Highest ZDDP Conventional Oil for 2020

[RDY4WAR]

Looks like Valvoline VR1 conventional placed #3 out of the 40 oils on Pelican’s test as far as protection goes. Cool I can get this locally off the shelf from Oreilly Auto Parts for $7.99 a quart and a Wix filter while I’m at it Thanks for all the recommendations! Driven and Lucas would be my other dino choices for now.

Pelican Test Results:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/1028884-oil-test-zddp.html

As I stated earlier in this thread, ignore that "testing." It's just a regurgitation of 540rat's pseudo-science testing. The psi numbers are arbitrary rather than concrete result and have no relevance to protection in an internal combustion engine. Picking an engine oil from that list would be like searching for a fuel efficient car by researching which one can tow a 5th wheel easier. It's meaningless to the objective.

I'm not saying VR1 is a bad oil though. It's essentially just conventional white bottle Valvoline with some extra ZDDP tossed in, and Valvoline isn't a bad oil itself.

 

[Gene K]

You guys are crazy.

310/320 (Adv)
270/280 (0.050)
0.637/0.637 Lift with 1.7 Rockers
0.842 Small Diameter Solid Flat Tappets
Heavy 2.25/1.90 Stainless Valves.
Heavy Steel Retainers
354 lb Springs

Lived for six years in competition before upgrading to roller cam on 1200 ppm zinc.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Lived for six years in competition before upgrading to roller cam on 1200 ppm zinc.

Where do you get 1200 PPM Zinc nowadays for a decent price?
That would be perfect for my classics. Thanks in advance!

 

[Gene K]

Where do you get 1200 PPM Zinc nowadays for a decent price?
That would be perfect for my classics. Thanks in advance!

The CK-4 Rated HDEO (Most are dual rated for cars as well but they will likely have to drop the rating shortly as they lost the API exemption allowing them to do it with higher phosphorus).
Shell Rotella T5 Blend 10W-30 is readily available for a little over $10 a gallon at WalMart.
Chevron Delo, Mobil Delvac and Mobil Delvac 15W-40's do as well.

Valvoline VR-1 has a street detergent package for reasonable mileage and isn't silly expensive if you want a 20W-50 and is easy to get via Summit, Jegs or Amazon as well as the local autoparts and is slightly higher in Zinc. The 10W-30 is a little harder to find locally.

 

[350Rocket]

You guys are crazy.

310/320 (Adv)
270/280 (0.050)
0.637/0.637 Lift with 1.7 Rockers
0.842 Small Diameter Solid Flat Tappets
Heavy 2.25/1.90 Stainless Valves.
Heavy Steel Retainers
354 lb Springs

Lived for six years in competition before upgrading to roller cam on 1200 ppm zinc.

Now that's a pretty big camshaft. So if that big of a cam survives on 1200ppm, a mild cam should be fine on anything on the shelf.

 

[350Rocket]

The CK-4 Rated HDEO
Shell Rotella T5 Blend 10W-30 is readily available for a little over $10 a gallon at WalMart.
Chevron Delo, Mobil Delvac and Mobil Delvac 15W-40's do as well.

Valvoline VR-1 has a street detergent package for reasonable mileage and isn't silly expensive if you want a 20W-50 and is easy to get via Summit, Jegs or Amazon as well as the local autoparts and is slightly higher in Zinc. The 10W-30 is a little harder to find locally.

I bought a case of vr1 10w30 but decided not to use it until I install a mild cam in my 350 Olds. With the stock smog camshaft I'll keep running anything full synthetic xw30. I don't need the extra zddp in my 300k mile stock 350.

After a cam swap and cam break in I'll run the vr1 until I've put a few thousand miles on it and go back to 0w40 m1 or Castrol edge.

 

[Gene K]

I bought a case of vr1 10w30 but decided not to use it until I install a mild cam in my 350 Olds. With the stock smog camshaft I'll keep running anything full synthetic xw30. I don't need the extra zddp in my 300k mile stock 350.

After a cam swap and cam break in I'll run the vr1 until I've put a few thousand miles on it and go back to 0w40 m1 or Castrol edge.

I agree. I don't even think well broken in milder Musclecar Camshafts need it. A 289 Hipo or 327/350 Cam have pretty mild ramps and springs by today's standards. A Ford 5.0 HO (Preroller) or Chevy 5.0 HO Flat Tappet just doesn't really need that much help once broken in. (The flat 305 lobes were a hardening issue and can't be fixed by oil).

 

[RDY4WAR]

You guys are crazy.

310/320 (Adv)
270/280 (0.050)
0.637/0.637 Lift with 1.7 Rockers
0.842 Small Diameter Solid Flat Tappets
Heavy 2.25/1.90 Stainless Valves.
Heavy Steel Retainers
354 lb Springs

Lived for six years in competition before upgrading to roller cam on 1200 ppm zinc.

That's fun stuff right there. I've dealt with a couple of lift rule Stock Eliminator flat tappets that have extremely high intensity lobes with a lot of jerk in the valvetrain. Hydraulic flat tappets with >200 lbs seat pressure to keep the valves from bouncing at 6000+ rpm. A lot of "dwell" in the lobes as well at that peak lift number. Synthetic 0w-5 oil with 1100 ppm Zn, 950 ppm P keeps it together just fine.

 

[Nicasio]

Cheaper with free shipping from Walmart than me going to the local Oreilly’s.

 

[Crash Bandicoot]

Mobil 1 Racing has a nominal zinc level of 1,850 ppm granted a synthetic and not in the viscosity you’ve got in that engine right now.

