Hoe-Lee-Cow -- 0w-20 Forever!!!

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: joflewbyu2
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
All of which still begs the question: from what part of my original intent did you take an invitation to turn this into a diesel v hybrid or Toyota v Honda diatribe???

When you thought 39.4 MPG on a 500 mile highway trip was good for a mid size 4 cyl hybrid camry sedan. The standard 4 cyl Honda Accord or Acura TSX would get mid 30s (34-36) while nicer Acura TL with V6 power would get low 30s. Now the Fit pic at 50+ mpg is impressive.


I at least came forward with a real measurement. When you present some form of something other than anecdote, I'll be happy to look at it. Assuming that the EPA ratings are inaccurate, but probably inaccurate by similar amounts, here they are for everyone's info: (c/h)

Hybrid Camry: 33/34
I-4 Conventional Camry: 22/33
V-6 Conventional Camry: 19/28
Acura TL (all V-6): 18/26
Acura RSX I-4: 20/28
Acrua RSX V-6: 18/27

Need I say more.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: BrianWC
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: ravenchris
Yes...size of the weight...how many pounds will you trade to get a car you find with acceptable mileage, performance and comfort?


Here's an amazing fact. A Vette with a 405 HP V8 (6-speed) can get 30 mpg avg on the highway if driven mellow (65~70 mph). Who needs a Prius?

If driven mellow, a Prius can get double that and cost $10s of thousands less.

... I knew someone would say that. Well, all I can say to that is a) A Vette is much more fun to drive, b) A Vette looks a lot better, c) A Vette is an American Icon. What more would ya want?

Well, all I can say is that if you're seriously comparing a Prius and a Corvette, you should definitely have a conversation with your drug dealer about exactly what it is he's providing you with!

 

[pbm]

Off topic:
If I wanted something a little thicker than 0W20 could I mix equal parts Mobil 1 AFE 0W20 and 0W30 and get an 0W25 ?
Would there be any problem doing this?

 

[joflewbyu2]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Fact: you're distorting the numbers, and you're doing this because you know that the presence of the battery in the trunk area creates a disproportionately small trunk volume in the hybrid Camry. Let's keep it to cabin space, we'll do cargo separately. Camry, TL, Fit. 101.4, 98.2, 90.8. Passenger volume is where the humans sit.

Once again you do not understand. Passenger room also includes that large shelf area below the sloping rear window where you can't sit as well as others. Wheelbase does not necessarily correspond to spaciousness. Efficient packaging is more important. Wagons such as the fit are packaged extremely smart. Sometimes a smaller exterior size, smaller wheelbase, lighter weight vehicle is much more comfortable than a larger car. I can't get comfortable in a Mercury grand Marquis but fit fine in a FIT.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: BrianWC
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: ravenchris
Yes...size of the weight...how many pounds will you trade to get a car you find with acceptable mileage, performance and comfort?


Here's an amazing fact. A Vette with a 405 HP V8 (6-speed) can get 30 mpg avg on the highway if driven mellow (65~70 mph). Who needs a Prius?

If driven mellow, a Prius can get double that and cost $10s of thousands less.

... I knew someone would say that. Well, all I can say to that is a) A Vette is much more fun to drive, b) A Vette looks a lot better, c) A Vette is an American Icon. What more would ya want?

Well, all I can say is that if you're seriously comparing a Prius and a Corvette, you should definitely have a conversation with your drug dealer about exactly what it is he's providing you with!

... do think I'm "seriously comparing"? Go back and try to determine why that conversation started in the first place. Sure seems like some members here have reading comprehension skill issues … and are way too serious at times to boot !!

 

[joflewbyu2]

WoW!! A base Camry gets 1 MPG less on the highway than the hybrid. Why would anyone who drives so many highway miles spend more money on on a faster depreciate product a with a tiny trunk that is more dangerous? Do you carry gloves for power off or have the extra time to kill when it is essential in a emergency. If not, be aware of the consequences. See link below:
http://www.aa1car.com/library/hybrid_hazards.htm

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
. . .

