high zddp in small engine oil?

[The motor guy]

I thought zddp isn't needed in outdoor power equipment? Like you can use sn rated oils with no issues, yet I go to a place like tractor supply that sells ope oils and it's all older SJ and SL rated oils? I mean the bottles don't have the api donut, but they're still claiming it's SL rated or SJ rated depending on which one you get. I got a few quarts of toro brand 10w30 oil and it said it was SL

 

[zrxkawboy]

You're right: it's not important in small engines.

 

[The motor guy]

You're right: it's not important in small engines.

I wonder why they always tout high zinc. Even the kohler 10w30 and 10w50 says extra zinc.

 

[MolaKule]

I thought zddp isn't needed in outdoor power equipment?

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

Like you can use sn rated oils with no issues, yet I go to a place like tractor supply that sells ope oils and it's all older SJ and SL rated oils? I mean the bottles don't have the api donut, but they're still claiming it's SL rated or SJ rated depending on which one you get. I got a few quarts of toro brand 10w30 oil and it said it was SL

That's because SL had higher levels of ZDDP anti-wear and anti-oxidant additive. For example:

https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g2217.pdf

 

[The motor guy]

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

That's because SL had higher levels of ZDDP anti-wear and anti-oxidant additive. For example:

https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g2217.pdf

I'm aware. The Kohler oil now that I remember had even more which was rated SJ. It was also $15/qt so I got the regular toro oil for $8.99. I got a few quarts for any future new engines I get. I'm tired of people using regular automotive oils rated sn for break in.

 

[Lubener]

I would never pay $8.99 for Toro branded oil let alone buying extras for future use. Those people you are tired of using SN automotive oil for their small engines are getting over twenty years of reliable use out of them, including me. .

 

[ka9mnx]

I'm over 20 years on my OPE with modern "car" oil. A couple of years ago I rebuilt a Craftsman V twin for a friend (dropped an exhaust valve) and installed the new valves and keepers by compressing the return spring with my fingers. Yes, ZDDP is necessary but not in excessive amounts.

 

[kschachn]

I'm aware. The Kohler oil now that I remember had even more which was rated SJ. It was also $15/qt so I got the regular toro oil for $8.99. I got a few quarts for any future new engines I get. I'm tired of people using regular automotive oils rated sn for break in.

What happens?

First you say that you thought ZDDP wasn’t needed, then you complain about “people” using API SN for break-in. Which is it?

 

[ka9mnx]

When I rebuilt the V twin I had to replace the piston/ring combo and, slightly, hone the cylinder bore for the new rings. The top of the exhaust valve (tulip) broke off the stem and trashed the piston. Broke the new rings in with SuperTech 10w-40 SP and the engine is still running strong after 5 years of hard use.

 

[jeepman3071]

I wonder why they always tout high zinc. Even the kohler 10w30 and 10w50 says extra zinc.

It's marketing, and judging by how many internet experts on the lawn care forums still claim it is necessary the marketing is working quite well.

 

[The motor guy]

What happens?

First you say that you thought ZDDP wasn’t needed, then you complain about “people” using API SN for break-in. Which is it?

Well I like to have a little extra when brand new, after that it may not matter. Idk

 

[jeepman3071]

Well I like to have a little extra when brand new, after that it may not matter. Idk

It isn't needed. High Zinc is necessary for flat tappet cam break-in on engines with high valve spring pressures. Small engines have weak valve springs, you can literally push the valves open by hand.

 

[The motor guy]

It isn't needed. High Zinc is necessary for flat tappet cam break-in on engines with high valve spring pressures. Small engines have weak valve springs, you can literally push the valves open by hand.

Is it not needed on engines with high valve spring pressures once broke in?

 

[oil pan 4]

Well I like to have a little extra when brand new, after that it may not matter. Idk

The last 2 new harbor freight engines I bought both got super tech 10w-30 synthetic 10,000 mile oil for break in.
I'm thinking the 1 to 3hr break in oil change is more important than using a higher zinc oil and just running it.

 

[The motor guy]

The last 2 new harbor freight engines I bought both got super tech 10w-30 synthetic 10,000 mile oil for break in.
I'm thinking the 1 to 3hr break in oil change is more important than using a higher zinc oil and just running it.

Kawasaki recommends the first change at 8hrs

 

[kschachn]

Is it not needed on engines with high valve spring pressures once broke in?

What engine do you have that has high valve spring pressures?

 

[MolaKule]

Is it not needed on engines with high valve spring pressures once broke in?

The point is, small OPE engines have low valve spring pressure, so why concern yourself with engines with high valve spring pressures? Engines with low valve spring pressure such as OP equipment don't need high ZDDP oils.

I too run synthetic modern vehicle engine oils in all of my OPE equipment and have never had to do a rebuild.

 

[The motor guy]

So that's all it is? It's solely for the drive train?

 

[kschachn]

So that's all it is? It's solely for the drive train?

Drive train? What drive train are you talking about?

If you'd take some time to learn the basics of engine operation you might have fewer questions such as this.

 

[The motor guy]

Drive train? What drive train are you talking about?

If you'd take some time to learn the basics of engine operation you might have fewer questions such as this.

You still have gears and need anti wear additives that control things like piston scuffing. Zddp was just a cheap and effect additive back in the day. Not everyone trusts the new stuff and frankly it hasn't been around long enough to prove of its probablamatic? What about my cummins? It has high valve train pressures and they still shoved low zddp oils down our throats in the diesel world.