Mobil 1 Racing™ 0W-30 | Mobil™ Motor Oils

Mobil 1 Racing™ 0W-30 is for racing engines. Its high-performance, full synthetic formula is specially balanced for friction reduction and optimum horsepower with outstanding wear protection.

www.mobil.com

 

[SR5]

Just another option for you, here is a recent VOA of Castrol Edge 5W40 full synthetic and it shows 990 ppm Zinc.

Castrol Edge 5W40 VOA

Probably a few here but my point of doing this one is it's as close as I can get to the dealer bulk Castrol 5W40 VW uses (should be the same?) and I use this in my Atlas as the dealer has done the oil changes thus far and it's good to have a baseline.

bobistheoilguy.com

I tend to find VOA’s of Euro A3/B4 oils that also carry OEM’s like MB 229.5 or Porsche A40 typically show about 1000 ppm Zinc. A good 200-300 ppm more than typical ILSAC oils.

Note: Costco Euro A3/B4 carries no Euro OEMs and a recent VOA showed only ILSAC levels of zinc.

 

[SR5]

Also here is a recent VOA of Shell Rotella T4 10W30, which is a CK-4 rated conventional oil (HDEO). It shows 1300 ppm Zinc. Another great option.

Rotella T4 10w30 VOA

Since I didn’t see a VOA for Rotella T4 10w30 I sent one in. CK4 rated also.

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I know the oil companies change their formulations from time to time... What’s the latest news for high ZDDP oils in 2020? Right now my ‘68 Skylark with a rebuilt 462 has Valvoline 10W-30 conventional oil with a bottle of Lucas TB Zinc Plus added to it. I only have about 700 miles on the car since fully restored and plan on changing the oil once a year since I hardly drive it. What oil has equal to or more ZDDP than my current set up. I’d like to skip having to buy the separate bottle off ZDDP additive if possible. Also, I’m a huge fan of full synthetics, but should I stick to conventional oil on these old school motors?

For something off the shelf at Walmart, Quicksilver Marine 25W40 is loaded and has a KV40 of around 60. The Most all Motorcycle
4T and ATV oils (except some yamalube) have API - SF or SJ treat levels. Youll be gving away power running an HDEO, but in a BB Buick it wouldnt matter as much as in a 302 or 327 or Honda K24.

And Proper initial cam wear is is most important, along with good cam materials and even surface treatment

 

[chajla]

what doesnt get mentioned a lot is that the high zddp levels in "classic" oils were due to the neccessity of mitigating the presence of lead scavengers (like ethylene dibromide) that are long gone.

zddp is a large family of compounds. it surely matters which one is used (e.g. aryl v.s. alkyl type). if i see a high zddp oil i think: they used the cheapest one and used a lot of it. there are quite a few constituents of oils that provide lubricity and they work in a synergistic maner. the level of one of them is irrelevant.

have the performance requirements of oils been relaxed lately by api in any way? do we even know what hths rates were for e.g. sh oils?

 

[chajla]

edit: there are acidic, neutral and basic zddp's.

 

[kschachn]

what doesnt get mentioned a lot is that the high zddp levels in "classic" oils were due to the neccessity of mitigating the presence of lead scavengers (like ethylene dibromide) that are long gone.

zddp is a large family of compounds. it surely matters which one is used (e.g. aryl v.s. alkyl type). if i see a high zddp oil i think: they used the cheapest one and used a lot of it. there are quite a few constituents of oils that provide lubricity and they work in a synergistic maner. the level of one of them is irrelevant.

have the performance requirements of oils been relaxed lately by api in any way? do we even know what hths rates were for e.g. sh oils?

HTHS "rates"? HTHS is not a rate and it is not associated with an API license. It is however associated with an SAE grade.

 

[Nicasio]

So if the VR1 oil is just conventional white bottle Valvoline with some extra ZDDP tossed in, would there be a better new school synthetic that will outperform the VR1 for these old school flat tappet cam motors? What would you choose over the 10w30 VR1 for this BB Buick?

 

[OVERKILL]

So if the VR1 oil is just conventional white bottle Valvoline with some extra ZDDP tossed in, would there be a better new school synthetic that will outperform the VR1 for these old school flat tappet cam motors? What would you choose over the 10w30 VR1 for this BB Buick?

Unless you have an absolute monster cam in it, a Euro 5w-40 or 0w-40 should be more than sufficient.

 

[SR5]

Unless you have an absolute monster cam in it, a Euro 5w-40 or 0w-40 should be more than sufficient.

Yep, a Euro oil like Castrol Edge / M1 / PP-Euro in 0W40 or 5W40, with specs like A3/B4, MB229.5 and Porsche A40. They are modern full synthetics with ~1000 to 1100 ppm zinc.

For comparison, ILSAC oils are ~ 700 to 900 ppm Zinc. Note: Costco Euro oil is at this ILSAC level, and it carries none of the OEMs above.

If you want more ZDDP (zinc) in a modern synthetic, try M1 15W50 it's very shear stable and has 1300 ppm zinc.

M1 lists zinc levels here:

https://www.mobil.com/lubricants/-/media/project/wep/mobil/mobil-row-us-1/files/mobil-1-product-guide-rev-31.pdf

 

[Killer223]

i think i'd be getting some of this.

All-Terrain - Valvoline™ Global Operations

The rigors of extreme duty cycles and high idle time as well as harsh environments experienced in mining, construction and agriculture can be very demanding on the motor oil of heavy-duty diesel engines. Valvoline All-Terrain SAE 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oil is uniquely designed and...

www.valvoline.com