... do think I'm "seriously comparing"? Go back and try to determine why that conversation started in the first place. Sure seems like some members here have reading comprehension skill issues … and are way too serious at times to boot !!

Nooooooo, that was humor. Everyone in this thread needs to lighten up a tad. No, a lot...

 

[joflewbyu2]

Originally Posted By: pbm
Off topic:
If I wanted something a little thicker than 0W20 could I mix equal parts Mobil 1 AFE 0W20 and 0W30 and get an 0W25 ?
Would there be any problem doing this?

I would not unless it was dino oil. A 0w-20 dino oil is a 0 weight oil with VI to increase it to a 20 weight. Hence, 0w-30 dino would have more VI and be safe to mix as long as same brand and model line. Synthetic oil is different. A 0w-20 oil is a 20 weight oil that flows like a 0 weight at a certain temp while 0w-30 synthetic is a 30 weight.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: joflewbyu2
WoW!! A base Camry gets 1 MPG less on the highway than the hybrid. Why would anyone who drives so many highway miles spend more money on on a faster depreciate product a with a tiny trunk that is more dangerous? Do you carry gloves for power off or have the extra time to kill when it is essential in a emergency. If not, be aware of the consequences. See link below:
http://www.aa1car.com/library/hybrid_hazards.htm


OK, now you're just spewing internet myths.

The trunk works fine for me. I don't care if you call it a thimble, it works. Get it, it works.

Nobody has taken that electrical nonsense seriously in years -- because it doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. Just as with the liquid fuel, the car has a safety shut off, that cuts the battery current off in an emergency. Gee, maybe I should keep an asbestos suit in the car in case of a gasoline fire too! I'm sure you have one each for your passengers, right???

 

[hpichris]

Lol, I don't even know why you're arguing with so many of the retards here. I can't stop laughing at some of the posts people have been making. My brain is hurting and I feel my IQ level dropping atm.

 

[joflewbyu2]

Do you know what a capacitor is? They store energy even without power hook up. Waiting 15 minutes before working on the vehicle after the battery has been disconnected is procedure. The high voltage capacitors inside the inverter need time to bleed off their stored power.

 

[chevrofreak]

Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak


The thing is, I have no real idea where the oil is going! A fairly significant amount goes through the PCV system and is caught by my PCV catch can, but the rest just disappears. There are no leaks that are bad enough to cause drips, and the exhaust does not smoke.

no start up smoke or when you let off from a hard excell? valve seals??

The only time I have ever had smoke out of my exhaust (outside of using SeaFoam or power Foam) was during my Auto RX clean phase, and that was just a one time incident of a couple little billows of smoke out of my pipes.

 

[chevrofreak]

Originally Posted By: joflewbyu2
Originally Posted By: pbm
Off topic:
If I wanted something a little thicker than 0W20 could I mix equal parts Mobil 1 AFE 0W20 and 0W30 and get an 0W25 ?
Would there be any problem doing this?

I would not unless it was dino oil. A 0w-20 dino oil is a 0 weight oil with VI to increase it to a 20 weight. Hence, 0w-30 dino would have more VI and be safe to mix as long as same brand and model line. Synthetic oil is different. A 0w-20 oil is a 20 weight oil that flows like a 0 weight at a certain temp while 0w-30 synthetic is a 30 weight.


You aren't likely to find a 0W-20 or 0W-30 conventional. They can be made with a Group III base, but most now are largely (at least 50%) PAO.

The Mobil 1 AFE oils are mostly PAO. I would have no problem mixing the two, but the 0W-30 is pretty thin as it is.

 

[joflewbyu2]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Well guys, I set out this morning on an "almost 500 mile" day, thinking perhaps I might generate an interesting datum point or two. Boy, was I ever right!

I frequently have to travel from Pensacola to Tallahassee, roughly 200 miles, depending upon the exact start and end points. Three weeks ago, I did the trip, when my Camry hybrid had a fill of 12 cSt green GC in the crank case. The engine had behaved nicely enough with the GC, but mileage was beginning to be a concern. On that trip, the best I could coax from the ECU's data display was 32.9 mpgs. Most of this trip is on I-10, with various side trips for rest, mission accomplishment, etc.

