
Ok got a Q(was going to start my own topic but),,,i too was thinking of trying a 0w20 in my '00 sunfire 2.2l 4 cyl 185,000 miles runs GREAT uses NO oil, now GM recommends 5w30 does anyone see a problem with running a 0w20 AFE M1 of course in this?

M1's 0w20 is at the upper end of a 20w(8.6)vs a 5w30 (11.3)


I've successfully used 5W-20 in 2 mid 90's vehicles that called for 5W-30. My dads car loves the 5W-20.

I see thanks,,so consumption issues/ticking noises or low oil pressure issues etc??

can you tell me what engines you have tried it in??


Oil consumption in my car (96 Ford Crown Vic 4.6 V8) has been 1 quart in 1100 miles no matter what oil I've had in it (I've been keeping better records recently). I'm 1,100 miles into a run of Mobil 1 10W-30 high Mileage and it's down a full quart already. The Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 I used previously was consumed at the same rate.

My dads car is a 93 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme SL (3.4L twin dual cam V6 screamer) that had always been run on 10W-30. Oil consumption hasn't gone up, and he tells me that his fuel economy and the smoothness of the engine have. The oil in that one is Mobil Clean 5000 5W-20. Some of his valvetrain rattle has also gone away, and he has commented that his oil pressure is nice and steady and higher than it was before.


I appreciate this information as well. I have a 2002 Cavalier 2.2 OHV that I've often been curious about trying a 20-weight in. That new PC 0W-20 oil will be a great one!

I don't think it can hurt - how many 5W-30 dino's used in these motors shear down to between 8.7-9.2 cst in service? A 20 weight syntheic has got to be stronger than a sheared down conventional, don't you think?

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: daman
Ok got a Q(was going to start my own topic but),,,i too was thinking of trying a 0w20 in my '00 sunfire 2.2l 4 cyl 185,000 miles runs GREAT uses NO oil, now GM recommends 5w30 does anyone see a problem with running a 0w20 AFE M1 of course in this?

M1's 0w20 is at the upper end of a 20w(8.6)vs a 5w30 (11.3)


I've successfully used 5W-20 in 2 mid 90's vehicles that called for 5W-30. My dads car loves the 5W-20.

I see thanks,,so consumption issues/ticking noises or low oil pressure issues etc??

can you tell me what engines you have tried it in??


Oil consumption in my car (96 Ford Crown Vic 4.6 V8) has been 1 quart in 1100 miles no matter what oil I've had in it (I've been keeping better records recently). I'm 1,100 miles into a run of Mobil 1 10W-30 high Mileage and it's down a full quart already. The Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 I used previously was consumed at the same rate.

My dads car is a 93 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme SL (3.4L twin dual cam V6 screamer) that had always been run on 10W-30. Oil consumption hasn't gone up, and he tells me that his fuel economy and the smoothness of the engine have. The oil in that one is Mobil Clean 5000 5W-20. Some of his valvetrain rattle has also gone away, and he has commented that his oil pressure is nice and steady and higher than it was before.


I appreciate this information as well. I have a 2002 Cavalier 2.2 OHV that I've often been curious about trying a 20-weight in. That new PC 0W-20 oil will be a great one!

I don't think it can hurt - how many 5W-30 dino's used in these motors shear down to between 8.7-9.2 cst in service? A 20 weight syntheic has got to be stronger than a sheared down conventional, don't you think?

I agree,may just try it,Hmmmm

 

[oilyriser]

Petro Canada lists a new HR555 grade.

http://lubricants.petro-canada.ca/en/products/594.aspx

I wrote to them about 0w-20 a couple of years ago, and they had to say they didn't have one. I'm glad they have brought one to market.

 

[CATERHAM]

I doubt that the PAO % in PP 0W-20 with it's high NOACK of 14% is very high. PP's 5W-20 NOACK % is 13.5%.
By comparison Red Line's 0W-20 (vis @ 100C 8.2) is 9% and Amsoil 5W-20 (vis @ 100 9.2) is 8% and both these oils contain no GP III.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I doubt that the PAO % in PP 0W-20 with it's high NOACK of 14% is very high. PP's 5W-20 NOACK % is 13.5%.
By comparison Red Line's 0W-20 (vis @ 100C 8.2) is 9% and Amsoil 5W-20 (vis @ 100 9.2) is 8% and both these oils contain no GP III.


An excellent observation. As it is with so many of the questions we address here, it's hard to draw specific conclusions, particularly where there are probably several variables in play. The existence of other similar products, with substantially lower Noack scores plainly shows that it is very possible to brew a 0w or 5w-20 that doesn't evaporate too easily. On the other hand, I wonder whether the Pennzoil engineers "gave up" the Noack score to achieve some other design goal in this oil (as opposed to them simply using a "lesser" oil, and that being the reason for the Noack)???

I'd bet a fair amount of money that on more than one occasion we've been visited quietly by petro engineers, who really know the answers to our seemingly unanswerable questions. I'm sure our musings and speculation are fairly entertaining for those guys!

 

[CATERHAM]

In fairness to PP, it's generally half the price of Red Line and Amsoil which I consider two of the best oil formulators on the market.
In typical low stress (i.e. low oil temp) street applications you simply don't need the best oil to get good UOA's. If you can get good UOA's with a cheap GP III or dino for that matter, there's rarely any benefit to spending more on a better oil once an engines lubrication needs have been met.

 

[ravenchris]

Start an anonymous engineer sub-forum.