Today, I did the same trip, under very similar circumstances. Same speeds, same (pig-headed) driving habits, same brand of gas (Shell 87), and so forth. The notable differences were that it was very slightly cooler (averaging in the high-80s instead of the low-90s), and it rained several times on this trip, very hard, but that usually HURTS the mpg result.

And THE BIG DIFFERENCE: two nights ago, I replaced the GC with a fill of ~8.5 cSt PP 0w-20. Yes, it's true -- I changed oil myself on a Tuesday evening. After finding out I'd have to make this trip, I changed slightly early so as to avoid running over OCI because of other commitments. And yes, I have a sample of the GC to send off, and a blotter card (looks good) which I'll post later.

Well, here's a very poor photo I snapped with my Canon G10 while driving down I-10W, while controlling the car, and being amazed with what I was seeing:

So, what do all of you "20wt really doesn't make a mileage difference" crowd think? Alas, it will be about 1.5 months before I can sample this fill meaningfully (I will pull it at the same mileage as the GC I just dumped).

Subjective observations: in motion, the PP runs just fine. No bad noises, and the car revvs up noticeably quicker than it did with the GC. I've had a couple "cold" starts that sounded a tad "rougher" than with the GC, but beyond that, all the subjective observations favor the 20 wt oil.

Allright now, ready to have some fun with this?

Back to the original question. I would stick with the 0w-20 Mobil 1 synthetic. If you were using dino oil that would shear faster in Florida heat or under severe driving, then I would go heavier grade. Remember unless your car requires synthetic oil, the owner's manual assumes the characteristics of dino oil when giving advice. The only spec to be concerned is the oil thickness weight the engine was designed for (20 weight).

 

[joflewbyu2]

Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
The Mobil 1 AFE oils are mostly PAO. I would have no problem mixing the two, but the 0W-30 is pretty thin as it is.

Do you think or know wether the Mobil 1 0w-30 AFE has more PAO than their Extended 5w-30 or 10w-30 line? I am asking since I am using the extended 5w-30 and bought two 5 quart jugs of the 0w-30 AFE because of the rebate.

 

[chevrofreak]

The 0W-30 is about 70% PAO. I think their 5W-30's and 10W-30's are under 40%, but don't quote me on that.

I think the 0W-30 is better than any of their other 30 weight oils.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: chevrofreak


You aren't likely to find a 0W-20 or 0W-30 conventional. They can be made with a Group III base, but most now are largely (at least 50%) PAO.



Is that true even of Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20? I thought their oils were solely Group III.

 

[Smokescreen]

I can (and have) beat that by a long shot with PP 5w30 in my 1.8L '09 Corolla.

Do a month with the 30wt and do a month on the 20wt and come back to discuss.

 

[chevrofreak]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak


You aren't likely to find a 0W-20 or 0W-30 conventional. They can be made with a Group III base, but most now are largely (at least 50%) PAO.



Is that true even of Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20? I thought their oils were solely Group III.


Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 is PAO.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: joflewbyu2
Do you know what a capacitor is? They store energy even without power hook up. Waiting 15 minutes before working on the vehicle after the battery has been disconnected is procedure. The high voltage capacitors inside the inverter need time to bleed off their stored power.


Yes Jo, I know what a capacitor is. I did actually learn a few things about electronics having spent the vast bulk of the 1980s flying an electronic warfare aircraft (the EA-6B) in the Marines.

I maintain a paid subscription to Toyota-TIS (Tech Info Service). I have access to every page of every service manual, TSB, maintenance instruction, etc for EVERY Toyota, Lexus, and Scion made in the last 25 years or so. Including, of course, the Prius and Camrys

Toyota went to great, and successful, lengths to minimize and contain exposure to the HV current. The vast majority of maintenance procedures are absolutely no different than they are on any other car. The ones that require special techniques, such as swapping the traction battery, are few and far between, and are not the sorts of things I'd try on my own anyway. And for all of them (part of the plan), access to a sensitive part requires the removal of panels and such. I do virtually all the PM on our cars, and none of it requires any special procedures. Changing fluids or filters and the like does not expose you to either traction or aux battery current.